Gearbox Issues / TD5

Hi Guys,

I got my beloved 90 a couple of weeks ago from a decent, reputable 4x4 specialist, but now I've got used to driving it have noticed that the gears seem to grate a little when shifting up into second, and more so into third. It happens when I press the clutch but don't let the revs drop off. It's fine if I drive really steady, but the something doesn't seem quite right... I'd heard some people have had problems with shifting into second and third gear, so it this something I should worry about and should I get in touch with the garage where I bought it from before it's too late (it comes with a 3 month warranty)? Any advice on what the issue might be is most welcome and will give me a bit of knowledge when getting in touch with them.

Thanks,
Steve

does it grate if you do a slow shift....they tend to want you to do a grandad shift, anything faster and it grates, specially 1st to 2nd to 3rd

If I take it *really* steady, and let the revs drop off, it shifts fine. But if I try and get it into the next gear before that, that's when it grates. It's my first Landy so I'm not sure what is and isn't the norm (knowing they're not renowned for the refinement!)

ok....my td5 needs about a 2 to 3 second shift from 1st to 2nd and about half that for 2nd to 3rd......been like that since brand new and now has 320,000 on the clock. i own a whole bunch of td5's and they all the same. if yours is painfully slow to change without grating then it means either yer clutch is not dis-engaging properly or yer synchros are in need of replacing.

The TD5 gearboxes (R380) are notorious for being grindy, and generally noisier than say a car !!

Mine started making 'noises' at about 50k, it's now clocked 97k and has NOT got any worse (or any better)

I do now regulary change the oil, (every 15 - 20k) using the correct Texaco MTF94 oil

disco_steve said:

The TD5 gearboxes (R380) are notorious for being grindy, and generally noisier than say a car !!

Mine started making 'noises' at about 50k, it's now clocked 97k and has NOT got any worse (or any better)

I do now regulary change the oil, (every 15 - 20k) using the correct Texaco MTF94 oil

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stuff a few tubes of Mo-Di in there....gets rid of the whine

Bushtoy said:

stuff a few tubes of Mo-Di in there....gets rid of the whine

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Hmm sounds a good idea, I'll give that a try, thanks Bush

(only thing is, the R380 seems very sensitive to the viscosity of the oil, I once tried to save on teh cost of oil and filled with a cheaper, but slightly thicker oil, and the change quality was awful, especially when cold, couldn't get it into 1st until it warmed up a bit, so . . . humble pie and back to using MTF94

Bushtoy said:

stuff a few tubes of Mo-Di in there....gets rid of the whine

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used to be a no-no in gearboxes - coz Mo-Di reduces the effectiveness of the synchros.

The Mad Hat Man said:

used to be a no-no in gearboxes - coz Mo-Di reduces the effectiveness of the synchros.

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have used it for years with no prob.....put it in me diffs as well

yup diffs - no probs - twoz only a prob where yu need the friction to assist gear selection, and Mo-Di reduced the friction to such a level the synchros wouldnt work properly..

Bushtoy said:

stuff a few tubes of Mo-Di in there....gets rid of the whine

Click to expand...

That will also make the grating WORSE because the molybdenum di-sulphide will over-lubricate the friction faces of the synchromesh rings.

BushBoy is high on theory, low on practical experience.

The TD5 gearbox is a BIG gearbox, and so it takes more TIME to synchronise gear speeds both up and down the box. If you heave the lever fast, you WILL "beat the synchromesh" making that bad grinding noise which is you mangling the dog-clutch teeth off the synchro hub and the speed gear.

Learn to semi-double de-clutch and match engine speed.

Going from 1st gear to second at any speed requires the engine speed to drop by about HALF. From 2nd to 1st you need to DOUBLE engine revs.

From 2nd to 3rd drop revs by about a third.
From 3rd to 4th drop revs by about a quarter.
From 4th to 5th drop revs by about a fifth.

Practice .....

I did my HGV driving in trucks with NO synchromesh and "stop-clutches".
That was fun.

CharlesY

i learnt that on the works td5's

Fits in with the whole ethos of drivinga Disco (or depender with a R380) it's has to almost be a 'lazy drive' . . . I certainly have learnt that you cannot 'race through the gears' cos all that you do is baulk

Another 'tip' when stationary, and you find it 'difficult' to engage 1st, select 2nd and then back it to 1st, it will usually slide in easily !!

CharlesY said:

The TD5 gearbox is a BIG gearbox, and so it takes more TIME to synchronise gear speeds both up and down the box. If you heave the lever fast, you WILL "beat the synchromesh" making that bad grinding noise which is you mangling the dog-clutch teeth off the synchro hub and the speed gear.

Learn to semi-double de-clutch and match engine speed.

Going from 1st gear to second at any speed requires the engine speed to drop by about HALF. From 2nd to 1st you need to DOUBLE engine revs.

From 2nd to 3rd drop revs by about a third.
From 3rd to 4th drop revs by about a quarter.
From 4th to 5th drop revs by about a fifth.

Practice ..... CharlesY

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Nice one, thanks a lot for the advice. Clutchless-shifting on my motorbike gives me a good idea of the engine speeds etc, but understanding the vehicle helps a lot.

YorkshireSteve said:

Nice one, thanks a lot for the advice. Clutchless-shifting on my motorbike gives me a good idea of the engine speeds etc, but understanding the vehicle helps a lot.

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Excellent!

Motorbike gearboxes are almost all CRASH gearboxes, no synchromesh at all.
They get away with it because they make all the pieces very small, and they use a small diameter multi-plate clutch. All these things reduce the rotational momentum, and make it faster to slow down, and faster to speed up, and reduces the damaging effects of crashing into gears.

We MUST remember that the synchromesh cones are little "cone clutches" barely 3 or 4 inches in diameter, and they have to slow down or speed up all the bits between that speed gear up to and including the large diameter clutch centre plate. They wear out quicker the more you work them.

Moral: change gear in sweet time, and the sweetest time, up and down, is learning to do it without using the clutch at all, and using NO force either.

Ain't that the plain truth, my apprentice, Discomania?

CharlesY

it int that hard, i taught me ex how to drive without a clutch. and i used to do it all the time just to show orf. jings! even anthony can do it