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Freelander 1 Freelander 1 TD4 starting woes!!

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by Cadnant1962, Sep 22, 2021.

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  1. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Hi all
    I've been trawling through a lot of old threads on the issue non starting TD4S. I have a 2002 td4 which initially had problems running ( loss of power, running as if on three cylinders only, grey blue smoke etc). Has only done a genuine 64,000 miles and had two owners before me. Can’t ask previous owner as he is currently dead too! However it now won't start at all.
    Error codes include:
    Cylinder Balance Control
    MAF faulty
    Camshaft sensor faulty
    Boost sensor faulty
    Air temp sensor faulty (part of the MAF on this model)

    Here is the list of things I've tried so far:
    1. New in-tank pump, new lift pump and filter.
    2. New re-manufactured injectors X 4 from PF Jones.
    3. Tested camshaft sensor by swapping it into my RR TD6 - all good and TD6 one made no difference to Freelander.
    4. Replaced crankshaft sensor (for the fun of it) at least I know how to get the starter out now.
    5. Tested injector loom for current (all good)
    6. Cleaned a lot of crud out out inlet manifold and blocked off EGR.
    7. Replaced crankcase oil filter with new BMW replacement.
    8. Tested MAF by swapping into RR TD6 and all good.
    9. Replaced HP fuel regulator seals (seeing as the starter was already out)
    10. Checked all sensor connections for relevant changes in voltage etc at ign on, idle (of sorts) and at 2000 rpm (readings posted below at idle)
    11. Pulled a lot of hair out, sworn at wife and cried a bit.

    For completeness here are the readings when cranking.
    Fuel pressure (low side) - 416.7
    Airflow - 514.5 mg/str
    Engine idle - 790 rpm
    Fuel pressure regulator current - 0.68
    High pressure rail - 28658 kPa
    Manifold pressure - 101.7 kPa
    Capacitor 1 - 77.34V (I presume this means the one in the ECU)
    Sensor supply - 5.01V (both sensor 1 and 2)
    When it was running on the old injectors there was fuelling compensation all over the place with three of the injectors showing considerable compensation going on.
    I have basically run out of things to test, change, clean, throw at dog etc.
    I am out of ideas now and on the verge of a breakdown so PLEEEEEEAAASE someone out there must have some ideas (not including scrap the car!!!).

    sorry this is a bit like War and Peace but I’ve been working like a dog on this and getting now where.
     
  2. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried to start it with ease start?
     
  3. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Not yet but one of my next moves. I’m just at a loss as to what it could be given everything done so far.
    Easy start is great for starting them once
     
  4. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking there's an injector issue, pulling the rail pressure down.
    Getting it to spin faster on easy start might well overcome the loss of pressure, allowing it to run.
     
  5. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Going to give it a try tomorrow but they are all new refurbs. I’m wondering about compression but would not know how to do a compression test on a diesel. On cranking the rail pressure is pretty much up at the 28 - 30 k mark which I was thinking was about right. When it was running the rail pressure would shoot up on acceleration too. Am I right in thinking that the system self bleeds after interference like fitting new pumps etc?
     
  6. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I can offer no advice, but following with interest and moral support.
     
  7. andyfreelandy

    andyfreelandy Well-Known Member

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    It would help knowing what you did to change from a misfire to not starting at all, then a logical progression to the fault finding.
     
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  8. Ian M in France

    Ian M in France Well-Known Member

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    Is it still coming up with fault on camshaft pulley? If so do not think ECU will allow the injectors to fire with this fault, you may have tried it on another engine and it worked and replace it, but if the fault is still there then you still have a problem, I changed the engine in my Citroen van and had fault crankshaft sensor and it would not start, it turned out to be the crankshaft pulley was bent, not saying this is the problem but what it taught me is to read what the diagnostics tells me, check the connections to it check to wiring back as far as you can, until you clear this fault I do not think it will start, but not expert on TD4 and someone who knows more about the TD4 engine might know better
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  9. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    The car originally suddenly lost power and limped home as if on three cylinders. Once home the car started a couple of times which is when I took the running readings. Battery failed after continuous difficult starting and was taking out to recharge overnight. Next day with fresh battery car would not start, even with a high power booster pack. Low side fuel pressure was suggested as a weakness and possible reason so pumps and filter changed. I discussed the fuelling compensation figs with a professional mechanic who took a look at the original injectors and declared them as failed (3 of them). New injectors installed. On cranking my reader through up the failed sensors and despite testing as being ok, I replaced crank, cam and MAF sensors. Still no sign of life. I am now considering two possibilities: compression although there is no sign of head gasket issues or horrendous noises ; alternatively have started to wonder if the actual apparatus that tells me the sensors are malfunctioning is actually the culprit - the exuberant itself. But before I throw another couple of hundred quid at it for replacement used ecu, immobiliser and key fobs, I want to rule anything else out. The immobiliser had been a thought but the code reader shows clearly when the car is mobilised or immobilised.
    Bit of a head scratcher really
     
  10. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Thanks Ian.
    I have tracked back the connections right to the ecu and had the ecu out and re plugged everything back in securely. I have ordered another new camshaft sensor in case there is an issue there as all the signs are it is related to that but the one that is in there now works fine on my RR and the RR sensor when placed in the td4 doesn’t allow the cat to start but when swapped back to its original TD6 engine worked fine again. Last resort to start stripping a perfectly good M57 engine to fix yer M47 engine
     
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  11. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Diagnostics only say camshaft sensor malfunction rather than faulty
     
  12. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Is there a difference?
     
  13. Ian M in France

    Ian M in France Well-Known Member

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    If you clear all the faults does this come back up after cranking the engine?
     
  14. Ian M in France

    Ian M in France Well-Known Member

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    On ebay you can buy a ECU for not a lot £20 to £40 can you just change the ECU or do you have to change the key set and all ?
    if just ECU might be handy to have a spare? I have for my td5 but all you need to do is change it and it will work , then reprogram injector codes
     
  15. Arctic2

    Arctic2 Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried swapping over the fuel rail sensor ? also try starting it with the MAF unplugged, before these give it that sniff of easy start, another thing is to make sure the battery is fully charged. HPFP leak maybe ? i presume new copper washers were fitted when the injectors were swapped out, and the collars put back on properly not upside down.
     
  16. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Hi all, thanks for replies.
    Still won’t start even with easy start
    Fault code reader still comes up with camshaft sensor issues but interestingly it’s a new code describing a cam sensor ‘malfunction’ this time rather fault.
    I have managed to narrow it down to the ecu NOT sending signal to the injectors - on cranking there is no voltage in the harness though there is with ign on but not cranking , that said that voltage is pretty small at about 1 volt. I have ordered yet another cam sensor and having poured over the wiring diagrams and finding the pins relevant to the sensor and the injectors I have tested here for vltge but still the same as it is the other end. I am beginning to think it is a fault with the ecu itself and may try a used ecu/immobiliser/key slug deal off of flea bay.
    How it went from running rough to not running at all happened after taking the old injectors out, cleaning and refitting but I can’t see what that would do to the ecu?
    I will keep you informed of any progress.
    On another note I’ve noticed some oil in the turbo pipes either side of the intercooler. It is hardly any but is there a tolerance ?
     
  17. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Does it fire and stop, once the easystart is burnt up?
     
  18. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Coughed a bit with easy start but didn’t actually fire up.
    Had to set flealander to one side this weekend, due to the Rangey needing some attention for its mot tomorrow. Just the usual useless handbrake problem, so what that it needs about twelve clicks to hold instead of six. I’ll treat it to new shoes next year.
     
  19. Cadnant1962

    Cadnant1962 Member

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    Hi Ian M. Injectors don’t need coding in on a Freelander 1 BUT the immobiliser and key slugs do which is why it’s easier to buy a whole set. Saying that getting to the immobiliser is a lot more difficult than it is on Range Rover ……..oh yes been down that route when the key wouldn’t turn, but that’s a different story for another day with a simple easy fix involving a magnet and cotton buds!!
     
  20. Alteredtech

    Alteredtech Member

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    Hi

    Check the battery, I presume you already tried to jump start the car.

    If you changed the lower fuel pump, you need to bleed the air, by putting the key on start for 30 seconds. Wait 5 minutes than try another time, till the engine start.

    It could be the fuel pressure regulator, try to disconnect it, see if you can start.

    Also I assume there is no strange noise why trying to start.

    The engine should start ! Keep trying !
     
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