Follow-Up Project or Serious Modification on Existing One?

Hi there,

for those that followed so far, I did a rolling restoration on a 1982 RRC, 3.5 V8 obviously. The goal was to get a car that can be taken on 2 - 3 week camping trips with a family of four to, say, remoter places. And to have a car to go offroading. The RRC performs remarkably well on the second part. We did a one week trip to Normandie, without my better half, recently as a shake down cruise for the first part.

Well, as a camper-like thingy a RRC isn't the perfect choice. I knew that, but the intended sleeping arrangement, two in a ground tent, two in the car, isn't working with all th cooking going on. So there we are talkin about a roof top tent and moving the bulky stuff from the roof in the trunk. No big deal. What does suck so, is that you cannot sit in the car, e.g. in bad weather. Based on my VW California experience, bad weather always sucks, so again, that shouldn't be much of a problem.

Which brings us to the elephant in the room: fuel consumption. With a roof rack, bullbar (easy to get rid of) and MT tires she's drinking around 19 - 20 ltres per 100 KM at highway speed (I guess the 4-speed gearbox doesn't help neither...). And THAT really makes her unusable for anything longer than a week-end trip, and somehow not suitable for our needs.

As I see it, I have two options now: replace her with another car (either Diesel RRC or Disco 1/2) or swap the original V8 out for a Diesel and 5 speed gearbox. I am really torn now, I like the car as it is, and having the original engine after 40 years in good running condition now, I am reluctant to do a Diesel conversion. On the other hand, I am not *such* a purist when it comes to classic cars, I want to use it for my needs. Plus, the wiring is nightmare, throwing a Diesel Engine in there would be a great opportunity to replace the whole wiring loom. A diesel conversion would leave me with an early four door RRC without mechancal or rust issues.

Or, I sell her to someone who takes good care of her as she is and invest in a replacement. There, I am leaning towards a Disco 1, due to the tailgate and increased head space. Also, having the option to fit two jump seats in a third row makes it easier to put a true comping solution in the back. Plus, Disco 1s aren't that expensive, at least not yet. That would leave me so without a car I spent a lot of time on.

So, what are your thoughts? What would you do? In case you are wondering, the RRC we are talking about is, tentatively, up for sale right now. Because with the V8, I simply cannot use her as intended.

Have a nice week-end everyone!

Engine/transmission out a disco 1 should fit.
No real changes to the loom as should be same plugs etc.
Use the disco rad etc.
You only have to change the engine mounts.

may least you get to keep the RRC

Yeah, I am just afraid of the work. My heart says keep it, and put a 200 TDI out of a cheap Disco in there. My head says get a good Disco, spare myself the hassle and start from scratch. Overall, I do prefer the RRC, no electronics. And mine has no rust. Everything else I can do myself in my drive way. Except the engine swap.

Then there's the money question, so. A good Disco 1 might end up cheaper overall. I guess I have to sleep this over some.

hef19898 said:

Yeah, I am just afraid of the work. My heart says keep it, and put a 200 TDI out of a cheap Disco in there. My head says get a good Disco, spare myself the hassle and start from scratch. Overall, I do prefer the RRC, no electronics. And mine has no rust. Everything else I can do myself in my drive way. Except the engine swap.

Then there's the money question, so. A good Disco 1 might end up cheaper overall. I guess I have to sleep this over some.

Click to expand...

Just price up the engine & box up. If this works out cheaper.
Think props are the same length

Does you radiator have the oil cooler?

Yep mine has an oil cooler. There are some interesting Discos for sale right now over hear. Mid nineties, all the mods you can want incl. camping conversions. Around 16-18k. Or Disco 1s for around 3 to 4 k with running engines, but all kind of other issues. The first would be nice alternative the second a nice donor car. Or I go to Italy for some RRC diesel. They seem to be affordable down there.

Well I guess just take a look at a Disco first. I have time after all. A 200 or 300 TDi would be nice so.

A 300Tdi would be better. More availability of engines, complete vehicles and parts. 200Tdi engines are getting a bit scarce. If you change the engine and gearbox, you already know the vehicle.

If I do pull out a 300 TDi from a Disco, gearbox and engine will be a straight swop, except for the engine mounts right? Because if so, that seems like the preferred course of action. I know the car, I like the RRCs design, better than a Disco. I would most likely even be able to keep the classic registration, significantly reducing tax and insurance. And the V8 and LT95 are due for a full revision any way in the next year. I guess, so. Still not sure...

So, i spend some (too much) time researching this. What I found out is:

- Going Australian Army, putting an Isuzu disel in, doesn't work. It would really hard to keep the historical registration (not completley impossible so). More difficult is to get hold of n engine, and I don't buy unseen from China.

- 300tdi: My car being from 1982, I can do every modification I want, as long as it was possible to so in the first ten years of the cars live. Which makes the 300tdi to young. I could argue, that a 300 tdi was avaible later, and that a face lift only happened in 1985. But it is not sure that gets accepted.

Which leaves, basically:

- 2.4l and 2.5l VM: Easy to come by (they were used in Alfa Romeos, Chrysers and Jeeps) and easy t put in from what I understand so far. Preferably the 2.5l one. No idea how I can pair one of those with a LT95, if not I would need a new gear box and transfer case. Or a beat up RRC witha workable engine.

- 200tdi, either from a Disco 1 or a RRC. In both cases I can swithch the engine, wiring and the whole drive train. It would even be half way original. And It would fit easily in the ten year time window. 200tdi RRCs are rather hard to find, but as luck would have it I found a 1995 Disco with a 200 tdi relacement engine. Advertised as a donor car, it had some work on the engine done already (head gasket, push rods, cam bearings, one piston), compression is at 23, 23.5, 21.5 and 22 bar (cylinders 1 through 4). I could even salvage the electric window winders, plus all other bits and pieces needed for the engine conversion. It is priced well below 3k €, 260,000 km on the clock (no idea on which engine and which millage the 200tdi had when being fitted), and I would be able to keep my car, put the V8 and LT95 in the donor car for resale.

Any thoughts?

If I do keep the RRC, I will have to do the interior (get the last missing carpets), get the paint job properly done (the roof is loosing paint...), strip the old underseal from all suspension and stearing parts, have these parts sand blasted and properly painted (either by myself or by someone), replace the chassis mounts (parts are already here), replace some gaskets on the axles and get a new front diff (again, I could just use parts from the Disco 1 for the front axle, or rear, or whatever). Even the necessary suspension grade can be done by using parts from the Disco.

Go for the 200tdi. No electronics

Parts for the VM engines are harder to find

It looks like a 200tdi one day, or a 300tdi if I can keep the historical reg, they seem to be cheaper maintain and parts seem to be more plentiful. Regarding the VM availability, I am not sure. That engine ended up in so many cars, let alone boats, that parts have to be there. Maybe not from traditional LR sources.

Already reached out to the guy with the 200tdi Disco, of not there is a slightly more expensive 300tdi on sale not too far away as well. If not now, than for a later date.

How do they compare performance wise, the 200/300tdi and an early carbed 3.5 V8 in a RRC? Because, despite ruining me, it was quite fun to just keep going up hill at 110 kmh on the highway

Have you considered an EFI & LPG conversion? Keeps it original ish
Or the 3.9/4.0 V8 not sure how that would go with the regs you have.

J

Regarding reg, I can use anything available up to 1992, maybe 1995. Honestly, I really like the V8. Fuel consumption is just sooo bad, especially loaded, with two kayaks on the roof rack and so on, that it is practically un-driveable. And I heard that the larger bore V8s are prone to liner failure. How are those engines doing, fuel wise? And is it possible to fit a big enough LPG tank under the car?

I just talked to a couple of people at Turner Engineering (nice guys, honest down to earth advice not trying to sell on something), R. Whitehouse and Beaumonts. Always good to get some expert opinion, isn't it?

Running the numbers, an engine and transmission conversion to a tdi will just be expensive. Around 3k for a donor car, which will still potentially need an engine and gearbox revision. Not counting work hours and all the other costs that come with it. And if, a big if, can get the car to around 17ish mpg, it would be acceptable, especially compared to the 12 - 13 I get right now.

Getting the LT95 rebuild, ideally with some higher gear ratio and / or overdrive, sems to be close impossible so. Both, Whitehouse and Beaumont, told me thta quality parts simply aren't available anymore. Which doesn#t bode well for the future, does it?

So the plan right now is to gat a) the engine properly tuned (carbs and ignition) and refreshed (cam and whetever else is needed), b) get stuff like the bullbar and the last mains of her towing days of the car (les drag and less weight can only help), c) get a new front diff and check for any worn out axle and transmission parts. Which leaves the gearbox. I could either wait for an overdrive coming available and have it fitted once it's possible to rebuild the LT95, or I could jump that step and throw a LT77 / LT230 combo in there. Has anybody done something like that, retrofitting a LT77/230 to a pre-85 RRC? Because thinking about it, fuel consumption really sucks on highways, especially Germany. On smaller roads, staying by definition around 60 mph max, it's kind of ok. So a 5th gear would go a long way solving my problems.

Ah, spend some more time on the phone. Got a lead on a fairey overdrive for a LT95. Are there any differences between the RRC and Series OD units I should be aware of?

On an other note, in Germany you really, really get screwed over by "specialized" garages for old English cars in general and Land Rovers in particular. Turner Engineering, after having my problem and a quick engine discription, adviced me to refresh the existing engine (cam and push rods most likely) for somewhere between 1 and 2k in parts. A V8 specialized shop not to far from my place didn't want to hear half of my prob and about the engine, only to immediately selling me on a complete engine strip, reconditioning and rebuild along a radiator and bits and pieces replacement. Estimated at around 8k Euros. Holly ****! And with nobody else willing to go near old Rovers, Iwill either do it myself, with some help I have yet to find, or go to my local JLR garage. At least they are willing to fit whatever part you bring along, hourly rates are on par with any free garage I know and they are not afraid of the car.

I knew that importing parts from Paddocks to Germany got you something like a 80% profit margin, but hell....

Good, now it became a continuation project. The mission: bring fuel consumption down to 17 mpg (ideally better). And get her finally properly dressed up. That means engine refreshment, gear box refreshment, an OD, new tires, getting rid of weight and drag. And while everything is striped anyway, get some additional sound isolation in the engine bay and under the transmission tunnel. And a new paint job and the missing carpets. And a new stainless stell exhaust. That's about it. I guess.