Failed clutch?

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Make absolutely sure that the bell housing is perfectly flush to the back of the engine when putting back,
Even a very small amount out will rip the centre of the drive plate out,
Also only use a quality clutch kit, Valeo/ LUK and check the flywheel face is square, Ie hasn’t been refaced out of true, also replace spigot bush with new and try it on the primary motion shaft for fit before knocking it in place,
 
payydg said:
What seemed like an oil leak out of bell housing seems to have disappeared.

I haven’t actually had a look at the linkage that’s a good point but it feels like it’s going from hi to low on the gear stick not visualised the mechanism. May do that tomorrow before going any further...
Click to expand...

Checked clutch fluid level?
 
Europa486 said:
Make absolutely sure that the bell housing is perfectly flush to the back of the engine when putting back,
Even a very small amount out will rip the centre of the drive plate out,
Also only use a quality clutch kit, Valeo/ LUK and check the flywheel face is square, Ie hasn’t been refaced out of true, also replace spigot bush with new and try it on the primary motion shaft for fit before knocking it in place,
Click to expand...

Thanks mate. What’s the best way to check it’s square. Put it in and make sure there’s no gap before bolting up? I tend to put a bit of wood between the gear box and the cross member after lifting a bit to make it easier to put the engine back in. If I remember correctly I seated the engine against the bell housing bolted it all up and then lifted again to remove the wood and lower onto the engine mounts. Wrong technique?

I didn’t replace the spigot bush last time I did the clutch but plan to this time.

Always use a valeo clutch
 
You seemed to have it sorted, but I have seen where the clutch plate wasn’t perfectly lined up and in the process of putting the gearbox back the splines on the centre drive plate got distorted,
I use a smear of copperslip on the primary motion shaft and try the new clutch plate on it before fitting to the flywheel,
Good luck :)
 
payydg said:
Yeh that’s fine. Don’t think it’s a hydraulic problem as the clutch seems to disengage fine. Peddle isn’t solid etc
Click to expand...

I was more thinking a little clutch fluid mixing with a little engine oil would go a long way to making you think you had a more serious oil leak?
 
Europa486 said:
You seemed to have it sorted, but I have seen where the clutch plate wasn’t perfectly lined up and in the process of putting the gearbox back the splines on the centre drive plate got distorted,
I use a smear of copperslip on the primary motion shaft and try the new clutch plate on it before fitting to the flywheel,
Good luck :)
Click to expand...

Dont use copaslip, you want a real thin grease if any grease at all, whatever you put on wont last, but copaslip is meant for higher temps so may last longer and attract dirt into the splines.

I just rub a thin smear of everyday grease on the splines and the nosepiece then wipe of excess with paper, I only really apply it to help assembly.
 
payydg said:
Thanks mate. What’s the best way to check it’s square. Put it in and make sure there’s no gap before bolting up? I tend to put a bit of wood between the gear box and the cross member after lifting a bit to make it easier to put the engine back in. If I remember correctly I seated the engine against the bell housing bolted it all up and then lifted again to remove the wood and lower onto the engine mounts. Wrong technique?

I didn’t replace the spigot bush last time I did the clutch but plan to this time.

Always use a valeo clutch
Click to expand...

Just slam it in and bolt it up, it will be aligned perfectly, the bell housing to flywheel spigot will ensure that.

As for the spigot bush if its not worn it can go again, new ones can be a real pita to get the nosepiece to go into nicely.
 
I have also never replaced a spigot bush, although if I had a TD5 and had the clutch out i would probably make an exception as they are prone to making a noise
 
Well? Any news yet?

Those friction plates with a staked in splined boss in the middle are a bit prone to coming loose. I think the manufacturers do it because it means they can match up a variety of friction plates with a variety of different spline patterns to fit different vehicles and it keeps production costs down. Last time I did my clutch I got a one piece friction plate and hope this will last a bit better.

In my experience the crank seals and the gearbox seals are reasonably reliable. There's a lot of oil finds its way down the back of the engine because of things like leaky rocker cover gaskets, leaky fuel pressure regulators (on the TD5) and other oil leaks where the oil gets blown towards the back of the engine and then drips off the lowest point. So the oil leak and the clutch failure may well be a co-incidence.
 
I've noticed with spigot bushes that they're often not completely symmetrical. There's a small internal taper on one end. If you have a bush like this, put it in so the taper faces the gearbox and this will aid reassembly. Come to think of it, I don't suppose it would do any harm to grind a small internal taper on your bush. It won't reduce the functional bearing surface by all that much. When I fitted a reconditioned gearbox earlier this year I noticed my old gearbox input shaft had a small 45 degree taper machined on the end whereas the new one was absolutely square and came to a sharp edge. After a number of frustrating attempts to offer it up with my fingers losing sensation in the February chill, I deburred it (and the splines) and found it went together straight away. I think the reconditioners had fitted a brand new aftermarket input shaft and the edges were still very sharp so it was getting hung up on the friction plate and bush.
 
Brown said:
I've noticed with spigot bushes that they're often not completely symmetrical. There's a small internal taper on one end. If you have a bush like this, put it in so the taper faces the gearbox and this will aid reassembly. Come to think of it, I don't suppose it would do any harm to grind a small internal taper on your bush. It won't reduce the functional bearing surface by all that much. When I fitted a reconditioned gearbox earlier this year I noticed my old gearbox input shaft had a small 45 degree taper machined on the end whereas the new one was absolutely square and came to a sharp edge. After a number of frustrating attempts to offer it up with my fingers losing sensation in the February chill, I deburred it (and the splines) and found it went together straight away. I think the reconditioners had fitted a brand new aftermarket input shaft and the edges were still very sharp so it was getting hung up on the friction plate and bush.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and tip. Will change the clutch this weekend and see. The weather was too nice so I’ve gone camping
 
Brown said:
I've noticed with spigot bushes that they're often not completely symmetrical. There's a small internal taper on one end. If you have a bush like this, put it in so the taper faces the gearbox and this will aid reassembly. Come to think of it, I don't suppose it would do any harm to grind a small internal taper on your bush. It won't reduce the functional bearing surface by all that much. When I fitted a reconditioned gearbox earlier this year I noticed my old gearbox input shaft had a small 45 degree taper machined on the end whereas the new one was absolutely square and came to a sharp edge. After a number of frustrating attempts to offer it up with my fingers losing sensation in the February chill, I deburred it (and the splines) and found it went together straight away. I think the reconditioners had fitted a brand new aftermarket input shaft and the edges were still very sharp so it was getting hung up on the friction plate and bush.
Click to expand...
If the tech has been adapted from Series, which is likely, the spigot bush should be fitted in the flywheel, and then reamed to the right size in situ.
For Series, if I remember correctly, the size was 3/4 of an inch.

No idea how much, if any, of that translates into Defenders of various stages of, errr, development.
 
I'm pretty sure all the ones I had went on the shaft without any additional machining, both on the Series 2A Forward Control many years ago and on more recent clutch changes on Land rovers and other vehicles.

Another possibility which works surprisingly well considering how crude it is, is to use a small flap wheel on an electric drill. It's even recommended in Nigel Calder's classic 'Marine Diesel Engines' and there's a Maximus Ironthumper Youtube video where he does this to adjust the size of the little end bearings on his tractor engine, and it worked too.
 
Brown said:
I'm pretty sure all the ones I had went on the shaft without any additional machining, both on the Series 2A Forward Control many years ago and on more recent clutch changes on Land rovers and other vehicles.

Another possibility which works surprisingly well considering how crude it is, is to use a small flap wheel on an electric drill. It's even recommended in Nigel Calder's classic 'Marine Diesel Engines' and there's a Maximus Ironthumper Youtube video where he does this to adjust the size of the little end bearings on his tractor engine, and it worked too.
Click to expand...
They have probably improved parts tolerances since the S2 manual was written in the 50s.

And the flap wheel will work, it is not much more crude than reaming.
 
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