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Error F4 with hdc light on

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by mbrokof, Nov 24, 2014.

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  1. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Hi All,

    this morning the light went on again. Could make it to the company but that was about it. Turned on on Sat, I pulled the hose from the turbo boost and it turned off again, obviously it not it. Got a fuel pump this morning if is connected the 4th gear problem I have http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/4th-gear-accelerator-lack-270287.html

    turbo boost also arrived this morning.

    Is there an instruction on how to change the fuel pump? it's the under bonnet one. AA guy told me to pull connection while engine's running would prevent from spreading diesel all over as sucked empty. Is it just to take off the connection on top and to pull it out or to take of incl. the plastic cover?

    KR
    Matthias
     
  2. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    When tried to get my car home yesterday I got stuck on a crossing. Nothing worked any more, engine is running normal and accelerating, but no gears react. Error did come up first but then not anymore. When cooled down some minutes, could get of the crossing and stood again some meters away, same happened some meters ahead. AA pulled me around the corner. I am thinking if one of the solenoids might be gone. I changed shift A and 2/4 break duty last year. Is there one for 4th gear which could have started it? Can't open the box, but will try and see if I can measure through later on.
     
  3. teddywood1

    teddywood1 Well-Known Member

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    Ask hippo I am sure he did some pictures of how to do it then again I could be wrong
     
  4. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Ok will check with him, thanks
     
  5. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    measured through some of the solenoids this evening as it started drizzling again. Not sure if the results are correct at the moment. compared to Hippo's video my multi-meter went up and down all the time. here are the results I thought would be correct:
    2-4 brake duty: 4.9
    2-4 brake timing: 18.5
    reduction timing: 17.8
    shift b: 17.9
    shift a: 17.0
    shift c: 17.1
    line pressure: 3.3, at own resistance of 0.4/5.
    I think the brake duty solenoid might be defect, even that I couldn't say completely as the values up/down all the time. Could it be that this means that the connection to the Jatco might have some problems (maybe the connector) as well or could be only the not so expensive multi-meter (10£ from Lidl one)? When I had it open last year I measured through connections inside and it was ok, could have changed from that though. Could it be the outside temperature causing the ups and downs?
     
  6. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    Some questions:

    Will it reverse?
    If it won't drive forward in 1st gear can you select 2nd gear buy putting it in sport mode and pushing the gear lever forwards?
    When moving the gear lever do the LED's by the lever light up correctly?
    Does the PRND421 display correctly on the dash display?
    Does "sport mode" display correctly on the dash display?
    Does the speedo sit at zero with the engine running?
    Have you had any warning lights on the dash like hdc/abs...?
    Whats the mileage?
    When you put it into drive or reverse does the engine rock as it takes up the strain?
     
  7. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    reverse worked for like 50cm
    Mileage is 146k

    Will check the rest tonight.
     
  8. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    no, only for reverse when I start the engine, then not anymore. also not in drive

    Will try to measure the connection of the wiring from ecu down tomorrow, to see if it works to the connector and then separate from the connector into the jatco. Any thoughts on it Hippo?

    Is there anyone around West-London with a Hawkeye to read out if there is an error?


    Just saw the last red line belongs to the last question, somehow slipped out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
  9. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Hi Hippo,

    I measured through the solenoids today and got the following out of it:

    I reckoned that it might be related to a problem I think I had that I felt the gear were somehow stuck in between from time to time. I mean it was maybe 2-3 or 3-4 that I accelerated, but when doing a bit slower it wouldn't change up. Could that be related to it as well?

    Regarding the values I got it seems to me if the cable between C0932 and C0243 might be defect. I measured once only the wire between the two and it came up with a beep for all the connections except the one for the line pressure duty one. Anything where I can find what that valve does? I couldn't find anything on the rave disk yet.

    Kind Regards
    Matthias
     

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  10. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    Auto gearboxes interest me. Mine played up and had to be replaced. We often tell people to go down the route of the method of investigation the main dealer did to mine. This includes:

    Measuring the solenoids/sensors as per the video > Freelander 1 v6 Jatco Auto Gearbox - Measuring the Solenoid and Sensor Resistances
    Setting the auto gearbox oil to the correct level (starting the procedure from cold).
    Make sure the auto gearbox oil is ok.
    Test drive it.

    There's no sure way to diagnose auto gearbox problems unless there's something obvious. Obvious meaning a bad resistive reading or something physically broke'd. A lot of the problems are difficult to diagnose without taking it apart. Auto's wear by nature of how they work. Clutch packs etc wear for example.

    If the resistance measurements are ok and the auto's ability to drive has slowly weakened to the extent it can't move the Freelander... then I often wonder if the following would help the diagnostic process:

    (engine off)
    With the auto gearbox in neutral push the Freelander 1 forward to see if it moves - it should.
    With the auto gearbox in drive push the Freelander 1 forward and it won't move.

    If the above works then:

    Lift both front wheels.
    Disable drive to the rear wheels - disconnect prop shaft for example.
    Start the engine and put into Drive and Reverse, to see if the front wheels turn.

    The above test resembles a drill bit in a drill which stops spinning when the pressure on it from drilling a hole it too much so the drill bit stops while the chuck is still turning. I'm wondering if your auto is worn and therefore doesn't have enough grip to pass the full force to move your Freelander. Allowing the wheels to spin in the air may prove the auto does have drive through it, but it's too weak due to wear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  11. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    The bleep option on meters are not reliable. They bleep if the resistance they measure is below a certain value, say 10 ohms. 10.2ohms would therefore not bleep - as an eggsample. Some meters allow you to change the value. You would be betterer to read the resistance value to get a clear indication of what yer measuring.
     
  12. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Hi Hippo,

    I tested the solenoids according to your video. Thanks btw for the video. I found it a great help to me. Especially when trying to close the round connector and it didn't work cause I did it the 'continental' way to close it right and not left. Additionally I tested the wiring between the two connectors when I thought that it has a wiring problem at the moment for the line pressure solenoid. Thought to try that and if there is no outcome, will go for the rest. LR checked the IRD I think in April when i was there. They also refilled the gearbox oil last year, hope therefore the level is ok. Maybe I am lucky and it's just the wiring.

    I found your post sound quite philosophical:).

    Matthias
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  13. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Just wanted to check the wire from c0932 to c0243 female and got a bit confused about the colours. Up in the ecu box it starts grey- blue (pin 17) I think and down it comes in yellow (pin 15). Is that correct? Would have thought it should have same colouring. Think I had the same confusion last year already, but not sure and couldn't find it.
     
  14. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    Pin 17 on the ecu is grey/black in my video and the rave disk circuit. It should go to pin 18 on the barrel connector. The video shows the pin numbering and locations.

    Forgot to say... make sure yer meter battery is good. If not then you may get incorrect readings. Yours looks ok but this will also help others if I add it while I'm thinking about it.
     
  15. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Ok, will have a look if I can find some adjustments for it. Had it on 200Ohm and was surprised nothing was coming down for the wiring only.
     
  16. Danielsand

    Danielsand New Member

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    I had the same issue after the engine/tranny replacement. Followed Hippo's instructions, measured all the pins, all the solenoids, from the barrels down to tranny, and from the fuse box (with barrels connected, and disconnected), and I ran against the wall!

    I even zip tied the barrels (per Hippo's instructions), and that made it WORSE. Then I figured out something is going on with barrels. Cut the zip ties, and washed the barrels with contact cleaner (several times!). After the third wash, F4 and HDC in amber were gone! And they never came back.

    I figured that once the original barrels were disconnected (to connect the new motor/tranny as an unit), the old lithium grease (that the barrels are lubed with from the factory) that was as hard as plastic (2002 MY), was forced into the barrel tubes, and gave INTERMITTENT false signal to the solenoids.

    It's been about six months now since F4 went away, and everything's good.

    If (for any reason) barrels were disconnected prior to F4/HDC appearing, I'd go at it with the contact cleaner (cheap, and easy to do). If nobody touched the barrels before F4/HDC popped up,......I'm afraid you will need to change some solenoids (not a bad job, especially if you have access to a hoist).
     
  17. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Checked it again and reckoned that I mixed up 17/18. On the video it shows for the ground/17 and 18 in the right column. Just wrote it on my paper and got confused first. 2nd check worked and looked better.

    Checked tonight the sensors as I forgot those on Sunday and there was nothing at all happening, not even a bleep, Had it on 200Ohm, hope that was ok. Not sure, but seems if anything else would happening in there.
     
  18. mbrokof

    mbrokof Active Member

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    Thanks. No didn't have the barrels open before. Last time I think was LR when they fixed. When I had it open I found though, that the connectors looked a bit greenish and was thinking if that might be the reason. Have a maf cleaner here but wasn't sure if I can use it for the connector as well. It's residue free.
     
  19. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    18 is the common on the barrel connectors. 17 is the common on the computer connectors. Text below the video provides the list you can copy.

    Manual range meters require you to select the correct unit range. If you measure 150ohms you will need the 200ohm range. If you use the 200ohm range to measure 15 or 400ohms, it won't display correctly as it's out of range. This can fool you into thinking there's no reading. So make sure the range is set to the lowest range, to measure the expected value. 550ohm will need the 2000 range and 15ohms the 20 range. Range's vary between meters.

    If you readings measure correctly at the computer connector then you can leave the barrel connectors as your just measuring the same sensor, but through less cable as yer half way down the loom.
     
  20. Danielsand

    Danielsand New Member

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    I purchased two cans of contact cleaner (labeled "for sensitive electronic components") in the local parts store. I used both cans on the barrels, fuse box, and every other electrical connector I could see under the hood. So far, so good. ;)
     
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