Emission question Series 3

Good day all,

My name is Carsten, I live in California.

Last year I purchased a 1981 Series 3, 88", 2.25l gas engine in Washington state. I think the truck was imported to the US in 2009. When I purchased the truck it was exempt from emission tests in Washington state.
In August I relocated from Washington state to California. I tried to register it here but the truck needs to be tested. Since the truck was never produced here I cannot go to a regular smog test facility to test it, they have no record of the car and don't know the standards it should conform with. One option I have is go to an approved conversion garage and pay a flat fee of $9,950 to make the car conform to California standards. I am not planning on spending this money without knowing what exactly needs to be done to meet standards.
I want to appeal to the Air and resource board for an exemption and want to back my appeal with emission data but I cannot find actual CO2, NOx, etc. numbers the 2.25 l gas engine spits out.
My question to the community is do you have factory data I could use to make my case or has anybody in the community dealt with California SMOG for a 1981 Series 3?

Try googling MOT test emissions in United Kingdom. There are various emissions standards depending on the class of vehicle and fuel type. In the UK petrol (gas) std landy engines have basic emission control but generally they run very clean if maintained. Do you know if it's imported from the UK? Someone might also provide an indicative UK MOT result for that year and model. Then you can compare to Californian standard.

Hi John,
Yes, I have googled for MOT test emissions but I cannot find the 1981 S3 in any of the published docs.
Yes, it was imported from the UK and I have replaced the carburetor to a Weber which, I was told, runs very lean.

Thanks for your reply!

I looked on the DVLA (our Goverment) info and it only does back to 2001. I would try Land Rover - ask for the homologation department as this is the kind of thing they should do. I'm sure someone here with an S3 with a Weber could get a set of results for their viehicle, it would give you a guide. We get these at our annula MOT test, but they are not very detailed.

You can get a reprint of the orginal road test. There will be no emissions data as this was not part of the test, but there will be fuel consumption and you can work out the CO2 from that. It may also be a case of putting a file together and this could help. I got a Merc 300TD (1990) exempted from an emisisons charge here and it was all about putting case together. The winning arguments were:"1 - if there is no way to exempt a vehicle and no evidence of any exemptions then it is a tax as it applies to everyone and if its a tax it requires a higher level of approval. " - 2 - "if the policy is intended to reduce emissions then there must be a change that can be made by a driver otherwise the policy cannot have a postive impact..."

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When the rover engine was developed by a room full of pipe smoking boffins with top pockets full of pencils I don't think emissions had been invented.
As long as it didn't blot out the sun and kill any towed livestock it was a pass.
if you have to make a plea for roadworthynes it may help your case to outline the fact that these are now classed as historic vehicles in most countries and require classification as such.

I've got a petrol 83 model. I'll check the last test and update you.

For my 1978 S3 the limits for a UK MOT test are 4.5% CO and HC ppm vol 1200

Quite right about pipe smoke, a friends dad was a true boffin, he designed guided missiles. Always wore tweed suits and smoked a pipe. I doubt the exhuast made much difference. I tthink the same was true of oil leaks, the view was that a little bit of leakange showed it was getting lubricated or the need for driver intervention: what's wrong with getting out and opening the bonnet to turn up the heater?

the only environmental law regarding "clean air' was the crank case vented to the engine, which came into force in october 1977. for us this was simply an oil separator on the rocker cover, plumbed into the carb elbow. i've been through the official land rover workshop manual with fine tooth comb and cant find any set XYZ outputs for tailpipe emissions. i can give you some real life figures from UK vehicle, but i dont think that will hold up interrogation by cali laws !

series 3 had some extra gadgets for export markets, these are exhaust gas recirculation (valve that lets inert exhaust gas into the intake, which reduces combustion temps and reduces nitrogen oxides) evaporative loss (venting the gas tank to the engine intake via carbon canister) and also crank case vented into the intake which is detailed in paragraph 1. these are referred to as "detox" engines in literature.

we didnt get catalytic converters enforced until the the start of 1990s

Still to root out my test results but as posted if you can support your case with the workshop an optional extras stuff it might help. You've got to be careful with that if it then indicates emissions systems your landy doesn't have. Curious question how do you manage to get classic muscle cars through the Californian tests e.g a large V8 hemi ?

Just follwoing on from Darrens post above. Perhaps you could indetify the part numbers for any / all export mods fitted to S3s up to the date of yours and fit them. You could argue that this woudl then meet the relvent spec (and type approval) stadard applicable at the time. Somewhere there may be some refernce to the requirment, it is unlikely to be in terms of emissons figures but more likely just reduction objectives such as "recirculted breather" or "reciculted unburnt fuel on cold start"

I suspect the optional extra emissions stuff will be unobtainable now along with most of the optional extra catalogue .

Bobsticle said:

When the rover engine was developed by a room full of pipe smoking boffins with top pockets full of pencils I don't think emissions had been invented.
As long as it didn't blot out the sun and kill any towed livestock it was a pass.
if you have to make a plea for roadworthynes it may help your case to outline the fact that these are now classed as historic vehicles in most countries and require classification as such.

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Thank you. I have tried to go the 'historic' route but California does not want to hear anything about that topic. CA is the only state that has not adopted the 25y exemption policy and is not about to change that stance.

John S said:

Still to root out my test results but as posted if you can support your case with the workshop an optional extras stuff it might help. You've got to be careful with that if it then indicates emissions systems your landy doesn't have. Curious question how do you manage to get classic muscle cars through the Californian tests e.g a large V8 hemi ?

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I spoke to state and federal officials about my case and I am stuck. Unless I go to a authorized facility to get my Landy tested and certified I cannot get it registered in California. I don't think a certificate of conformity has ever been created and without that you cannot even go to an emission specialist to obtain a test.
V8? Ha, any old car incl. the huge V8s that were build prior to 1975 are exempt from emission checks.
V8s that were build 1975 or earlier were tested and a certificate had been produced back in the day when build, it does not really matter how bad they are polluting because they had to be compliant in the year build and as long as they stay within those old standards they are fine.
My argument was that I want to be compared to a care from 1981 that has a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder petrol engine. The answer was: That request is fine but only the officially authorized facility can conduct the tests and produce the results and that costs USD$9,950.
So, I may be within the range but unless the authorized emission center proves it I am **** out of luck.

Carsten Kai Giessmann said:

I spoke to state and federal officials about my case and I am stuck. Unless I go to a authorized facility to get my Landy tested and certified I cannot get it registered in California. I don't think a certificate of conformity has ever been created and without that you cannot even go to an emission specialist to obtain a test.
V8? Ha, any old car incl. the huge V8s that were build prior to 1975 are exempt from emission checks.
V8s that were build 1975 or earlier were tested and a certificate had been produced back in the day when build, it does not really matter how bad they are polluting because they had to be compliant in the year build and as long as they stay within those old standards they are fine.
My argument was that I want to be compared to a care from 1981 that has a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder petrol engine. The answer was: That request is fine but only the officially authorized facility can conduct the tests and produce the results and that costs USD$9,950.
So, I may be within the range but unless the authorized emission center proves it I am **** out of luck.

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Sadly you find any data from the UK for emissions on that age, as it simply wasn’t really tested for. Co2 is a pretty modern thing to check for over here.

The only info you may find is from when the Series Land Rover was sold in the USA. I don’t what year it ceased, 60’s or 70’s maybe. But maybe earlier. The 2.25 engine remained pretty unchanged from the introduction of the Seres II in 1958 right through to it’s demise in the early 1980’s.

I am going to check on older models but I am afraid the records won't be available because the Series 2, when imported officially, is now exempt from the SMOG check. I have already looked through the 'big book' that lists all vehicles and their emission standards the local SMOG check is using to set up the equipment but the book does not list Series 2 and no vehicle older than 1975.

Why does it cost so much for the test? To act as a disincentive for older vehicles? Could it be authorised in another state more cheaply and still driven in CA?

It is not only the test but the entire certification procedure. My ask was a test to determine if the truck meets the emission standards or needs adjustments and additions. The answer: It does not work that way, we test and make the truck compliant and that process costs a flat fee of $9,950. I politely declined.
In my humble opinion the company is misusing their monopoly in the region. The state of California does not care about vehicles that were produced after 1975 and were never certified for California. The numbers are just too low.
Yes, registering the truck in another state and driving it here is certainly an option but it is illegal. I guess I need a home in another state and only temporarily drive it in California.

Are there any local politicians who also like classic vehciles, preferabley British and pre 1975? Politicians like helping the "small person" overcome a monopoly or a company abusing power, it wins votes and is on a par with kissing babies. Its worth a try. I've had some succes in other areas by mobilising my local MP when all else has failed. Obviously any dealings with politicians come with a health warning "if you sup with the Devil take a long spoon" but it would be my next strategy. The other thing is to ask what you get for the money, do you get type approval for ALL series 3 petrol Land Rovers, if you can get them to agree that then try crowd funding or set up a website to share teh type appraval for a reasonble fee so that you recoup your investment.