electric range rover

Sean said:

go on you know you want to ......

Dewdney Hydro - Micro Hydro Systems

some very good threads re using water here

Hydro Turbines

there's a few threads showing complete rebuilds of old mills to incorporate circa 10Kw gennies

Click to expand...

Pico Hydro and Evans Engineering are other sources

Then there was the bloke in Wales who had a fast stream running through his land. He made a water wheel to run a generator off. Got free electric. Only problem was the water board wanted to charge him for the water running through his water wheel. True believe it or not.

Datatek said:

Yep, it's a fecking waste of time like all electric cars, they are more polluting than an I.C engine it's just that the pollution is concentrated at the power station. Most electricity is generated by steam turbine, ( Charles Parsons 1899) steam is generated by oil, gas coal or nuclear. Energy conversion efficiency is something like 35%, then you have the transmission losses taking the electricity to where it's needed, up to 18% depending on the weather. In addition you have to make batteries, a pretty polluting process and you have to dispose of them after a fairly short life. By comparison a good common rail diesel has a better conversion efficiency, really big common rail engines can approach 80% efficiency. Now tell me why an electric car is a good idea except for city centres or for that matter why train are touted as being green?

Click to expand...

I'm sorry Data but I'm going to have to call you out on that. There are no and I mean no diesel car engines running at more than 50% let alone 80% efficency. The static turbines using combined cycle generation are the most efficent IC engines on the planet right now, They do approach 80% efficency. Electrical high votage transmission losses account for about 7% of generated power so the cost of getting electricity to your socket is a hell of a lot less than getting oil from the depot to your local petrol station.

As for wind, well the best analogy is that you could build the hoover dam in the middle of the Sahara but you wouldn't expect it to generate much hydro power there would you. Renewable energy projects have to be built where there is an energy resouce. There isn't much point building tidal energy projects in the Mediterranean sea with a tidal range of 1m when it would cost more or less the same to build it in the Bay of Biscay with a tidal range of 10m.

Wind generation along the west coasts of Portugal, Ireland and Scotland with wind speeds averaging over 7m/s across the year makes much more sense than building them inland in France with wind speeds averaging 3m/s. The power from wind is a function of the cube of the wind speed so wind in portugal will out produce wind inland in France by a factor of 7^3 to 3^3 which is 343:27. So that means that the exact same wind turbine in Portugal will produce over 12 times more power than the same one in France.

Solar power in Ireland with 60% cloud cover is going to run a tad less efficiently than the same solar array in Spain.

So renewable energy is very much environmentally dependant.

As for wave energy, well for something to produce power from the sea, it first has to survive in the sea. Take one look at the shape of Scotland and Irelands west coast. There are only two systems survive the surf zone, sand dunes and cliffs. Until designers understand surf survival then wave energy will escape us.

I know... Electric car with a windmill on the roof - charge as you go!





































Damn you Newton!

I didn't say car engines run at more than 50% although some approach it. I said large common rail engines, like 18,000 litres (Yes that's right 18K) max rpm 120 fuel conversion efficiency close to 80%.

Listen to the arc overs on UHV lines in wet weather, it equals 18% losses according to USA authorities.

Combined heat and power is very efficient, shame it's virutally unused in the UK with all the waste heat going out in the cooling towers.

Parson's steam turbine in Turbinia was dramatically more efficient than old steam piston engines but steam turbine powered vessels are virually non existant today (except for nuclear powered) as diesels are so much more efficient.

SpudH said:

I'm sorry Data but I'm going to have to call you out on that. There are no and I mean no diesel car engines running at more than 50% let alone 80% efficency. The static turbines using combined cycle generation are the most efficent IC engines on the planet right now, They do approach 80% efficency. Electrical high votage transmission losses account for about 7% of generated power so the cost of getting electricity to your socket is a hell of a lot less than getting oil from the depot to your local petrol station.

As for wind, well the best analogy is that you could build the hoover dam in the middle of the Sahara but you wouldn't expect it to generate much hydro power there would you. Renewable energy projects have to be built where there is an energy resouce. There isn't much point building tidal energy projects in the Mediterranean sea with a tidal range of 1m when it would cost more or less the same to build it in the Bay of Biscay with a tidal range of 10m.

Wind generation along the west coasts of Portugal, Ireland and Scotland with wind speeds averaging over 7m/s across the year makes much more sense than building them inland in France with wind speeds averaging 3m/s. The power from wind is a function of the cube of the wind speed so wind in portugal will out produce wind inland in France by a factor of 7^3 to 3^3 which is 343:27. So that means that the exact same wind turbine in Portugal will produce over 12 times more power than the same one in France.

Solar power in Ireland with 60% cloud cover is going to run a tad less efficiently than the same solar array in Spain.

So renewable energy is very much environmentally dependant.

As for wave energy, well for something to produce power from the sea, it first has to survive in the sea. Take one look at the shape of Scotland and Irelands west coast. There are only two systems survive the surf zone, sand dunes and cliffs. Until designers understand surf survival then wave energy will escape us.

Click to expand...

Is that the one that LRO featured quite a while ago with an electric motor on each wheel? If so, it ought to be excellent off road. For a couple of miles.

I've come to the conclusion that battery technology will never be good enough for use in cars. They seem to have made bugger all progress in battery technology in recent years, so progress is hardly accelerating.

Agree with Keith, Hydrogen is the only sensible way forward, currently.

If you took away the subsidies, very few of the renewable sources would be worth considering. It's all political nonsense.

kooky_guy said:

Is that the one that LRO featured quite a while ago with an electric motor on each wheel? If so, it ought to be excellent off road. For a couple of miles.

I've come to the conclusion that battery technology will never be good enough for use in cars. They seem to have made bugger all progress in battery technology in recent years, so progress is hardly accelerating.

Agree with Keith, Hydrogen is the only sensible way forward, currently.

If you took away the subsidies, very few of the renewable sources would be worth considering. It's all political nonsense.

Click to expand...

How true. Electric cars will never be anything other than large shopping trollies. Commuting maybe, town cars, going to ASDA yes. Anything else a waste of time. Bit of a gimmic really, when you consider the CO2 produced making them and the CO2 produced to charge them. If CO2 is really what people are bothered about.

It hasn't got a motor on each wheel as such..it has a rear gear box and a front gearbox each with 2 motors!
Electric cars really need the price of the lithium ion cells to drop to make it a viable car, the battery's in this one were about 40k. But with technology advancing all the time if you could have an electric car with a couple hundred mile range and a charging time of an hour and a reasonable price I think they would become viable. There's talk of an induction charging system with plates built in the road so you can charge while your driving!
Without a double electric cars are going to be a big part of our future!

i know this is side tracking the topic but while we are on the eco subject read this

The Green Thing

Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the older woman, that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized and explained, "We didn't have this green thing back in my earlier days."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations."

She was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled. But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks. But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that young lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana . In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity. But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull. But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service. We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smartass young person.


Remember: Don't make old People mad.

We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to **** us off.

Partysos said:

It hasn't got a motor on each wheel as such..it has a rear gear box and a front gearbox each with 2 motors!
Electric cars really need the price of the lithium ion cells to drop to make it a viable car, the battery's in this one were about 40k. But with technology advancing all the time if you could have an electric car with a couple hundred mile range and a charging time of an hour and a reasonable price I think they would become viable. There's talk of an induction charging system with plates built in the road so you can charge while your driving!
Without a double electric cars are going to be a big part of our future!

Click to expand...

They could put powered guide track in the road to run the motor. That way they would never need charging. We could call them Scalectrix.

wammers said:

They could put powered guide track in the road to run the motor. That way they would never need charging. We could call them Scalectrix.

Click to expand...

but everybody would crash at the first corner... can't see how that's going to help

It would be the one and only time a 90 could do a loop the loop.

Am I wrong in thinking there was an electro magnetic engine that once started would run continuously until braked? Patent bought by petrol companies in the sixties.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEEQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DPFGiWiXMHn0&ei=9GkLT_rcAsWt8gO6nbzqBQ&usg=AFQjCNHQbtKwozvDFzSuT01Fe1wE87xZgA

3.5 efi said:

but everybody would crash at the first corner... can't see how that's going to help

Click to expand...

Yeah buying shares in injury lawyers 4U might be a good plan.

chunkymunky said:

It would be the one and only time a 90 could do a loop the loop.

Am I wrong in thinking there was an electro magnetic engine that once started would run continuously until braked? Patent bought by petrol companies in the sixties.

Perendev magnetic motor - YouTube

Click to expand...

Patents only last twenty years get inventing.

Partysos said:

Without a double electric cars are going to be a big part of our future!

Click to expand...

That's certainly what they keep telling us. I don't see it. Obviously you are nearer to the subject than me, but they have been promising us a usable electric car for decades. Still no sign of one.

It seems that current battery technology has reached it's limit without delivering anything more than the previous generation.

What about magetic wheel with fan blades to create rapid air . Should be enough to fan your face as you push your electric car to a hook up

I personally think it could work.

My uncle (architect) has used arcimedes screw on canal at avon on a project of a converted warehouse now a shopping arcade and flats. Power does all of them and get payback

chunkymunky said:

It would be the one and only time a 90 could do a loop the loop.

Am I wrong in thinking there was an electro magnetic engine that once started would run continuously until braked? Patent bought by petrol companies in the sixties.

Perendev magnetic motor - YouTube

Click to expand...

The old conservation of energy bit stops all that lot working... same as all the so called perpetual motion machines on youtube...
Simply put - 'yer can't get owt for nowt!'

How about induction loops in the road driving linear motors in the vehicle? Magnetic emissions might cook your bollocks so it would be very green as it would help reduce the population which is the root cause of all the problems.

Datatek said:

How about induction loops in the road driving linear motors in the vehicle? Magnetic emissions might cook your bollocks so it would be very green as it would help reduce the population which is the root cause of all the problems.

Click to expand...

Yes Keith time for a cull i think. The French first then continue east.

PS except if they are married to an Englishman.

wammers said:

Yes Keith time for a cull i think. The French first then continue east.

PS except if they are married to an Englishman.

Click to expand...

I'd go for the Germans first, they are busy taking over Europe using financial warfare. Greece and Italy both now have unelected presidents effectively selected by Merkel