EAS Fault

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S

Scott

Guest
I've got a 2000 HSE 4.6 with 38,000 miles. Four months ago the dash
read EAS Fault. Took to the dealer and $2,500 later I had new air
shocks, etc. 60 days later EAS Fault returned. Dealer said I needed
new battery. 30 days later EAS fault returned and dealer said I need
new control module. EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control
module replace). HELP!!!!!

Anyone have any thoughts?

Scott

 
Scott <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've got a 2000 HSE 4.6 with 38,000 miles. Four months ago the dash
> read EAS Fault. Took to the dealer and $2,500 later I had new air
> shocks, etc. 60 days later EAS Fault returned. Dealer said I needed
> new battery. 30 days later EAS fault returned and dealer said I need
> new control module. EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control
> module replace). HELP!!!!!
>
> Anyone have any thoughts?

Let me see. New valve block, some pressure sensors, an air spring or two,
another valve block under the warrantee on the previous repair, a position
sensor or maybe two, I'm loosing track. These days the dealer just resets
the fault codes and it goes for another couple of months before dropping
back to 35mph mode.

22 months and counting and I suspect the previous owner had the fault as
the parts changed were all relatively new.

I now have a supplementary device that cuts into the air lines to the
springs and lets me blow them up manually so I keep a scuba tank with
valve gear in the back. The one thing I need never be short of is
compressed air.

Yes. It sucks.
If you get a permanent fix let me know what it was....

nigelH
1996 4.6 HSE


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On or around 6 Mar 2006 04:55:19 -0800, "Scott" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>Anyone have any thoughts?

the dealer's a ****.

they should be able to trace faults, surely? that's what all the diagnostic
**** on the motor is for...

are they suitably equipped with something like testbook or rovacom to
interrogate the vehicle?

sounds like they're just swapping parts and hoping to find the dud one.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:13:33 -0000, "Nigel Hewitt"
<[email protected]> wrote:
A friends Disco 2 had a similar problem and being a mountain biker he
shoved some tire slime into the bags. Has since sold the vehicle, but
reported no problems useing this fix.

Regards
Stephen
 
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:56:17 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>On or around 6 Mar 2006 04:55:19 -0800, "Scott" <[email protected]>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>Anyone have any thoughts?
>
>the dealer's a ****.
>

oi, they're useful, or so SWMBO says...
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....
 
In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around 6 Mar 2006 04:55:19 -0800, "Scott" <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >Anyone have any thoughts?
>
> the dealer's a ****.
>
> they should be able to trace faults, surely? that's what all the diagnostic
> **** on the motor is for...
>
> are they suitably equipped with something like testbook or rovacom to
> interrogate the vehicle?
>
> sounds like they're just swapping parts and hoping to find the dud one.

I think you may be being a tad harsh there, though not necesserily so.

The trouble with TestBook, assuming that's what they are using, is that
the diagnostics were/are often written by contractors who have no
particular product knowledge. This means that the level of diagnostic
can go from "The gearbox says it's knackered" to a whole list
of possible problems that could raise the gearbox error, the former
leaving the operator pretty much in the dark. The diagnostics *should*
go past any ECU's and ask the operator questions like "Is there a
5v square wave signal to pin 4 of the diddlydodah connector, if not
look at the output from the deringulator, else bang your head on the
wall and put the kettle on".
Having said that, the dealer *should* be employing machaincs rather
that fitters (nice theory, anyway!) who will find the real root
problem.

I'll get me coat.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
fanie wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:13:33 -0000, "Nigel Hewitt" wrote:
> A friends Disco 2 had a similar problem and being a mountain biker he
> shoved some tire slime into the bags. Has since sold the vehicle, but
> reported no problems useing this fix.

Sadly that wouldn't be a fix for mine.
With the valve block unpowered I can pump the 4 bags up
and they take a week to sag so no leak.

I think it's a software bug but then I'm an embedded systems
programmer so most of the Rangie CPUs look like a bug-fest
to me.

My guess is that it is seeing a glitch cause by the sensors
getting old and instead of doing a second take it screams,
waves its hands in the air and hides under the bed.

I'm looking to find an EAS ECU I can pull to bits and see if
I can make any sense of its gizzards. Since this might be
impossible on a simple time scale I don't want to pay list
for something I may trash. I'm watching Ebay hopefully.

nigelH


 
....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> the dealer's a ****.

Nice tautology, Austin.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
Richard Brookman wrote:
> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>> the dealer's a ****.
>
> Nice tautology, Austin.

LOL!! Was a tad strong for Austin i must say!! But, to the point! Also correct i would think!

Nige



--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)
110 Hi Cap (Ben)

'"Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one"


 
Scott wrote:

> EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control module replace). HELP!!!!!

Wiring? If the bits at the end are new, the bits in between aren't and
you get the same symptons I'd be looking very very very closely at the
bits that were the same both times. Maybe see if you can get an auto
electrician to look at it as opposed to a dealer zombie who just
plugged in his computer.

Regards

William MacLeod

 
Richard Brookman wrote:
> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>
>>the dealer's a ****.
>
>
> Nice tautology, Austin.
>

Fairly accurate too I'd say.

--
EMB
 
In message <[email protected]>
"Nigel Hewitt" <[email protected]> wrote:

> fanie wrote:
> > On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:13:33 -0000, "Nigel Hewitt" wrote:
> > A friends Disco 2 had a similar problem and being a mountain biker he
> > shoved some tire slime into the bags. Has since sold the vehicle, but
> > reported no problems useing this fix.
>
> Sadly that wouldn't be a fix for mine.
> With the valve block unpowered I can pump the 4 bags up
> and they take a week to sag so no leak.
>
> I think it's a software bug but then I'm an embedded systems
> programmer so most of the Rangie CPUs look like a bug-fest
> to me.
>

I'd be surpised in there are many, if any, serious bugs. ECU
softawre and hardware is considered mission, if not safety,
critical (depending on application, obvioulsy the heater not working
is "trivial") with all the design proofs and testing that is associated
with it - I've done it in the automotive sector and it dull work.

> My guess is that it is seeing a glitch cause by the sensors
> getting old and instead of doing a second take it screams,
> waves its hands in the air and hides under the bed.

Sort of. For faults that can have adverse effects on the vehicle
performance (as in being drivable, not go-faster) or safety the
usual tactic is to log a soft fault on the first n events, and if
the fault does not clear then log a hard fault that can be dealt
with appropriately - unfortunately this sometomes means going
into limp-home which some engineers take to mean very much reduced
performance - not good in the middle of the Sahara (my peronal opinion
was that the default should be limp home, with an option to accept
damage and override).

>
> I'm looking to find an EAS ECU I can pull to bits and see if
> I can make any sense of its gizzards. Since this might be
> impossible on a simple time scale I don't want to pay list
> for something I may trash. I'm watching Ebay hopefully.
>

I've not worked on the EAS, but I'd bet all the interesting stuff
is in software. If it were a Lucas ECU then, with appropriate
access meothods, it is possible to examine everything inside the
memory - Bosch and some others allow no access at all except through
diagnostics, which are not very comprehensive. There is also
sometimes sequetial logic employed to prevent reverse engineering
techniques being used on the hardware side.

> nigelH
>
>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On or around Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:14:55 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Richard Brookman wrote:
>> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>>
>>
>>>the dealer's a ****.
>>
>>
>> Nice tautology, Austin.
>>
>
>Fairly accurate too I'd say.

I think although I posted it rather in haste, that I stand by it - if we're
talking official dealer. You go to the dealer and pay (generally) high
prices for the "expert knowledge" of the marque. If you went to bert's
dodgy garage around the corner you'd epxect them not to be able to diagnose
an obscure fault and go "ah, 's yer ECU mate, get a new one" and suchlike,
swapping components until they got it right by luck. But the dealer
justifies his prices by the fact that his mechanics are better trained and
his equipment better, in theory.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded property of
a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcane
complexities. Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to
obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.
Today, all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is
available to anyone. - Tom Weller, Science Made Stupid, 1986
 
beamendsltd wrote:

> "Nigel Hewitt" wrote:
>> I think it's a software bug but then I'm an embedded systems
>> programmer so most of the Rangie CPUs look like a bug-fest
>> to me.
>
> I'd be surpised in there are many, if any, serious bugs. ECU
> softawre and hardware is considered mission, if not safety,
> critical (depending on application, obvioulsy the heater not working
> is "trivial") with all the design proofs and testing that is associated
> with it - I've done it in the automotive sector and it dull work.

Humm...
Collapse to 35mph mode and when the dealer resets the fault code it
all works perfectly for two months is hardly a 'mission critical'
philosophy in my book. OK so maybe the HSE isn't targeted as backwoods
truck but that sort of thing could be plain annoying in the middle of
one of those 'boulder strewn riverbeds' mentioned in the user guide.

>> My guess is that it is seeing a glitch cause by the sensors
>> getting old and instead of doing a second take it screams,
>> waves its hands in the air and hides under the bed.
>
> Sort of. For faults that can have adverse effects on the vehicle
> performance (as in being drivable, not go-faster) or safety the
> usual tactic is to log a soft fault on the first n events, and if
> the fault does not clear then log a hard fault that can be dealt
> with appropriately - unfortunately this sometomes means going
> into limp-home which some engineers take to mean very much reduced
> performance - not good in the middle of the Sahara (my peronal opinion
> was that the default should be limp home, with an option to accept
> damage and override).

That's what I'd like to add. A push-to-reset button so I can have
another two months would be nice.

>> I'm looking to find an EAS ECU I can pull to bits and see if
>> I can make any sense of its gizzards. Since this might be
>> impossible on a simple time scale I don't want to pay list
>> for something I may trash. I'm watching Ebay hopefully.
>
> I've not worked on the EAS, but I'd bet all the interesting stuff
> is in software. If it were a Lucas ECU then, with appropriate
> access meothods, it is possible to examine everything inside the
> memory - Bosch and some others allow no access at all except through
> diagnostics, which are not very comprehensive. There is also
> sometimes sequetial logic employed to prevent reverse engineering
> techniques being used on the hardware side.

Sadly agreed. While it is usually impossible to keep somebody out
who really wants in it isn't difficult to make it too hard for even
a professional in his spare time with all the gear to bother. I really
don't think there is anything clever in the stupid box so I may just
get annoyed and give up but I'd like to try. The problem is that
without a fix I can't even sell the truck with a clear conscience.

Anyway I found a box and I've paid for it so when it shows up and
comes to pieces on the bench I will know what I'm dealing with. I'll
report back. There has got to be some pay back for 30 years working
in high reliability embeded systems - that's mostly death support rather
than life support as it pays better.

nigelH


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Austin Shackles wrote:

> You go to the dealer and pay (generally) high
> prices for the "expert knowledge" of the marque. If you went to bert's
> dodgy garage around the corner you'd epxect them not to be able to diagnose
> an obscure fault and go "ah, 's yer ECU mate, get a new one" and suchlike,
> swapping components until they got it right by luck. But the dealer
> justifies his prices by the fact that his mechanics are better trained and
> his equipment better, in theory.

Sadly this didn't fix mine. Apparantly the second valve block
(no charge under warrentee) was put in on the advice of LR's
dealer support but it didn't fix things either. My dealer is
trying hard but we aren't there yet.

nigelH


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On or around Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:04:41 -0000, "Nigel Hewitt"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> You go to the dealer and pay (generally) high
>> prices for the "expert knowledge" of the marque. If you went to bert's
>> dodgy garage around the corner you'd epxect them not to be able to diagnose
>> an obscure fault and go "ah, 's yer ECU mate, get a new one" and suchlike,
>> swapping components until they got it right by luck. But the dealer
>> justifies his prices by the fact that his mechanics are better trained and
>> his equipment better, in theory.
>
>Sadly this didn't fix mine. Apparantly the second valve block
>(no charge under warrentee) was put in on the advice of LR's
>dealer support but it didn't fix things either. My dealer is
>trying hard but we aren't there yet.

likesay, in theory. sadly, at least sometimes, the dealer simply charges 4
times as much for the same results that Bert's Dodgy Motors achieve.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Brevis esse laboro, Obscurus fio" (it is when I struggle to be
brief that I become obscure) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Ars Poetica, 25
 
So I took the vehicle back to the Dealer.......They called today and said
that their mechanics were working through the issue with engineers at the
factory. Hey.. As least the story is a new one!

Will keep posting as to what they find.

Scott



<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scott wrote:
>
>> EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control module replace).
>> HELP!!!!!
>
> Wiring? If the bits at the end are new, the bits in between aren't and
> you get the same symptons I'd be looking very very very closely at the
> bits that were the same both times. Maybe see if you can get an auto
> electrician to look at it as opposed to a dealer zombie who just
> plugged in his computer.
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod
>


 
Here is another good one! The dealer gave me an LR3 with 4,000 miles and a
cracked windsheild as a loaner while they try to figure out the EAS
problems. Seems driving the LR3 for about 30 minutes results in a lit dash
yellow light that looks like a gear with an ! coming on. I looked in the
manual and it says the transmission is overheating. Hmmmmm.....maybe they
forgot to check the fluids. Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy......

Scott


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scott wrote:
>
>> EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control module replace).
>> HELP!!!!!
>
> Wiring? If the bits at the end are new, the bits in between aren't and
> you get the same symptons I'd be looking very very very closely at the
> bits that were the same both times. Maybe see if you can get an auto
> electrician to look at it as opposed to a dealer zombie who just
> plugged in his computer.
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod
>


 
The message <[email protected]>
from "Scott" <[email protected]> contains these words:

> I've got a 2000 HSE 4.6 with 38,000 miles. Four months ago the dash
> read EAS Fault. Took to the dealer and $2,500 later I had new air
> shocks, etc. 60 days later EAS Fault returned. Dealer said I needed
> new battery. 30 days later EAS fault returned and dealer said I need
> new control module. EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control
> module replace). HELP!!!!!

> Anyone have any thoughts?

> Scott

I have no experience of HSE only classic but a problem which used to
come up was poor
connection of height sensor it's dear little plug was constantly
bombarded with ****e from the wheel (especially rear) and it would alter
the circuit resistance, the height sensors were simple earthed
potentiometers so brain was misinformed and went ape.
another problem was drivers door open sensor.
 
The message <[email protected]>
from "Scott" <[email protected]> contains these words:
>
>> I've got a 2000 HSE 4.6 with 38,000 miles. Four months ago the dash
>> read EAS Fault. Took to the dealer and $2,500 later I had new air
>> shocks, etc. 60 days later EAS Fault returned. Dealer said I needed
>> new battery. 30 days later EAS fault returned and dealer said I need
>> new control module. EAS fault just returned (3 weeks after control
>> module replace). HELP!!!!!
>
>> Anyone have any thoughts?

Does the dealer actually have testbook and a pressure gauge? What
faults is testbook reporting?

Andy


 
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