DSE fuel injection adjustment
- Thread starter dannys
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You need a couple of special tools to do this. Have a look at RAVE for directions if you feel brave. A pin to set flywheel position and a DTI and special holder for it. If you have not got these don't try it. If you need to ask how to do it don't try it. You cannot advance or retard a fuel pump it has to be set absolutly correctly. Any advance of injection is done internally as dictated by the ECU. The only reason any static adjustment is required is because of stretch in the timing chain.
Well, you see, I dont have much choice as I just replaced a leaking fip and I have to adjust the 'new' one. Here is Israel there are not to many fellows who have the equipment anyway. We are not strong on BMW diesel.
Still, is there any indication I should look for in the diagnostics?
thanks!
Still, is there any indication I should look for in the diagnostics?
thanks!
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Static pump timing is a mechanical function there will be no indication on any electronic system of it's position. I am afraid it is something you just cannot guess at. There is a set proceedure for doing this. Follow directions in RAVE or get someone with the equipement to do it for you. It really is not a home mechanic job to do this.
SpudH
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In the help section of Faultmate software under Bosch EDC it gives the readings for Timing Modulation that you should get if the static timing is correct. This is how you check it.
If you own a Faultmate then you should be a member of the BBS forum. In the section on diesel fuel injection under Bosch EDC heading there is a 'sticky' thread giving clear instructions on how to adjust the static timing. It even gives advice on the tools required to get at the awkward bottom bolt.
HTH
If you own a Faultmate then you should be a member of the BBS forum. In the section on diesel fuel injection under Bosch EDC heading there is a 'sticky' thread giving clear instructions on how to adjust the static timing. It even gives advice on the tools required to get at the awkward bottom bolt.
HTH
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That reading will surely be with the engine running. If it is incorrect on diagnostics you have to stop engine and set static with DTI, you cannot adjust pump with engine running. Without use of DTI and flywheel lock any adjustments to pump will be guess work. This bloke has changed pump, removed sprocket, you cannot just guess pump, camshaft and flywheel position when replacing chain.
SpudH
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Agreed, I'm only telling him where to find the info on setting the static timing if he's doing it. If the pump has been installed without proper tools thats a whole different ball game.
And yeah, its a right tedious job that can't be done with the engine running. You have to disassemble the manifold, loosen and rotate the pump, put everything back on again, start it up, check with diags and repeat the process again and again until you get it right. And I don't know off hand which way will retard or advance so its pot luck on which way to go first.
Thats why I haven't bothered doing it myself even though mine is a bit off after the block was changed 50,000 miles ago.
BTW there is a timing kit for the BMW engine available on ebay for reasonable money, around £60 IIRC. Worth buying if someone was going at it.
And yeah, its a right tedious job that can't be done with the engine running. You have to disassemble the manifold, loosen and rotate the pump, put everything back on again, start it up, check with diags and repeat the process again and again until you get it right. And I don't know off hand which way will retard or advance so its pot luck on which way to go first.
Thats why I haven't bothered doing it myself even though mine is a bit off after the block was changed 50,000 miles ago.
BTW there is a timing kit for the BMW engine available on ebay for reasonable money, around £60 IIRC. Worth buying if someone was going at it.
wammers, let me see if I get the point: if the pump was removed, and a new pump replaced, when the engine is not at the correct flywheel position then the timing can not be properly set no matter what you do with the pump-position adjustment?
If this is indeed the case, do I need to remove the pump again and reinsert it on proper stroke?
Incidentally, it was my mechanic who replaced the pump. I knew he did not know what he was doing...
Thank you guys for your help.
If this is indeed the case, do I need to remove the pump again and reinsert it on proper stroke?
Incidentally, it was my mechanic who replaced the pump. I knew he did not know what he was doing...
Thank you guys for your help.
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OK, When pump is removed engine MUST be set at TDC No 1, you do this by rotating engine until No1 cam shaft lobes form a V, and the pin can be slide into flywheel to lock it in position. You then have to pull pump sprocket from pump. If he has managed to fit new pump WITHOUT removing or allowing chains to jump then all you have to do is static timing. If either of the two chains has been removed or jumped a tooth. On replacement with crank locked at No 1 TDC the two bright links in the bottom chain must line up with the indents in the pump and crank sprockets. When the cam chain is removed the cam will move slightly, there are specific instructions in RAVE, which i do not intend to go through here to set cam shaft in correct position. This can be done if you know what you are doing without the special cam holder, but a tooth out either way and you will have problems.
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Have had a look on Ebay, that is for engine timing not for pump timing. Pump timing requires a seperate kit, around £100.00 worth.
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They are on Ebay around £104.00 DTI gauge, adaptors, lock pin Etc. But that is ONLY for setting pump timing NOT for engine timing. Engine timing set is about £60.00, also on Ebay. Possibly cheaper at a tool supplier if you shop around. You get another pin with that set plus a camshaft positioner. Quite dear for what they are, but a lot cheaper than when the valves make love to the pistons if you get it wrong.
OK, got up and did it. I gathered all the tools and gauges, and replaced the FIP. Taking the old one off was easy, the timing hole on the flywheel was easy to locate with the timing pin. The groove in the sprocket that fits the Woodruff key was not straight up, but actually slightly to the side, say between 12 and 1 o'clock.
Put the new pump in, and tried timing it properly. I followed the RRAVE instructions to the letter but... After finding the gauge minimum rotating the engine clockwise (looking back-to-front) and inserting the timing pin, I had my father helping by rotating the engine while I was trying to locate the timing hole. This time, after only about 0.1 mm on the gauge, the pin sled in, but all the way through! I had to grab it so it wont fall through! and, even when the pin inserted, I could still rotate the engine about 0.2 mm on the gauge until the flywheel stopped. The pin has a small 8 mm section and is 11.8 mm all along (can anyone confirm this?). The thick part is for the hole in the casing, and the narrow for the timing holes on the flywheel, I suppose. So I could not properly adjust the timing.
Trying to start the engine resulted in a it firing briefly and dying in a huge puff of smoke.
What am I doing wrong?
Put the new pump in, and tried timing it properly. I followed the RRAVE instructions to the letter but... After finding the gauge minimum rotating the engine clockwise (looking back-to-front) and inserting the timing pin, I had my father helping by rotating the engine while I was trying to locate the timing hole. This time, after only about 0.1 mm on the gauge, the pin sled in, but all the way through! I had to grab it so it wont fall through! and, even when the pin inserted, I could still rotate the engine about 0.2 mm on the gauge until the flywheel stopped. The pin has a small 8 mm section and is 11.8 mm all along (can anyone confirm this?). The thick part is for the hole in the casing, and the narrow for the timing holes on the flywheel, I suppose. So I could not properly adjust the timing.
Trying to start the engine resulted in a it firing briefly and dying in a huge puff of smoke.
What am I doing wrong?
zzr1200
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If the timing pins can be installed then the timing should be OK.
Are you sure you are turning the engine in the direction of rotation (when its running). A work mate replaced the auto transmission in a Vauxhall Carlton with a BMW engine rotated the engine in the wrong direction to align the torque converter bolt holes, the hydraulic chain tensioner collapse allowing the timing chain to skip a tooth. He had to re-time the engine.
Are you sure you are turning the engine in the direction of rotation (when its running). A work mate replaced the auto transmission in a Vauxhall Carlton with a BMW engine rotated the engine in the wrong direction to align the torque converter bolt holes, the hydraulic chain tensioner collapse allowing the timing chain to skip a tooth. He had to re-time the engine.
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Thought you said a mechanic had already changed this pump but did not know what he was doing? You then say you have just changed it. How have you done that without releasing the tensioners? If a chain has jumped the sprocket you are in big trouble. Follow the directions in RAVE for replacing bottom chain or at least check it's positioning. Then fit pump and check positioning of camshaft as per RAVE. Fit of chains must be done with locating pin in crank and tensioners retracted. Only when this is done can you start to time pump by following RAVE instructions for checking pump timing. There is a sequence to follow engine at TDC No1, pin in crank, set bottom chain with bright links at detents in sprockets, fit pump. Position camshaft and fit top chain. Release tensioners. You can then do pump timing. We are talking hundredths of a millimetre on the DTI here between wrong and right. If you don't know what you are doing get someone who does. Unless you are VERY clued up this really is not a DIY job.
wammers, thanks for your help. Let me try to explain why I insist on doing it myself, even though I clearly do not have the experience.
Here is Israel, there are very few BMW diesel cars. I would even say that, until recently, the only BMW engines were on the dozen or so RR DSE's that were delivered here in 1999 and 2000. There are even fewer shops that can handle the adjustments required, or care to do it. The stealer here is, believe it or not, even more expensive than in the UK and less knowledgeable. So I dont really have a choice...
Regarding the pump, yes, it was replaced by this nincompoop, without the extraction tool or the locking pin. So, I took the pump out (it was leaking from the high-pressure seal) and put another one. I bought the tools, and replaced the pump as per RAVE, with the sprocket held in place with the extraction tool.
But, it looks like now I may be out of options. Tow to the stealer...
Here is Israel, there are very few BMW diesel cars. I would even say that, until recently, the only BMW engines were on the dozen or so RR DSE's that were delivered here in 1999 and 2000. There are even fewer shops that can handle the adjustments required, or care to do it. The stealer here is, believe it or not, even more expensive than in the UK and less knowledgeable. So I dont really have a choice...
Regarding the pump, yes, it was replaced by this nincompoop, without the extraction tool or the locking pin. So, I took the pump out (it was leaking from the high-pressure seal) and put another one. I bought the tools, and replaced the pump as per RAVE, with the sprocket held in place with the extraction tool.
But, it looks like now I may be out of options. Tow to the stealer...
the hooded claw
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There may be "Very Few Diesel cars" ..... BUT..... you got SHED LOADS of Tanks, APC's & Back up vehicles .. & Guess what ... MOST OF EM have BMW DIESEL ENGINES IN EM!!!
Go find a "Contact" in the milatary ..... THEY WILL have the Knowledge to assit you ....
Brilliant thought!
I would never have guessed it. And, almost everyone have a contact in the military. Start to investigate... Although I have to put it off for a while since I am work-traveling until July. Thanks!
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If that is the case, then it will pay you to go back to square one and do the engine timing, to be sure it is correct. Engine timing and pump timing are two seperate actions. If he has removed pump without extractor/positioner in place, it is possible the cam has jumped a tooth.
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