Dropped valve on TD5

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On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 13:30:53 +0100, [email protected] (Raoul
Donschachner) wrote:

>Uli <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> 3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.
>
>I am sorry, but that is what a friend of mine (running a workshop) has
>paid at the local Land Rover main dealer (also a friend of mine) so the
>prices are for sure correct. 3900 is list price, the rest was
>negotiation :)
>
>Raoul

But what did he buy? Turnkey engine, long engine, short engine,
block?

e3900 is about £2750. Add about a grand for fitting and it's not far
off what the OP was quoted.

--
Tim Hobbs
 
Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> But what did he buy? Turnkey engine, long engine, short engine,
> block?

I´ll ask tomorrow.

> e3900 is about £2750. Add about a grand for fitting and it's not far
> off what the OP was quoted.

An engine is fitted within 4 hours, nobody would pay 1000 pound for it.
And if somebody does, there remains a further 1000 pound gap to the 4700
the OP was quoted.

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
Raoul Donschachner wrote:

> Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But what did he buy? Turnkey engine, long engine, short engine,
>> block?
>
> I´ll ask tomorrow.
>
>> e3900 is about £2750. Add about a grand for fitting and it's not far
>> off what the OP was quoted.
>
> An engine is fitted within 4 hours, nobody would pay 1000 pound for it.
> And if somebody does, there remains a further 1000 pound gap to the 4700
> the OP was quoted.

At main dealer rates 4 hours is about £360, however I very much doubt the
book time (The time the authorised price guide says the job should take) is
only four hours. I could easily believe them book timing that procedure at
12 hours which would easily account for a grand - Book times are a con, but
that's what dealers use for their charging model.

P.
 
On or around Sun, 04 Dec 2005 20:30:08 +0000, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>At main dealer rates 4 hours is about £360, however I very much doubt the
>book time (The time the authorised price guide says the job should take) is
>only four hours. I could easily believe them book timing that procedure at
>12 hours which would easily account for a grand - Book times are a con, but
>that's what dealers use for their charging model.

oh, I dunno.

Could you do a disco gearbox change in 6 hours? Bloody sure I couldn't.

from the disco I book, ref TDi engine. Times in decimal hours, as per.


12.41 ENGINE ASSEMBLY
12.41.01 Engine &ancilliaries -renew

5 Speed 07.45
Auto 07.75

12.41.01/20 Engine &ancilliaries -renew -air conditioning fitted

5 Speed 07.55
Auto 07.85

12.41.02 Stripped engine -remove engine,change over ancilliary
equipment &refit

16.75

12.41.02/20 Stripped engine -remove engine,change over ancilliary
equipment &refit -air conditioning fitted

16.85

12.41.03 Part engine;remove,rebuild &refit engine,does not include
cylinder head(s)overhaul

21.45

12.41.03/20 Part engine;remove,rebuild &refit engine,does not include
cylinder head(s)overhaul -air conditioning fitted

21.60


so for example... taking 12.41.02, say, and labour at mebbe £60 per hour...
gets you near to a grand for labour.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> so for example... taking 12.41.02, say, and labour at mebbe £60 per
> hour... gets you near to a grand for labour.

I want your main dealer - the ones I've been near recently have been
charging £88-92 an hour.

P.
 
Paul S. Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> At main dealer rates 4 hours is about £360, however I very much doubt the
> book time (The time the authorised price guide says the job should take) is
> only four hours. I could easily believe them book timing that procedure at
> 12 hours which would easily account for a grand - Book times are a con, but
> that's what dealers use for their charging model.

Would you want to save money if you have a blown engine or do you want
to spend as much as possible?

The OP told us that he was quoted 4700 and I told him that it should be
possible to get this sorted for less quid. Not more. For me personally
it doesn´t matter were or at which branch anybody wants to spend his
money, I just wanted to point out, that there should be a cheaper
option.

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
Raoul Donschachner wrote:

> An engine is fitted within 4 hours, nobody would pay 1000 pound for it.
> And if somebody does, there remains a further 1000 pound gap to the 4700
> the OP was quoted.

Riiiight. So you'll be able to whip an engine out, remove & clean all
the ancillaries, reassemble them onto a bare long engine, refit said
engine, fill with necessary fluids and get it bled and running in 4
hours. I'll pay you 40 quid an hour to work in my workshop if you're
that quick, and I daresay the other mechanics here will match that offer
too.

--
EMB
 
On or around Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:51:31 +0000, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> so for example... taking 12.41.02, say, and labour at mebbe £60 per
>> hour... gets you near to a grand for labour.
>
>I want your main dealer - the ones I've been near recently have been
>charging £88-92 an hour.
>

I was guessing - never use 'em :)

but if so, then the labour rates for a swapover are even higher.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
 
EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

> Riiiight. So you'll be able to whip an engine out, remove & clean all
> the ancillaries, reassemble them onto a bare long engine, refit said
> engine, fill with necessary fluids and get it bled and running in 4
> hours. I'll pay you 40 quid an hour to work in my workshop if you're
> that quick, and I daresay the other mechanics here will match that offer
> too.

Thanks, but I run my own workshop and for myself, I am not that fast. I
can do it for a serious Land Rover if I am in hurry.

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
Raoul Donschachner wrote:

> EMB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Riiiight. So you'll be able to whip an engine out, remove & clean all
>> the ancillaries, reassemble them onto a bare long engine, refit said
>> engine, fill with necessary fluids and get it bled and running in 4
>> hours. I'll pay you 40 quid an hour to work in my workshop if you're
>> that quick, and I daresay the other mechanics here will match that offer
>> too.
>
> Thanks, but I run my own workshop and for myself, I am not that fast. I
> can do it for a serious Land Rover if I am in hurry.

Serious being a Series Diesel with minimal ancilliaries? (Just being curious
- not sarcastic)

P.
 
In message <[email protected]>, EMB <[email protected]> writes
>Raoul Donschachner wrote:
>
>> An engine is fitted within 4 hours, nobody would pay 1000 pound for it.
>> And if somebody does, there remains a further 1000 pound gap to the 4700
>> the OP was quoted.
>
>Riiiight. So you'll be able to whip an engine out, remove & clean all
>the ancillaries, reassemble them onto a bare long engine, refit said
>engine, fill with necessary fluids and get it bled and running in 4
>hours. I'll pay you 40 quid an hour to work in my workshop if you're
>that quick, and I daresay the other mechanics here will match that
>offer too.
>



Yes I agree with EMB
--
Marc Draper
 
Paul S. Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> Serious being a Series Diesel with minimal ancilliaries? (Just being curious
> - not sarcastic)

The last time I changed an engine and gearbox it took us 6 hours
alltogether. Two people, one just giving a helping hand.

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
In message <[email protected]>
Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> >>
> >
> >'scuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between a short engine
> >and a long engine?
> >
> >Dave.
>
> From RPI website (for a pushrod V8 of course)
>
> long engines include block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, timing gear &
> camshaft, heads and rocker assembles
>
> short engines include block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, timing gear
> & camshaft
>
> Given that the engine in question has had a valve banging about it in
> then a long engine seems to be the likely requirement.
>

"Long" engines are more usually referred to as "stripped" engines these
days.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
Raoul Donschachner wrote:
> Paul S. Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Serious being a Series Diesel with minimal ancilliaries? (Just being curious
>>- not sarcastic)
>
>
> The last time I changed an engine and gearbox it took us 6 hours
> alltogether. Two people, one just giving a helping hand.

Oh look - 12 hours of labour - right up where one would expect and
considerably different to the 4 hours you were claiming you could manage.


--
EMB
 
Raoul Donschachner wrote:

> Thanks, but I run my own workshop and for myself, I am not that fast. I
> can do it for a serious Land Rover if I am in hurry.

So you've just admitted to dragging the chain so you can charge
customers more. I hate dishonest mechanics whop load the bill up like that.


--
EMB
 
[quote=PDnes.

Whatever you do, the first thing you should do is find out exactly *WHY* the
engine went bang. If the problem is solely in the exhaust then your new
engine will experience the same problem.

--
S3 SWB Petrol Hard-top[/quote

you right in that this happens with 2 stroke engine but it wont happen with a 4 stroke.
if the engine was stopped quick enough after the valve dropped then the damage may not be too bad. you can count on the head being damaged and the top oif the piston aswell. but until you take the head off you wont know exactly what is damaged.
you may be lucky and get away with a new head or if you have a direct line to god it will just need a new valve fitting.
on the other hand it may have completely destroyed the head, the piston and rod and it would also have cracked the bloke/liner.
so whip yer heid orf and find out what happed inside. it is impossible for the garage or anybody else for that matter to say what the internal damage is without taking the head off.
 
EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

> Raoul Donschachner wrote:
>
> > Thanks, but I run my own workshop and for myself, I am not that fast. I
> > can do it for a serious Land Rover if I am in hurry.
>
> So you've just admitted to dragging the chain so you can charge
> customers more. I hate dishonest mechanics whop load the bill up like that.

Listen bugger, firstly I am no mechanic at all, secondly do we charge
fixed prices which our customers koew before they start and third, if
you dare to call me dishonest, come here and say it again, face to face.
If not, get lost.

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

> Oh look - 12 hours of labour - right up where one would expect and
> considerably different to the 4 hours you were claiming you could manage.

You are able to read?

Obviously not, cause I wrote about changing an engine plus gearbox from
a series Land Rover which involves such little time consumers as pulling
the seat box out of the car etc.

Are you, in any way, interested in helping the OP to solve his problem
cheaper or are you just interested in consuming my time?

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> But what did he buy? Turnkey engine, long engine, short engine,
> block?
>
> e3900 is about £2750. Add about a grand for fitting and it's not far
> off what the OP was quoted.

It was a long engine, I asked him today.
It was complete with head without ancilliaries and interestingly without
injectors. I would have thought, that they would be included in a long
engine.

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
In message <1h74ayh.gpdxg81lodas1N%[email protected]>, Raoul
Donschachner <[email protected]> writes
>Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But what did he buy? Turnkey engine, long engine, short engine,
>> block?
>>
>> e3900 is about £2750. Add about a grand for fitting and it's not far
>> off what the OP was quoted.
>
>It was a long engine, I asked him today.
>It was complete with head without ancilliaries and interestingly without
>injectors. I would have thought, that they would be included in a long
>engine.

Injectors are never part of a Long engine the same as you would not
expect an injection pump on a tdi long engine.


Td5 injectors are very expensive.


--
Marc Draper
 
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