Dropped valve on TD5

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M

MAB

Guest
Does anyone know anything about this?

What does it mean?

How does it happen?

I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
the cost is £4700.00.

They say it is beyond econimical repair.

T reg 108K


Any help or advice please?

MAB

 
In message <[email protected]>, MAB
<[email protected]> writes
>Does anyone know anything about this?
>
>What does it mean?
>
>How does it happen?
>
>I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
>the cost is £4700.00.
>
>They say it is beyond econimical repair.
>
>T reg 108K
>
>
>Any help or advice please?
>
>MAB
>



It means that a valve has dropped out of the cylinder head on to the top
of the piston. It could be just the head of the valve or the whole valve
and valve seat.

Chances are the solid lump of valve would have done a lot of damage next
time the piston came up to TDC. Damage would have been to both piston
and head and very possibly the bore as well.

Your main dealer does not have the facilities or the ability to repair
such damage but there is a possibility that an engine remanufacturer
would be able to save the bare bones of your engine.

Given the mileage it is probably best to follow their advice and go for
a new one.

Better still get to a good independent specialist and save a few quid
that way.

Good luck.
--
Marc Draper
 
Marc Draper <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:

> Given the mileage it is probably best to follow their advice and go
> for a new one.
>
> Better still get to a good independent specialist and save a few quid
> that way.
>
> Good luck.


Plenty of accident damaged motors around to provide a donor engine.

I wouldn't go the main dealer route unless money is no object and your
trying to burn some otherwise taxable funds.

Lee D


 
On 1 Dec, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "MAB" wrote:

> Does anyone know anything about this?
>
> What does it mean?
>
> How does it happen?
>
> I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
> the cost is £4700.00.
>
> They say it is beyond econimical repair.
>
> T reg 108K


Simply, one of the valve-stems broke and a chunk of metal dropped into
the cylinder

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
On Thursday 01 December 2005 15:40, MAB [[email protected]] wrote in
message <[email protected]>

> Does anyone know anything about this?


My Suzuki GS125 dropped an exhaust valve while doing 60mph at over
10,000rpm.

brrrrrrrrrr-BANG-BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-clinkclinkclink-bugger!

> What does it mean?


It means one of the valves has fallen apart and dropped into the combustion
chamber. Because the bits of valve are not generally compressible this
tends to leave your engine looking like a manic gremlin armed with a
jackhammer has tried to get out.

> How does it happen?


Usually over-revving, running too lean and therefore too hot or a
combination of the two. Sometimes valves just feel like falling apart.

My motorbike engine fell apart because I was over-revving and the exhaust
baffles had been gradually rotting out which meant the exhaust was
breathing more and more freely which meant the engine was running more and
more lean. Engines generally run hot when they run lean.

> I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
> the cost is £4700.00.


That's steep. Maybe that's the price for a brand new engine but I'd be
surprised if you can't find something for a 10th of the price.

> They say it is beyond econimical repair.


Maybe for them. Have you tried getting a quote from a specialist engine
rebuilder?

I guess the crank is ok and if the conrod isn't bent you just need a new
head, new piston and either a rebore or have the piston relined and
machined to fit the new piston.

Either way, it's a specialist job.

Look for a good 2nd hand engine of the same type or maybe try a different of
engine. I hear nothing but good thing about Daihatsu 2.8 engines.

Whatever you do, the first thing you should do is find out exactly *WHY* the
engine went bang. If the problem is solely in the exhaust then your new
engine will experience the same problem.

--
S3 SWB Petrol Hard-top
 
PDannyD wrote:
> On Thursday 01 December 2005 15:40, MAB [[email protected]] wrote in
> message <[email protected]>
>
>>I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
>>the cost is £4700.00.

>
>
> That's steep. Maybe that's the price for a brand new engine but I'd be
> surprised if you can't find something for a 10th of the price.


Given that the reasonably priced Mr Beamends wants 2800 quid for a td5
short engine, that's not totally outrageous when you take removal,
reconditioning the head, assembling, and refitting into account.


--
EMB
 
EMB wrote:
> PDannyD wrote:
>> On Thursday 01 December 2005 15:40, MAB [[email protected]] wrote
>> in message <[email protected]>
>>
>>> I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed
>>> and the cost is £4700.00.

>>
>>
>> That's steep. Maybe that's the price for a brand new engine but I'd
>> be surprised if you can't find something for a 10th of the price.

>
> Given that the reasonably priced Mr Beamends wants 2800 quid for a td5
> short engine, that's not totally outrageous when you take removal,
> reconditioning the head, assembling, and refitting into account.


What are the chances of the head being good enough to recondition?

Huw


 
On or around Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:54:52 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>PDannyD wrote:
>> On Thursday 01 December 2005 15:40, MAB [[email protected]] wrote in
>> message <[email protected]>
>>
>>>I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
>>>the cost is £4700.00.

>>
>>
>> That's steep. Maybe that's the price for a brand new engine but I'd be
>> surprised if you can't find something for a 10th of the price.

>
>Given that the reasonably priced Mr Beamends wants 2800 quid for a td5
>short engine, that's not totally outrageous when you take removal,
>reconditioning the head, assembling, and refitting into account.


I could quite believe a complete new engine ex-works at £4700.

However, I bet you can get a s/h one from a breaker for a fifth of that, if
you look around. 'course, the main dealers aren't interested in looking for
a s/h engine...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On Friday 02 December 2005 04:54, EMB [[email protected]] wrote in message
<[email protected]>

> PDannyD wrote:
>> On Thursday 01 December 2005 15:40, MAB [[email protected]] wrote in
>> message <[email protected]>
>>
>>>I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
>>>the cost is £4700.00.

>>
>>
>> That's steep. Maybe that's the price for a brand new engine but I'd be
>> surprised if you can't find something for a 10th of the price.

>
> Given that the reasonably priced Mr Beamends wants 2800 quid for a td5
> short engine, that's not totally outrageous when you take removal,
> reconditioning the head, assembling, and refitting into account.


Ok, "a 10th" was a bit of an exaggeration due to trying out Glen Orrin
whisky from Aldi (a blended malt, much cheapness!) but for £4700 I'd expect
it to be a brand new or just run-in engine fitted and tuned and insured "as
new".

--
S3 SWB Petrol Hard-top
 

>Ok, "a 10th" was a bit of an exaggeration due to trying out Glen Orrin
>whisky from Aldi (a blended malt, much cheapness!) but for £4700 I'd expect
>it to be a brand new or just run-in engine fitted and tuned and insured "as
>new".


That's probably what they are quoting. At main dealer rates I'd want
a new long engine dropped in rather than spend £80 an hour building up
a second-hand one from cheaper parts. Especially given the likelihood
of the 'mechanic' actually doing it right.

If the car is otherwise good it may not be a bad investment, but a
specialist will be able to fit the same brand new engine for
substantially less.

Was the engine properly maintained from new? That's not big mileage
when considered against the sort of distances the 300 and old V8 are
routinely capable of.



--
Tim Hobbs
 
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:23:02 +0000, PDannyD
<[email protected]> scribbled the
following nonsense:

>On Thursday 01 December 2005 15:40, MAB [[email protected]] wrote in
>message <[email protected]>
>
>
>Look for a good 2nd hand engine of the same type or maybe try a different of
>engine. I hear nothing but good thing about Daihatsu 2.8 engines.
>
>Whatever you do, the first thing you should do is find out exactly *WHY* the
>engine went bang. If the problem is solely in the exhaust then your new
>engine will experience the same problem.



Hmm TD5 to 2.8 diahatsu....

While not a fan of electronics, I know which I would prefer....
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....
 
MAB <[email protected]> wrote:

> I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
> the cost is £4700.00.


The price is much too high!

I know that an Austrian Land Rover main dealer can sell a new TD5 for
3500¤ ex. VAT. So it should be at least the same price in GB!

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.


"Raoul Donschachner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h6yo93.17mng5s1p664hnN%[email protected]...
> MAB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I am advised by my main dealer that a replacement engine is needed and
>> the cost is £4700.00.

>
> The price is much too high!
>
> I know that an Austrian Land Rover main dealer can sell a new TD5 for
> 3500¤ ex. VAT. So it should be at least the same price in GB!
>
> Raoul
> --
> ==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
> I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
> from the steering wheel.



 
On or around Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:08:38 +0200, "Uli" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.
>


why not?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
 
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:20:46 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:08:38 +0200, "Uli" <[email protected]>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.
>>

>
>why not?


Sounds mega cheap. Of course, there are engines and engines. I've
recently put a V8 in the skip. Just needed pistons, heads, sump,
timing gear, valves, water pump, oil pump.....

e3500 looks like a short engine price. The 4 grand odd originally
mentioned was a 'repaired' price, which I took to include a new or
factory-recon lump, head and fitting. Removal, repair and refitting
would surely be at least 2 days work - well over a grand just for
labour at main dealer prices.

When my Alfa blew its engine the dealer told me the price for a new
engine would have been over 4K. That was about 4-5 years ago.

--
Tim Hobbs
 
On or around Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:55:16 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:20:46 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:08:38 +0200, "Uli" <[email protected]>
>>enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.
>>>

>>
>>why not?

>
>Sounds mega cheap. Of course, there are engines and engines. I've
>recently put a V8 in the skip. Just needed pistons, heads, sump,
>timing gear, valves, water pump, oil pump.....
>
>e3500 looks like a short engine price. The 4 grand odd originally
>mentioned was a 'repaired' price, which I took to include a new or
>factory-recon lump, head and fitting. Removal, repair and refitting
>would surely be at least 2 days work - well over a grand just for
>labour at main dealer prices.


OP said "engine beyond economic repair, needs replacement. I took that to
mean either a full factory recon or a new one.

If the thing's dropped a valve, then the chances are the head's knackered
and maybe other stuff like the turbo if it was running fast at the time.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:55:16 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>>On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:20:46 +0000, Austin Shackles
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On or around Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:08:38 +0200, "Uli" <[email protected]>
>>>enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>
>>>>3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.
>>>>
>>>
>>>why not?

>>
>>Sounds mega cheap. Of course, there are engines and engines. I've
>>recently put a V8 in the skip. Just needed pistons, heads, sump,
>>timing gear, valves, water pump, oil pump.....
>>
>>e3500 looks like a short engine price. The 4 grand odd originally
>>mentioned was a 'repaired' price, which I took to include a new or
>>factory-recon lump, head and fitting. Removal, repair and refitting
>>would surely be at least 2 days work - well over a grand just for
>>labour at main dealer prices.

>
>
> OP said "engine beyond economic repair, needs replacement. I took that to
> mean either a full factory recon or a new one.
>
> If the thing's dropped a valve, then the chances are the head's knackered
> and maybe other stuff like the turbo if it was running fast at the time.
>


'scuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between a short engine
and a long engine?

Dave.
 

"Dave Gibbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
> > On or around Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:55:16 +0000, Tim Hobbs

<[email protected]>
> > enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >
> >>On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:20:46 +0000, Austin Shackles
> >><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On or around Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:08:38 +0200, "Uli"

<[email protected]>
> >>>enlightened us thusly:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>why not?
> >>
> >>Sounds mega cheap. Of course, there are engines and engines.

I've
> >>recently put a V8 in the skip. Just needed pistons, heads, sump,
> >>timing gear, valves, water pump, oil pump.....
> >>
> >>e3500 looks like a short engine price. The 4 grand odd originally
> >>mentioned was a 'repaired' price, which I took to include a new or
> >>factory-recon lump, head and fitting. Removal, repair and

refitting
> >>would surely be at least 2 days work - well over a grand just for
> >>labour at main dealer prices.

> >
> >
> > OP said "engine beyond economic repair, needs replacement. I took

that to
> > mean either a full factory recon or a new one.
> >
> > If the thing's dropped a valve, then the chances are the head's

knackered
> > and maybe other stuff like the turbo if it was running fast at the

time.
> >

>
> 'scuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between a short

engine
> and a long engine?
>
> Dave.


Without / with head

AWEM


 
>>
>
>'scuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between a short engine
>and a long engine?
>
>Dave.


From RPI website (for a pushrod V8 of course)

long engines include block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, timing gear &
camshaft, heads and rocker assembles

short engines include block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, timing gear
& camshaft

Given that the engine in question has had a valve banging about it in
then a long engine seems to be the likely requirement.

--
Tim Hobbs
 
Uli <[email protected]> wrote:

> 3.500 Euro + VAT? That can't be true.


I am sorry, but that is what a friend of mine (running a workshop) has
paid at the local Land Rover main dealer (also a friend of mine) so the
prices are for sure correct. 3900 is list price, the rest was
negotiation :)

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
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