DIY LPG kit on a DIY turbo 2 1/4 diesel!

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On or around Sat, 05 Feb 2005 11:52:29 +0000, [email protected]
enlightened us thusly:

>As to whether it can give better economy I'd like to be convinced. You
>can get better economy by buying a cheaper fuel or increasing
>combustion efficiency (all other things in the engine being equal). I
>cannot see more than a few parts of a % available by better combustion
>but would be pleased to hear it could. LPG contains 68% of diesel at
>our local pumps per unit of heat energy and costs half, so at full
>fueling there is potential for a 40% saving, at 40% substitution this
>drops to 16% and at 8% to 3.2%.

well, if you can save 16% it could be worth it if you do a lot of miles.

'ere, that thing about the turbo... the mixer, being a venturi (of sorts)
responds to airflow. more revs, more turbo boost, more airflow, more fuel,
which ought to be what you want...

AIUI you can fumigate to quite a high percentage by turning the diesel down
to compensate. never tried it though - it might be bollocks.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
On or around Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:36:39 +0000 (UTC), "SimonJ" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>>
>> Thinking about using oxyaccetaline type pipe with a barbs soldered onto
>the
>> 8mm stuff so should be ok between the tank and the vaporiser then.
>>
>Totally unsuitable, the pipe from the tank to the vaporiser is unregulated,
>full pressure liquid. Oxy & Acetylene pipes are for regulated gas only.
>

dunno what pressure they take, though. I expect they're good for at least
50psi.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:53:26 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
>I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for my
>DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
>systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
>like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a DIY
>system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?
>
>I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler to
>tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
>could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
>sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better use
>copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
>
>The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked "Idle"
>and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also, between
>the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
>engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control unit".
>I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big brass
>screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
>control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
>
>Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression from
>the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
>the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
>Thanks! Toby
>

I've been reading this and your other posts in this thread. You may be
a mechanical engineer, but what you are firts and formost is a danger
to yourself and your environment. Cease and desist. You have NO
inkling of what you are doing.

Peter R, who will nut be entering the UK untill he reads of the
explosion.

 
On or around Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:18:42 +0100, Peter R.
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:53:26 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>I've been reading this and your other posts in this thread. You may be
>a mechanical engineer, but what you are firts and formost is a danger
>to yourself and your environment. Cease and desist. You have NO
>inkling of what you are doing.
>
>Peter R, who will nut be entering the UK untill he reads of the
>explosion.

now be fair, he's not actually *done* all this. He asked first, which is
sensible. And I can see the point in a temporary rig for testing, if you
don't know whether it'll work.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 

"Peter R." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:53:26 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
> >I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for
my
> >DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
> >systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
> >like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a
DIY
> >system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?
> >
> >I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler
to
> >tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
> >could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
> >sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better
use
> >copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
> >
> >The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked
"Idle"
> >and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also,
between
> >the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
> >engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control
unit".
> >I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big
brass
> >screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
> >control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
> >
> >Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression
from
> >the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
> >the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
> >Thanks! Toby
> >
>
> I've been reading this and your other posts in this thread. You may be
> a mechanical engineer, but what you are firts and formost is a danger
> to yourself and your environment. Cease and desist. You have NO
> inkling of what you are doing.
>
> Peter R, who will nut be entering the UK untill he reads of the
> explosion.
>

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There you go :O)
safe


 
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:23:59 -0000, "Angus McCoatup"
<[email protected]> made me spill my meths when he wrote:

>BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<Bloke going down> Do you know anything about parachutes?
<Bloke going up> No! Do you know anything about fitting LPG systems?


--

Wayne Davies, Harrogate 07989 556213

Just another point of view...
www.4x4prejudice.org
 
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:43:26 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>well, if you can save 16% it could be worth it if you do a lot of miles.

Yes but you need to amortise the cost of conversion over a much lower
saving than a petrol to lpg conversion for probably the same cost.
>
>'ere, that thing about the turbo... the mixer, being a venturi (of sorts)

Yes I believe it is a simple venturi when the pressure at the mixer is
set just about atmospheric.

>responds to airflow. more revs, more turbo boost, more airflow, more fuel,
>which ought to be what you want...

But the suck at the venturi is proportional to the change in velocity
of the air flow either side of it, and is probably measured in
fractions of an inch of water gauge, the boost from the turbo will be
from atmospheric up to maybe 1 atmosphere (30 foot water gauge) when
the waste gate blows off. So for the diaphragm to be able to supply
the vapour to the venturi at just about inlet manifold pressure, so
the mix can be metered proportional to the air flow, both sides of the
diaphragm would need to see turbo boost pressure.
>
>AIUI you can fumigate to quite a high percentage by turning the diesel down
>to compensate. never tried it though - it might be bollocks.

It's an interesting problem and one that must be well suited to
electronic control. The problem is that diesel must be injected to
initiate the flame, if there is too much propane present the diesel
won't burn out cleanly because the propane being intimately mixed with
the air will use it up faster than the diffuse diesel flame can grab
it, if the proportion of lpg in the intake is near stoich then the
diesel burning will cause detonation of the lpg:air mix at the
pressures typical of a diesel. So it might be that the op's limit of
40% is enough extra energy to give more power without causing pinking
or black smoke.

AJH

 

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:23:59 -0000, "Angus McCoatup"
> <[email protected]> made me spill my meths when he wrote:
>
> >BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> <Bloke going down> Do you know anything about parachutes?
> <Bloke going up> No! Do you know anything about fitting LPG systems?


LOL!! :O)


 
In message <[email protected]>, TVS
<[email protected]> writes
>For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
>I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for my
>DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
>systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
>like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a DIY
>system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?
>
Nothing similar to the Corgi system although the LPGA would have us all
think there is. Use of LPG for automotive propulsion is covered by
Construction & Use Regulations, although to be fair (Oops that's a
first) to the LPGA their COP 11 Code of practice is pretty much the same
thing and more readable. All equipment must also conform to EU
standards, the number for which I never could be bothered to remember.

Many insurance companies insist on LPGA certification of the
installation.
>I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler to
>tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
>could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
>sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better use
>copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
>
There is no pressure regulator on the tank. The pressure is whatever is
required to keep the propane in liquid form at the ambient temperature.
As someone has already mentioned LPG can be very dangerous. It is
heavier than air and when released can form a rolling invisible carpet
along the ground. Don't be fooled into thinking it's gone when the white
vapour disappears. That's condensed water vapour. It has been known for
a flash back to be originated over 100 metres from the leaking tank. It
will also for example happily accumulate unseen in a garage pit. Do not
"just sleeve it" with high pressure hose. Use correct fittings. I don't
mind you blowing yourself up, I'm just thinking about your family or
neighbours.
>The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked "Idle"
>and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also, between
>the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
>engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control unit".
>I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big brass
>screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
>control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
>
>Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression from
>the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
>the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
>Thanks! Toby
>
>
Yes but you will almost certainly get far too much gas out using
standard car equipment.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>On or around Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:13:43 +0100, Peter R.
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>Mebbie you sould instal a spel tsjekker
>>
>>It rilly looks naf wen an engeneer kant spel.
>>
>
>yebbut, engineers CBA to learn to trype prperly.
>
>I can spell fine, it's me fingers that can't.
>
My fingers aer dyslexic.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, TVS
<[email protected]> writes
>> >I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler
>to
>> >tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
>> >could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
>> >sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better
>use
>> >copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
>>
>> filler-to-tank can be flexible hose, with suitable fittings (which are
>> crimped on by the manufacturer) or copper (summat like 10mm OD) with
>flared
>> ends or olives, depending on the types of valve. Tank-to-vapouriser is
>> normally 6mm OD copper.
>>
>> The pressures can go up to close to 200 psi, though more normally it's
>about
>> 100, so sleeving it with hose is not recommended.
>
>Thinking about using oxyaccetaline type pipe with a barbs soldered onto the
>8mm stuff so should be ok between the tank and the vaporiser then. The
>problem will be filling the tank as I don't think it would look very good
>with it all siting loose in the back of the landy at the filling station!
>Besides which the stiff copper pipe between the filler and tank would be too
>risky all unsuported in the back. Do need to fill the tank some how whilst
>its in the development stage tho... Humm.
>
>> >The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked
>"Idle"
>> >and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also,
>between
>> >the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
>> >engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control
>unit".
>> >I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big
>brass
>> >screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
>> >control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
>>
>> You presume correctly. What make of vapouriser? The screw marked "idle"
>> may adjust a slow fixed LPG supply, or it may adjust spring tension in the
>> vapouriser. The other screw may do the spring tension, or it might be a
>> drain plug if it's at the bottom, for draining heavy ends.
>
>The Vaporiser is made by err.. is it Mcemme? Its made in Italy, can't quite
>make out the first two letters! I've conected it up to a airline and turned
>the pressure down to 30psi. Yep, the idle screw seems to be a VERY course
>adustment of the base flow rate. There is a plug on the bottom, but this
>looks like an adustment screw..
>
>> >Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression
>from
>> >the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
>> >the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
>>
>> pretty much, yeah. something like a scuba thing, I believe. more airflow
>> in the inlet tract makes more depression in the mixer, which moves the
>> diaphragm in the vapouriser, letting more gas through.
>
>I did put my lips around the pipe to the mixer and sucked (Oh matron!) and
>it did let more compresed air thought it. Heheh. So yep, that proves that
>one!
>
>> You'll be well advised to start off with it set to deliver as little gas
>as
>> possible, for a diesel application.
>>
>> Are you trying to get more power, or cheaper running? If the former, you
>> want a small (ish) amount of gas a t high power settings only. If the
>> latter, then you want more gas, but you turn the diesel pump down so it
>> delivers less fuel.
>
>From what I can find, around 8% LPG is suposed to give the best ecconimy
>with around 30-40% giving maxumum power. I'll be able to tell exactly from
>testing, but if I set it up for around 75-80hp maximum (save blowing the
>engine to pices!) and aim for best econimy at cruse. I'm thinking about
>trying the mixer in a simple drawthough setup first between the airfilter
>and the turbo but am wondering if I should try and controle the flow of LPG
>from boost presure and/or RPM.
>Thanks! Toby
>
>
Forget about achieving better economy with this type of system. We used
boost pressure to switch the gas on/off but you could also use throttle
position. A temperature switch is also advisable as it is not
recommended to put in LPG into a cold engine. You will also need an LPG
flow meter to make fine adjustments. They're not the easiest of things
to get hold of but they are around.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 

"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, TVS
> <[email protected]> writes

<<snip>>

>>> You'll be well advised to start off with it set to deliver as little gas
>>as
>>> possible, for a diesel application.
>>>
>>> Are you trying to get more power, or cheaper running? If the former,
>>> you
>>> want a small (ish) amount of gas a t high power settings only. If the
>>> latter, then you want more gas, but you turn the diesel pump down so it
>>> delivers less fuel.
>>
>>From what I can find, around 8% LPG is suposed to give the best ecconimy
>>with around 30-40% giving maxumum power. I'll be able to tell exactly from
>>testing, but if I set it up for around 75-80hp maximum (save blowing the
>>engine to pices!) and aim for best econimy at cruse. I'm thinking about
>>trying the mixer in a simple drawthough setup first between the airfilter
>>and the turbo but am wondering if I should try and controle the flow of
>>LPG
>>from boost presure and/or RPM.
>>Thanks! Toby
>>
>>
> Forget about achieving better economy with this type of system. We used
> boost pressure to switch the gas on/off but you could also use throttle
> position. A temperature switch is also advisable as it is not recommended
> to put in LPG into a cold engine. You will also need an LPG flow meter to
> make fine adjustments. They're not the easiest of things to get hold of
> but they are around.
> --

I played around with a 200TDi with gas early last year on a rally log-booked
disco! To be honest, it was rubbish.
The gas was throttled by an extra throttle valve (Block of ally machined to
produce a slide plate throttle, with seals of course) so that the gas only
came in progressively from about 3/4 engine throttle upwards. There's a
spare one available if you are interested, it bolts on where the aircon pump
would go and you just need to assemble a linkage to the existing throttle
links at the injector pump.
I really can't say that I noticed a big difference in power with the gas
switched on. It was running almost 2 bar boost pressure, with the diesel
fuelling backed off to allow excess oxygen for the lpg burn, but no matter
what adjustments were made to the gas side it really didn't pull that much
better. I had my suspicions about the general engine condition though,
because I've driven quicker standard 200tdi disco's, even allowing for the
extra weight of the roll cage, gas tank, underbody protection, tripmeters,
fire extinguisher systems etc etc. The mixer was at the turbo inlet, not
something I was overly enthusiastic about when you consider the volume of
pipework etc being filled with a weak gas mixture.
Badger.


 
In message <[email protected]>, Badger
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In message <[email protected]>, TVS
>> <[email protected]> writes
>
><<snip>>
>
>>>> You'll be well advised to start off with it set to deliver as little gas
>>>as
>>>> possible, for a diesel application.
>>>>
>>>> Are you trying to get more power, or cheaper running? If the former,
>>>> you
>>>> want a small (ish) amount of gas a t high power settings only. If the
>>>> latter, then you want more gas, but you turn the diesel pump down so it
>>>> delivers less fuel.
>>>
>>>From what I can find, around 8% LPG is suposed to give the best ecconimy
>>>with around 30-40% giving maxumum power. I'll be able to tell exactly from
>>>testing, but if I set it up for around 75-80hp maximum (save blowing the
>>>engine to pices!) and aim for best econimy at cruse. I'm thinking about
>>>trying the mixer in a simple drawthough setup first between the airfilter
>>>and the turbo but am wondering if I should try and controle the flow of
>>>LPG
>>>from boost presure and/or RPM.
>>>Thanks! Toby
>>>
>>>
>> Forget about achieving better economy with this type of system. We used
>> boost pressure to switch the gas on/off but you could also use throttle
>> position. A temperature switch is also advisable as it is not recommended
>> to put in LPG into a cold engine. You will also need an LPG flow meter to
>> make fine adjustments. They're not the easiest of things to get hold of
>> but they are around.
>> --
>
>I played around with a 200TDi with gas early last year on a rally log-booked
>disco! To be honest, it was rubbish.
>The gas was throttled by an extra throttle valve (Block of ally machined to
>produce a slide plate throttle, with seals of course) so that the gas only
>came in progressively from about 3/4 engine throttle upwards. There's a
>spare one available if you are interested, it bolts on where the aircon pump
>would go and you just need to assemble a linkage to the existing throttle
>links at the injector pump.
>I really can't say that I noticed a big difference in power with the gas
>switched on. It was running almost 2 bar boost pressure, with the diesel
>fuelling backed off to allow excess oxygen for the lpg burn, but no matter
>what adjustments were made to the gas side it really didn't pull that much
>better. I had my suspicions about the general engine condition though,
>because I've driven quicker standard 200tdi disco's, even allowing for the
>extra weight of the roll cage, gas tank, underbody protection, tripmeters,
>fire extinguisher systems etc etc. The mixer was at the turbo inlet, not
>something I was overly enthusiastic about when you consider the volume of
>pipework etc being filled with a weak gas mixture.
>Badger.
>
>
If you back off the diesel and only allow enough in to ignite the gas
then basically all you've done is change your 2.5 turbo diesel to a 2.5
turbo gas.

If you want more power you've got to burn both.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:50:57 +0000, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>If you back off the diesel and only allow enough in to ignite the gas
>then basically all you've done is change your 2.5 turbo diesel to a 2.5
>turbo gas.

Yes
>
>If you want more power you've got to burn both.

There is always the need to burn both, because the ci engine will not
reach a high enough compression temperature to spontaneously ignite
the gas, and if it did it would all detonate at once, the reason that
this does not happen with diesel is that the diesel is injected over a
finite period, combustion can only, initially, happen around the
droplets. The reason it does not detonate in a spark ignition engine
is that the pressure is lower and the flame front travels smoothly
through the premixed gas and air.

The art of this fumigation must be in judging just how much of diesel
and gas is best.

The only reason, that I can see, the gas will increase the power over
diesel alone is that you could run at stoichiometric ratio, which
diesels generally don't. I wonder if there is also the possibility of
higher revs because the gas:air reaction will complete far quicker
than the injector pulse and subsequent burn out?

AJH

 

"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<<snip>>
> If you back off the diesel and only allow enough in to ignite the gas
> then basically all you've done is change your 2.5 turbo diesel to a 2.5
> turbo gas.
>
> If you want more power you've got to burn both.
> --
Well aware of that Hugh, the diesel was backed off by approximately 10-15%
at a rough guess, enough to notice the difference pulling up a local hill,
but adding gas didn't even seem to restore the lost power, even up to the
point of increasing the gas until it was smoking heavily on the reduced
diesel. Just didn't seem to work out all that well whatever we tried, hence
my thoughts about the basic engine being rather tired.
Not that it really mattered anyway, wandering off-topic slightly, the owner
was ****-scared to use the power it had on a forest rally stage, let alone
any extra! He blamed the handling, we blamed his bottle! He fitted a video
camera to the roll cage and video'd most of last year's "snowman rally", but
got upset whilst playing it back in the service area when I announced "ok,
so when are you going to select high range, my 110 goes through forests
quicker"! Oops.
Badger.


 
Badger wrote:

> Not that it really mattered anyway, wandering off-topic slightly, the owner
> was ****-scared to use the power it had on a forest rally stage, let alone
> any extra! He blamed the handling, we blamed his bottle! He fitted a video
> camera to the roll cage and video'd most of last year's "snowman rally", but
> got upset whilst playing it back in the service area when I announced "ok,
> so when are you going to select high range, my 110 goes through forests
> quicker"! Oops.

Lots of bottle-less drivers out there! I thought I was doing ok out in
some fairly rough stuff recently until a mate's wife came flying past in
their Pajero - in her case I think she's just too inexperienced to know
what's safe (but maybe the problem's with my bottle).


--
EMB
 
On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:00:04 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Badger wrote:
>
>> Not that it really mattered anyway, wandering off-topic slightly, the owner
>> was ****-scared to use the power it had on a forest rally stage, let alone
>> any extra! He blamed the handling, we blamed his bottle! He fitted a video
>> camera to the roll cage and video'd most of last year's "snowman rally", but
>> got upset whilst playing it back in the service area when I announced "ok,
>> so when are you going to select high range, my 110 goes through forests
>> quicker"! Oops.
>
>Lots of bottle-less drivers out there! I thought I was doing ok out in
>some fairly rough stuff recently until a mate's wife came flying past in
>their Pajero - in her case I think she's just too inexperienced to know
>what's safe (but maybe the problem's with my bottle).

Mind, I tend to the view that slower is better on rough stuff, unless you
have to go faster to get through it. I always try things slowly first time;
if it don't go, you can always try a bit more speed.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:00:04 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
<<snip>>
>>Lots of bottle-less drivers out there! I thought I was doing ok out in
>>some fairly rough stuff recently until a mate's wife came flying past in
>>their Pajero - in her case I think she's just too inexperienced to know
>>what's safe (but maybe the problem's with my bottle).

She'd make a good rally driver then - no brain, no pain! Unfortunately I
wouldn't make a good rally driver - I know my limits!!

>
> Mind, I tend to the view that slower is better on rough stuff, unless you
> have to go faster to get through it. I always try things slowly first
> time;
> if it don't go, you can always try a bit more speed.

yep, lot to be said for that approach Austin, just that it doesn't wash when
its a competitive event against the clock.
Badger.


 
On or around Tue, 8 Feb 2005 09:09:01 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>yep, lot to be said for that approach Austin, just that it doesn't wash when
>its a competitive event against the clock.
>Badger.

well, that goes without saying. Unless, of course, it's one of those where
accuracy counts, and speed gets you hitting penalty gates...


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849
 
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