DIY LPG kit on a DIY turbo 2 1/4 diesel!

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T

TVS

Guest
For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for my
DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a DIY
system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?

I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler to
tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better use
copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!

The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked "Idle"
and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also, between
the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control unit".
I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big brass
screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?

Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression from
the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
Thanks! Toby


 

"TVS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
> I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for
> my
> DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
> systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
> like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a
> DIY
> system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?

Not until it all goes pear-shaped and your insurance get an inspection done!

> I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler
> to
> tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
> could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
> sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better use
> copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!

If you use anything other than the correct copper pipe and olives, then
assuming you live within the northern hemisphere, please emigrate to the
southern one!!! You cannot use anything other than the correct kit or you
are driving a mobile time-bomb.

> The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked
> "Idle"
> and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do?

The one that isn't marked is the tension screw, it effectively controls the
rate of opening of the vapouriser in response to manifold depression.

> Also, between
> the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
> engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control
> unit".
> I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big
> brass
> screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
> control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?

Yes, remove the whole thing and fit the correct manual adjusting valve,
don't muck about with things, the slightest leak could cause a build-up of
gas within your engine bay, with dire consequences.

> Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression from
> the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
> the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?

Yes.
May I politely suggest that you go and get someone who knows what they are
doing to at least guide and assist you, as you give me the impression that
you haven't got a clue about LPG systems and I really fear for your safety -
LPG is dangerous stuff if not handled correctly.
Badger.


 
On or around Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:53:26 -0000, "TVS"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
>I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for my
>DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
>systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
>like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a DIY
>system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?

didn't realise you were looking at a diesel, be careful you don't get a
runaway. If you get the fuel wrong, it can...

>I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler to
>tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
>could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
>sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better use
>copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!

filler-to-tank can be flexible hose, with suitable fittings (which are
crimped on by the manufacturer) or copper (summat like 10mm OD) with flared
ends or olives, depending on the types of valve. Tank-to-vapouriser is
normally 6mm OD copper.

The pressures can go up to close to 200 psi, though more normally it's about
100, so sleeving it with hose is not recommended.

>The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked "Idle"
>and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also, between
>the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
>engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control unit".
>I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big brass
>screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
>control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?

You presume correctly. What make of vapouriser? The screw marked "idle"
may adjust a slow fixed LPG supply, or it may adjust spring tension in the
vapouriser. The other screw may do the spring tension, or it might be a
drain plug if it's at the bottom, for draining heavy ends.

>Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression from
>the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
>the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?

pretty much, yeah. something like a scuba thing, I believe. more airflow
in the inlet tract makes more depression in the mixer, which moves the
diaphragm in the vapouriser, letting more gas through.

You'll be well advised to start off with it set to deliver as little gas as
possible, for a diesel application.

Are you trying to get more power, or cheaper running? If the former, you
want a small (ish) amount of gas a t high power settings only. If the
latter, then you want more gas, but you turn the diesel pump down so it
delivers less fuel.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 

"TVS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
> I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing for
my
> DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for LPG
> systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated bit
> like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a
DIY
> system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?
>
> I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler
to
> tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
> could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
> sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better use
> copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
>
> The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked
"Idle"
> and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also,
between
> the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
> engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control
unit".
> I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big
brass
> screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
> control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
>
> Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression from
> the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
> the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?

All in all in my opinion it sounds like a recipe for disaster


 
> May I politely suggest that you go and get someone who knows what they are
> doing to at least guide and assist you, as you give me the impression that
> you haven't got a clue about LPG systems and I really fear for your
safety -
> LPG is dangerous stuff if not handled correctly.

May I politely inform you than I happen to be a fully qualified Mechanical
Engineer and am also an experienced Mechanic. I do appreciate your obviously
strong concerns for safety but I can't help but feel you should reserve your
hasty and overly critical judgements in a public forum until you know all
the facts. No where have I suggested that I will be driving around with a
setup of this nature. This is purely experimental for building up a
performance map from testing on an engine dynamometer. Perhaps I should have
stated this in my post but I was asking for technical information and wasn't
expecting my competence to be in questioned.
Toby


 

"TVS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> May I politely suggest that you go and get someone who knows what they
>> are
>> doing to at least guide and assist you, as you give me the impression
>> that
>> you haven't got a clue about LPG systems and I really fear for your
> safety -
>> LPG is dangerous stuff if not handled correctly.
>
> May I politely inform you than I happen to be a fully qualified Mechanical
> Engineer and am also an experienced Mechanic. I do appreciate your
> obviously
> strong concerns for safety but I can't help but feel you should reserve
> your
> hasty and overly critical judgements in a public forum until you know all
> the facts. No where have I suggested that I will be driving around with a
> setup of this nature. This is purely experimental for building up a
> performance map from testing on an engine dynamometer. Perhaps I should
> have
> stated this in my post but I was asking for technical information and
> wasn't
> expecting my competence to be in questioned.
> Toby
>
Which was why I "politely suggested", so please get off your high horse. My
judgement was neither hasty nor overly critical, based on your comments. If
you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions in a public forum in the
first place.
If you are indeed as skilled as you say then you should be aware of the
dangers of what you suggested re. flexible hose for a liquid feed. It was
that comment that worried me, hence my response. FWIW, your comments re.
certification led me (and no doubt others) to believe you were indeed
intending this set-up for road use. As I said, your post gave the impression
(based on the questions that you asked) that you knew little or nothing
about LPG systems, hence my suggestion to seek guidance or assistance. I do
not think that was an unreasonable suggestion. However, to avoid any further
"snappy" replies, I for one will not respond to you again in the future.
Badger.


 
Badger wrote:
> "TVS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>> May I politely suggest that you go and get someone who knows what
>>> they are
>>> doing to at least guide and assist you, as you give me the
>>> impression that
>>> you haven't got a clue about LPG systems and I really fear for your
>>> safety - LPG is dangerous stuff if not handled correctly.
>>
>> May I politely inform you than I happen to be a fully qualified
>> Mechanical Engineer and am also an experienced Mechanic. I do
>> appreciate your obviously
>> strong concerns for safety but I can't help but feel you should
>> reserve your
>> hasty and overly critical judgements in a public forum until you
>> know all the facts. No where have I suggested that I will be driving
>> around with a setup of this nature. This is purely experimental for
>> building up a performance map from testing on an engine dynamometer.
>> Perhaps I should have
>> stated this in my post but I was asking for technical information and
>> wasn't
>> expecting my competence to be in questioned.
>> Toby
>>
> Which was why I "politely suggested", so please get off your high
> horse. My judgement was neither hasty nor overly critical, based on
> your comments. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions
> in a public forum in the first place.
> If you are indeed as skilled as you say then you should be aware of
> the dangers of what you suggested re. flexible hose for a liquid
> feed. It was that comment that worried me, hence my response. FWIW,
> your comments re. certification led me (and no doubt others) to
> believe you were indeed intending this set-up for road use. As I
> said, your post gave the impression (based on the questions that you
> asked) that you knew little or nothing about LPG systems, hence my
> suggestion to seek guidance or assistance. I do not think that was an
> unreasonable suggestion. However, to avoid any further "snappy"
> replies, I for one will not respond to you again in the future.
> Badger.

I feel you may have both been a tad snappy there!!

;~)

Nige

--
Subaru WRX (The Bitch)

Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)

"If you tolerate this then your children will be next"


 
> Which was why I "politely suggested", so please get off your high horse.
My
> judgement was neither hasty nor overly critical, based on your comments.
If
> you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions in a public forum in
the
> first place.
> If you are indeed as skilled as you say then you should be aware of the
> dangers of what you suggested re. flexible hose for a liquid feed. It was
> that comment that worried me, hence my response. FWIW, your comments re.
> certification led me (and no doubt others) to believe you were indeed
> intending this set-up for road use. As I said, your post gave the
impression
> (based on the questions that you asked) that you knew little or nothing
> about LPG systems, hence my suggestion to seek guidance or assistance. I
do
> not think that was an unreasonable suggestion. However, to avoid any
further
> "snappy" replies, I for one will not respond to you again in the future.
> Badger.


I was about to reply to my own post appologising for beeing perhaps a bit
out of order in my reply but I strongley recent your sugestion that I'm on
my "high horse". Certification is my consern for when I fit a setup to my
landrover and I wasn't clear that my "throw it together" aproach for testing
wasn't for vheicle use. I still feel your reply was overly scorn full and
patronising when others have answered my questions very helpfully and
freindly.
If you ever ask a question hear I wouldn't be childish and willl answer as
fully and helpfully as I can. Toby


 
> >I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original filler
to
> >tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
> >could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
> >sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better
use
> >copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
>
> filler-to-tank can be flexible hose, with suitable fittings (which are
> crimped on by the manufacturer) or copper (summat like 10mm OD) with
flared
> ends or olives, depending on the types of valve. Tank-to-vapouriser is
> normally 6mm OD copper.
>
> The pressures can go up to close to 200 psi, though more normally it's
about
> 100, so sleeving it with hose is not recommended.

Thinking about using oxyaccetaline type pipe with a barbs soldered onto the
8mm stuff so should be ok between the tank and the vaporiser then. The
problem will be filling the tank as I don't think it would look very good
with it all siting loose in the back of the landy at the filling station!
Besides which the stiff copper pipe between the filler and tank would be too
risky all unsuported in the back. Do need to fill the tank some how whilst
its in the development stage tho... Humm.

> >The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked
"Idle"
> >and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also,
between
> >the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to the
> >engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control
unit".
> >I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big
brass
> >screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
> >control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
>
> You presume correctly. What make of vapouriser? The screw marked "idle"
> may adjust a slow fixed LPG supply, or it may adjust spring tension in the
> vapouriser. The other screw may do the spring tension, or it might be a
> drain plug if it's at the bottom, for draining heavy ends.

The Vaporiser is made by err.. is it Mcemme? Its made in Italy, can't quite
make out the first two letters! I've conected it up to a airline and turned
the pressure down to 30psi. Yep, the idle screw seems to be a VERY course
adustment of the base flow rate. There is a plug on the bottom, but this
looks like an adustment screw..

> >Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression
from
> >the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the higher
> >the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
>
> pretty much, yeah. something like a scuba thing, I believe. more airflow
> in the inlet tract makes more depression in the mixer, which moves the
> diaphragm in the vapouriser, letting more gas through.

I did put my lips around the pipe to the mixer and sucked (Oh matron!) and
it did let more compresed air thought it. Heheh. So yep, that proves that
one!

> You'll be well advised to start off with it set to deliver as little gas
as
> possible, for a diesel application.
>
> Are you trying to get more power, or cheaper running? If the former, you
> want a small (ish) amount of gas a t high power settings only. If the
> latter, then you want more gas, but you turn the diesel pump down so it
> delivers less fuel.

From what I can find, around 8% LPG is suposed to give the best ecconimy
with around 30-40% giving maxumum power. I'll be able to tell exactly from
testing, but if I set it up for around 75-80hp maximum (save blowing the
engine to pices!) and aim for best econimy at cruse. I'm thinking about
trying the mixer in a simple drawthough setup first between the airfilter
and the turbo but am wondering if I should try and controle the flow of LPG
from boost presure and/or RPM.
Thanks! Toby


 
On or around Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:31:34 -0000, "TVS"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I was about to reply to my own post appologising for beeing perhaps a bit
>out of order in my reply but I strongley recent your sugestion that I'm on
>my "high horse".

well, it did come over like that. And I certainly from what you've been
asking gained the impression you were doing a conversion to go on the road.
There are indeed people who would put together a dangerous lash-up and mores
the pity, some of them are in the trade; luckily not many.

as to the rest, well a) you never said you were an engineer (or if you did I
missed it), or what kind, and b) What you said made Badger (and indeed me)
think that you didn't know what you were doing and were about to create a
dangerous bodge. If you want to read "respectfully suggest" as a criticism,
rather than as what it says, then that's up to you.

>Certification is my consern for when I fit a setup to my
>landrover and I wasn't clear that my "throw it together" aproach for testing
>wasn't for vheicle use. I still feel your reply was overly scorn full and
>patronising when others have answered my questions very helpfully and
>freindly.

I've seen Badger's postings for some considerable time, and I don't agree.
If he'd thought you were a prat, he'd probably have said so in so many
words.

so both of you come and shake hands and start afresh. I agree with Nige,
you're both being a bit hasty.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
 
On or around Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:59:03 -0000, "TVS"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>From what I can find, around 8% LPG is suposed to give the best ecconimy
>with around 30-40% giving maxumum power. I'll be able to tell exactly from
>testing, but if I set it up for around 75-80hp maximum (save blowing the
>engine to pices!) and aim for best econimy at cruse. I'm thinking about
>trying the mixer in a simple drawthough setup first between the airfilter
>and the turbo but am wondering if I should try and controle the flow of LPG
>from boost presure and/or RPM.
>Thanks! Toby

If I were you I'd put the mixer between the turbo and the engine. You don't
want flammable gas in a hot turbo... would really want in intercooler as
well, I should think (which improves the efficiency anyway, so you go

filter > turbo > intercooler > mixer > engine.

Make absolutely sure if you do a temporary liquid propane connection that
it'll take the pressure. I'd want to see at least 200psi-proof, I reckon.
If you dump liquid gas from a slip pipe, you get *lots* of vapour -
something like 250 times the volume, I believe, some such silly-sounding
figure.

What kind of valve on the tank? is it a single-hole thing with a
multi-valve in, or a 4-holer? If the latter, you can probably get a
flexible filler hose. Mind, if the valve's wrong, you'd need the tank empty
to change it. Is the tank actually empty? it's not easy to empty them. I
have a spare one in the yard which still has gas in it; might get around to
doing something with it one day...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
 
Riding a landrover with DIY LPG is like playing Rugby League ! Just don't
know if youre gonna get back home alive. Every time I look in the back of my
Landrover and see that tank with a big round dial on it reminds me of a bomb
ready to go off! Just like having a 18 stone Brick sh*t house ready to Break
nearly every bone in your body!
Life's a risk Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it blows up it's meant to be....
Adrian Ford
"Angus McCoatup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "TVS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > For you LPG gurus out there I've got a few more Qs!
> > I've now got a mixer, vaporiser and donut tank from a 1.4 Dawoo thing
for
> my
> > DIY diesel project. Probably a good time to ask about regulations for
LPG
> > systems. I'm sure I've heard they need to be checked and certificated
bit
> > like the Corgie registration system. Is this going to be a problem on a
> DIY
> > system or isn't anybody going to be any the wiser?
> >
> > I'll have to get some a good length of copper pipe as the original
filler
> to
> > tank and tank to vaporiser pipe had to be cut. Any recommended places? I
> > could just sleeve it with high pressure rubber pipe to try it tho.. What
> > sort of pressure is the regulator on the tank set to? I think I better
use
> > copper pipe with compression fittings to fill the tank!!
> >
> > The vaporiser had two screws on it as far as I can see. One is marked
> "Idle"
> > and the other isn't marked at all. Any pointers what these do? Also,
> between
> > the mixer and vaporiser is a solenoid valve that must map the flow to
the
> > engine requirements, it was after all connected to a "lambda control
> unit".
> > I'll just remove this and blank off the hole. But there is also a big
> brass
> > screw in the same housing, looks like its perhaps for course manual flow
> > control. I presume this is used to set the max flow?
> >
> > Does the vaporiser work like a "demand valve"? So a slight depression
from
> > the venturie in the mixer causes the gaseous LPG to flow, with the
higher
> > the depression the more LPG. Basically like a simple carboreta?
>
> All in all in my opinion it sounds like a recipe for disaster
>
>


 
> I've seen Badger's postings for some considerable time, and I don't agree.
> If he'd thought you were a prat, he'd probably have said so in so many
> words.
>
> so both of you come and shake hands and start afresh. I agree with Nige,
> you're both being a bit hasty.

This is always a very freindly and helpfull newsgroup and I woudln't want to
do anything to change that. I think we have probably got of on the wrong
foot, so to speak, and this is just a clash of personalities and not a
personal thing as I might have taken it to be.
I hope Badger will meet me half way and start afresh. Sorry! Toby


 
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:31:34 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Which was why I "politely suggested", so please get off your high horse.
>My
>> judgement was neither hasty nor overly critical, based on your comments.
>If
>> you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions in a public forum in
>the
>> first place.
>> If you are indeed as skilled as you say then you should be aware of the
>> dangers of what you suggested re. flexible hose for a liquid feed. It was
>> that comment that worried me, hence my response. FWIW, your comments re.
>> certification led me (and no doubt others) to believe you were indeed
>> intending this set-up for road use. As I said, your post gave the
>impression
>> (based on the questions that you asked) that you knew little or nothing
>> about LPG systems, hence my suggestion to seek guidance or assistance. I
>do
>> not think that was an unreasonable suggestion. However, to avoid any
>further
>> "snappy" replies, I for one will not respond to you again in the future.
>> Badger.
>
>
>I was about to reply to my own post appologising for beeing perhaps a bit
>out of order in my reply but I strongley recent your sugestion that I'm on
>my "high horse". Certification is my consern for when I fit a setup to my
>landrover and I wasn't clear that my "throw it together" aproach for testing
>wasn't for vheicle use. I still feel your reply was overly scorn full and
>patronising when others have answered my questions very helpfully and
>freindly.
>If you ever ask a question hear I wouldn't be childish and willl answer as
>fully and helpfully as I can. Toby
>

Mebbie you sould instal a spel tsjekker

It rilly looks naf wen an engeneer kant spel.

Peter R.
 

"TVS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> I've seen Badger's postings for some considerable time, and I don't
>> agree.
>> If he'd thought you were a prat, he'd probably have said so in so many
>> words.
>>
>> so both of you come and shake hands and start afresh. I agree with Nige,
>> you're both being a bit hasty.
>
> This is always a very freindly and helpfull newsgroup and I woudln't want
> to
> do anything to change that. I think we have probably got of on the wrong
> foot, so to speak, and this is just a clash of personalities and not a
> personal thing as I might have taken it to be.
> I hope Badger will meet me half way and start afresh. Sorry! Toby
>
Fair enough, sorry. Matter forgotten.
Badger.


 
On or around Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:13:43 +0100, Peter R.
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Mebbie you sould instal a spel tsjekker
>
>It rilly looks naf wen an engeneer kant spel.
>

yebbut, engineers CBA to learn to trype prperly.

I can spell fine, it's me fingers that can't.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.
 
On or around Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:34:55 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>If you dump liquid gas from a slip pipe,

slip?? that was meant to be split.

buggrit, must learn to type properly one day.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.
 
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:35:54 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> made me spill my meths when he wrote:

>On or around Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:34:55 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>If you dump liquid gas from a slip pipe,
>
>slip?? that was meant to be split.
>
>buggrit, must learn to type properly one day.

S'metric keyboards innit, don't work with Imperial digits


--

Wayne Davies, Harrogate 07989 556213

Just another point of view...
www.4x4prejudice.org
 
>
> Thinking about using oxyaccetaline type pipe with a barbs soldered onto
the
> 8mm stuff so should be ok between the tank and the vaporiser then.
>
Totally unsuitable, the pipe from the tank to the vaporiser is unregulated,
full pressure liquid. Oxy & Acetylene pipes are for regulated gas only.


 
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:34:55 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:59:03 -0000, "TVS"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>From what I can find, around 8% LPG is suposed to give the best ecconimy
>>with around 30-40% giving maxumum power. I'll be able to tell exactly from
>>testing, but if I set it up for around 75-80hp maximum (save blowing the
>>engine to pices!) and aim for best econimy at cruse. I'm thinking about
>>trying the mixer in a simple drawthough setup first between the airfilter
>>and the turbo but am wondering if I should try and controle the flow of LPG
>>from boost presure and/or RPM.
>>Thanks! Toby
>
>If I were you I'd put the mixer between the turbo and the engine. You don't
>want flammable gas in a hot turbo... would really want in intercooler as
>well, I should think (which improves the efficiency anyway, so you go
>
>filter > turbo > intercooler > mixer > engine.

I think Austin is right from the safety angle, you don't really want
the whole intake between turbo compressor and valve full of an
explosive mix, but air:propane mixes will only support a flame near
stoich and op is talking about fumigating in the 8% and 40% region of
the energy in (the balance still made up by diesel), as diesels run
well lean of stoich up to over fueling (black smoke in exhaust) I'll
bet a backfire could not support an explosion, never tried it though.
The only fumigation with propane I did was on a 6cyl direct injection
ford tractor engine, it certainly cleaned up the exhaust visibly at
idle and put the revs up.

The other thing is under the above scenario the pressure from the
turbo compressor will need compensating at the diaphragm, as it varies
with power output.

As to whether it can give better economy I'd like to be convinced. You
can get better economy by buying a cheaper fuel or increasing
combustion efficiency (all other things in the engine being equal). I
cannot see more than a few parts of a % available by better combustion
but would be pleased to hear it could. LPG contains 68% of diesel at
our local pumps per unit of heat energy and costs half, so at full
fueling there is potential for a 40% saving, at 40% substitution this
drops to 16% and at 8% to 3.2%.

The power gain moving from exav of 1.2 to stoich is likely to be 20%.
>
>Make absolutely sure if you do a temporary liquid propane connection that
>it'll take the pressure. I'd want to see at least 200psi-proof, I reckon.
>If you dump liquid gas from a slip pipe, you get *lots* of vapour -
>something like 250 times the volume, I believe, some such silly-sounding
>figure.

A rough calculation gives me a vapour to liquid:volume ratio of ~400:1
at 0C for propane.

AJH
 
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