Discovery Shock Absorbers Turret - snapped bolt...

Hi all,

On changing both struts on the Discovery today I managed, upon
tightening, to snap off one of the four bolts holding the shock
turret.

What's the best thing for me to do? It's the one inside the engine
compartment below the air box that's gone. Is it safe to drive around
on three ?

Advice appreciated....

Mmmmm I would be careful, three will affect the suspension geometry. Drive
it carefully and no off road.

I would personally replace all the bolts with Stainless Steel ones.

A

"Datch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> On changing both struts on the Discovery today I managed, upon
> tightening, to snap off one of the four bolts holding the shock
> turret.
>
> What's the best thing for me to do? It's the one inside the engine
> compartment below the air box that's gone. Is it safe to drive around
> on three ?
>
> Advice appreciated....

"Andrew Renshaw" <andrew.hart.i hate [email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> Mmmmm I would be careful, three will affect the suspension geometry. Drive
> it carefully and no off road.
>
> I would personally replace all the bolts with Stainless Steel ones.
>
> A
>
You can't, the four "bolts" are captive on a ring that is trapped by the
spring, you have to do all four by replacing the ring. Next time use a
torque wrench.

Peter.

On or around Sun, 9 Jan 2005 23:28:15 -0000, "Peter Seddon"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Andrew Renshaw" <andrew.hart.i hate [email protected]> wrote in message
>news:%[email protected]...
>> Mmmmm I would be careful, three will affect the suspension geometry. Drive
>> it carefully and no off road.
>>
>> I would personally replace all the bolts with Stainless Steel ones.
>>
>> A
>>
>You can't, the four "bolts" are captive on a ring that is trapped by the
>spring, you have to do all four by replacing the ring. Next time use a
>torque wrench.

There're only 3 on mine at the moment on one side. The other side has 2 on
the inner side and is welded on the outside. But then they're David "Llama"
ones with open sides, so they don't have to come off to change the dampers.

Mine sheared on removal, BTW. If I could've got spare rings and bolts I'd
have replaced 'em, but that wasn't an option on the day.

BTW, the 3 bolts on the one will NOT affect geometry. The only thing that
can happen is that *if* the 3 bolts were to shear the damper would stop
working, doubtless with much clunking and banging. The only thing that
turret does is locate the top of the damper. The axle is located by the
radius arms and the panhard rod, and the turret breaking loose (not likely)
will not affect that or the spring.

steel tends to have tensile strengh something around 16tons/sq inch. those
bolts are 5/16" UNF, and thus will have a root CSA of something around
1/16sq.in., and thus 3 of them will need a force of 3 tons to break 'em.
The only way I can see you'd get that is if the bump stop on the chassis is
missing (I notice one of mine is, must get it replaced) and for the damper
to top out hard in off-roading, say. The damper shouldn;t be able to top
out with the axle bump stop (rubber block on the chassis) in place, that's
what it's there for.

I can't see normal damping forces getting that high.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

In <[email protected]> Datch wrote:
> On changing both struts on the Discovery today I managed, upon
> tightening, to snap off one of the four bolts holding the shock
> turret.
>
> What's the best thing for me to do? It's the one inside the engine
> compartment below the air box that's gone. Is it safe to drive around
> on three ?

It's safe in as much as your axle isn't going to fall off.... if the
rest of the bolts shear though the shock absorber at that side won't do
a lot.

The problem with running 3 bolts is that the turret is prone to twisting
sideways and after a time it will either stress and snap the other bolts
or the turret itself will crack.

IMV it's crazy to "bodge" this kind of thing, the bolts are captive -
mounted into a ring that is clamped between the spring and the top mount.
Replacement rings cost a few quid each and, even starting from scratch,
it'll take an hour at most to fit a new one... (you need to either
remove the spring or at least open up enough of a gap between the spring
and the mount to drop the old ring out and put the new one in.

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

On or around Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:02:26 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>IMV it's crazy to "bodge" this kind of thing, the bolts are captive -
>mounted into a ring that is clamped between the spring and the top mount.
>Replacement rings cost a few quid each and, even starting from scratch,
>it'll take an hour at most to fit a new one... (you need to either
>remove the spring or at least open up enough of a gap between the spring
>and the mount to drop the old ring out and put the new one in.

fair comment, but sometimes it's not practical to replace the ring with
bolts, as in my case, when I needed the thing fixed rapidly for the MOT and
new rings/bolts were not readily to hand.

Apart from the fact that it should in an ideal world have the full
complement of bolts, I don't see how it would twist with 3 bolts fitted,
since 2 of them are opposite eachother. It could equally well be fitted
with 2 larger bolts, diametrically opposite, I reckon. The forces on it
basically act straight up and down.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

three will affect the suspension geometry.

Pray, how?

> You can't, the four "bolts" are captive on a ring that is trapped by the
> spring, you have to do all four by replacing the ring.

It is possible to use a bolt to repair the ring but it'll have to come
off for that. It's so easy to do that trying alternatives is just not
worth the effort.

In <[email protected]> Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:02:26 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>IMV it's crazy to "bodge" this kind of thing, the bolts are captive -
>>mounted into a ring that is clamped between the spring and the top
>>mount. Replacement rings cost a few quid each and, even starting from
>>scratch, it'll take an hour at most to fit a new one... (you need to
>>either remove the spring or at least open up enough of a gap between
>>the spring and the mount to drop the old ring out and put the new one
>>in.
>
> fair comment, but sometimes it's not practical to replace the ring
> with bolts, as in my case, when I needed the thing fixed rapidly for
> the MOT and new rings/bolts were not readily to hand.

> Apart from the fact that it should in an ideal world have the full
> complement of bolts, I don't see how it would twist with 3 bolts
> fitted, since 2 of them are opposite eachother. It could equally well
> be fitted with 2 larger bolts, diametrically opposite, I reckon. The
> forces on it basically act straight up and down.

The problem is that the lip of the turret is only fairly thin anyway,
depriving it of 25 percent of it's load bearing area is liable to find
any weaknesses. I had a turret fail on a challenge event, in your neck
of the woods as it happens, a few years ago - The failure started with a
crack around one of the bolts (the inside one). Once it lost the support
of that bolt a stress fracture developed until after half a days hard
competition the turret failed completely. Obviously the fact the first
crack appeared showed that the turret was on it's last legs anyway but
the speed that the cracks accelerated once the first bolt was "bypassed"
was amazing.

Part of the problem may have been that the suspension geometry of a Land
Rover means that the axle moves further left as it moves upwards so the
angle of the shock absorber (and in turn the direction forces act in)
moves from side to side slightly and also back and forth. Obviously long
travel suspension doesn't help the situation !

Needless to say that that was the last competition I did with standard
LR turrets

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

In message <[email protected]>
Dave White <[email protected]> wrote:

> In <[email protected]> Austin Shackles wrote:
> > On or around Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:02:26 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
> > <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>IMV it's crazy to "bodge" this kind of thing, the bolts are captive -
> >>mounted into a ring that is clamped between the spring and the top
> >>mount. Replacement rings cost a few quid each and, even starting from
> >>scratch, it'll take an hour at most to fit a new one... (you need to
> >>either remove the spring or at least open up enough of a gap between
> >>the spring and the mount to drop the old ring out and put the new one
> >>in.
> >
> > fair comment, but sometimes it's not practical to replace the ring
> > with bolts, as in my case, when I needed the thing fixed rapidly for
> > the MOT and new rings/bolts were not readily to hand.
>
> > Apart from the fact that it should in an ideal world have the full
> > complement of bolts, I don't see how it would twist with 3 bolts
> > fitted, since 2 of them are opposite eachother. It could equally well
> > be fitted with 2 larger bolts, diametrically opposite, I reckon. The
> > forces on it basically act straight up and down.
>
> The problem is that the lip of the turret is only fairly thin anyway,
> depriving it of 25 percent of it's load bearing area is liable to find
> any weaknesses. I had a turret fail on a challenge event, in your neck
> of the woods as it happens, a few years ago - The failure started with a
> crack around one of the bolts (the inside one). Once it lost the support
> of that bolt a stress fracture developed until after half a days hard
> competition the turret failed completely. Obviously the fact the first
> crack appeared showed that the turret was on it's last legs anyway but
> the speed that the cracks accelerated once the first bolt was "bypassed"
> was amazing.
>
> Part of the problem may have been that the suspension geometry of a Land
> Rover means that the axle moves further left as it moves upwards so the
> angle of the shock absorber (and in turn the direction forces act in)
> moves from side to side slightly and also back and forth. Obviously long
> travel suspension doesn't help the situation !
>
> Needless to say that that was the last competition I did with standard
> LR turrets
>
> cheers
>
> Dave W.
> http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

If you get a crack, in the turret or anywhere else for that matter,
drilling a small hole at the end(s) of the crack will help a great
deal in preventing it gowing - obviously this could be tricky
on a windscreen!

Cheers
Richard

--
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