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Discovery 4 or 5

Discussion in 'Land Rover Discovery' started by lightning, Jun 19, 2022.

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  1. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    It is a shame about the TDV6 engines and the risk, although I'm not sure how much chance there really is of an individual having an issue with one. And other car makes and engines also have issues too. Very rare for a vehicle to have no vices at all. No matter who makes it.

    The TDV6 is used in many many vehicles, not just the D3/4. Jags, Pugs, Citroens. I suspect the actual percentage of failures is pretty low overall.

    As said, if you don't need a 6 seater, take a look at the Range Rover's (including the L322). The TDV8 engine is very nice. I drove my Uncles L405 RR round Wales a few weeks back and got 32mpg from, which is superb considering the power output and performance of the things.

    L322 full fat RR available with the 3.6 or 4.4 TDV8, easily within your budget. petrol V8's available too, but tbh I really don't think you'll get a frugal petrol in anything of this size/weight class with a good tow rating.

    L320 Range Rover Sport can be had with the 3.6 TDV8. These use the same chassis as the D3/4 but a slightly shorter wheelbase.

    L405 full fat Range Rover and L494 Range Rover Sport share a platform and many parts. Both very good vehicles and should be well within your budget. Lots of engine choices, although again the TDV8's probably the best of the bunch overall.

    Unlike many above, I'd certainly still advocate a Land Rover product.


    As for alternatives. I must admit I do rather like the Shogun. Overall very capable. But there is no denying that they are in a class down from the RR's and the like in terms of luxury. The interiors are very grey and plastic by comparison. Functional, but not very luxury. The are also pretty slow, only one engine option in the UK being the 3.2 diesel with just shy of 200hp. Good vehicles and several notches up in comfort/refinement over a traditional Defender, but very different to a Disco 4.

    Wrangler - now these I do really like. Although like the Defender, prices are frankly nuts on them. I suspect your budget would get you into a JK, which was launched in the UK back in 2006 for just under £20k believe it or not. At some point along the way, Jeep doubled the price on them. So residuals are crazy strong. The JK is a very very good traditional live axle 4x4. It is closest in sprit to your current Defender, but built for recreation rather than utility. Early JK's could be had with a manual 6 speed gearbox, but are rare or a 4 speed auto. Around 2011 they got an interior facelift, a bit more power and all became autos (5 speed I think). The only engine in the UK is the 2.8 diesel. It gives similar performance to the 2.7 TDV6 Disco 3 or the Shogun. But much slower than a 3.0 TDV6 Disco 4 or the TDV8's.

    Do remember the Wrangler is an off road focused recreational vehicle with a ladder frame chassis and live axles. While it will be more comfy and refined over a traditional Defender. It isn't the same class as a Disco 4 in this regard. They will drive like a proper 4x4. The roof is completely removable, as are the doors and the windscreen can even be folded down. A very cool and capable vehicle. But not a luxury setting by any means.

    If you want to tow, you'll want to check the specs out. In the USA a Wrangler has a pitiful tow rating (not due to physics or mechanical parts, I believe due to politics & marketing, they'd rather you bought a pickup truck to tow with). In the UK they generally get a better tow rating than the US, but I think it is only the LWB Unlimited version, not the SWB 3 door one. Online specs also get these mixed up a lot. But well worth confirming before you buy.

    The biggest thing with the JK Wrangler is, it was a completely new design in 2005 (USA launch). It didn't carry over any parts really. The Defender on the other hand was more of an evolution from 1983 thru to 2016. A Wrangler should be nicer on road than a Td5 or Puma Defender 110 in all regards.

    The JL version of the Wrangler was lunched in 2017. But not sure if they would be in your budget. The JL improves on the JK in every area, with some new engine options and more tech inside.

    For your budget, I suspect you could also look at an older G-Wagon if they take your fancy. Again quite similar to a Defender or Wrangler. But more comfort and refinement than the Defender. They also hold money well, but at least you could buy with the knowledge that it won't really depreciate.

    There really is quite a lot of choice for £30-35k IMO.

    Lots of crossover SUV's too if any take your fancy. Although many will be far less rugged and off road capable and a lot less 4x4 like. But depends what you want really. The Jag F-Pace/RR Velar siblings for instance. And lots of offerings from BMW, Merc etc. in this sector too.
     
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  2. gstuart

    gstuart D3 Grandad

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    talking about land rover engines hate that the newer ones have now done away with physical engine dipsticks

    must confess seen quite a few previous D3/4 owners go over to the Volvo XC90 , think some of them came with either coils or air suspension

    Also see the Toyota land cruisers hold there money well, quite like the Jag F and I Pace ,

    indeed as u say there’s other manufacturer options , have heard that ref the 4.4 TDV8 is supposed to be very to drive with plenty of power and reasonable Mpg for such a heavy motor
     
  3. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on how safe a vehicle you want in a crash? A Wrangler is about the worst scoring car of it's type ever crash tested, it's truly shocking to see it completely crumple up in a crash test, when a modern vehicle of the same dimensions are structurally stable, in the same test.
    They look good though.
     
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  4. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I think if I had £35 K for a car for work, I'd be going electric, simply because it's so cheap to run, which means more money to keep from each job. ;)
     
  5. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    Thats the d3, the 4 likes to snap its crank for no apparent reason, if you look at some pics of the crank it appears to be weak at the normal fail point.
    The d3 journal spinning is not as simple as it sounds, shell bearings do not just spin, they have to pick up first get a grip then they spin and its game over, so something else has to fail first to start the chain of events.

    Tbh any car make is a gamble, I honestly do not know what I would buy if I had to choose right now.
     
  6. lightning

    lightning Well-Known Member Full Member

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    l've looked at electric vehicles but prices are currently too high, and the govt grant has ended

    Also l need the vehicle to tow a caravan. Is the newer Wrangler any better in terms of safety? As in , the post 2011 updated one.

    EDIT

    Just looked at the crash test on a 2018 Wrangler LWB and it's truly crap.
    However probably still better than a Defender TD5?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  7. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    I'd personally only take this with a pinch of salt.

    Euro NCAP downgrades cars very heavily for not having passive safety systems and for pedestrian safety, rather than the vehicle. Also bear in mind they also only crash them into something the same weight too.

    I'm by no means ignoring what happens when they are crashed, but you'd get a completely different result if you crashed a LWB Wrangler into something like Kia Picanto. Euro NCAP ratings are almost pointless unless you crash into something the same weight as the car you driving. Ultimately meaning in an accident a large 3 star vehicle may well be the safer place than the 5 star city hatch.

    I'd also suggest that a JK or JL Wrangler are massively more safe than your old Defender. And are probably on par with your Jimny or maybe better.

    And while this is quite old, it is interesting that just because the design of the vehicle might not be the most safe, it doesn't statistically mean you are less safe on the road.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    A 5 star rated LR is many times safer than a 1 star wrangler.
    The idea of the tests is to demonstrate how safe a vehicle is, not how large it is. A better design of vehicle structure will hold up better than a bad design.
    Most LRs after 2005 had a 4 or 5 star rating, the L322 and Freelander 2 are both 5 star rated vehicles.
    I know where I'd want my kids to travel, and it wouldn't be in a Wrangler, as the chances are, you'll be hit by something much more substantial these days, so the vehicle my kids travel in needs to protect them as best as possible.
     
  9. kermit_rr

    kermit_rr Green Member Full Member

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    Uhm ..

    How can they put the price up after you've placed an order? Have they cancelled and made you re-order?
     
  10. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    As said. A lot of the star rating is not about occupant safety. But about how pedestrian friendly the front is and if it has things like lane guidance and automatic braking.

    I do hear what you are saying. But it sounds most bizarre that you wouldn’t let your kids ride in say a Ford Escort or even a Series Land Rover.
     
  11. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    The test is split up into categories, where pedestrian and active safety systems make a small proportion of the overall ☆ rating.
    If the vehicle was soft and squashy for a pedestrian, and had amazing active safety systems, but folded up when it hit something, it's ☆ rating would be low, just as it is with the Wrangler, which is equipped with a reasonable amount of occupant protection equipment.

    Regardless of how the ratings are configured, the higher the ☆ rating, the safer the vehicle, and the more 5 ☆ vehicles on the road, the less safe the roads become for lower ☆ rated vehicles.

    I've seen too many vehicles involved in incidents where the occupants were seriously injured or worse, to take any chances with my children.
     
  12. ronsealdeath

    ronsealdeath Sagging Member

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    Sadly i would recommend a Shogun (2011 on cheaper tax). Yes they are rated to 3.5t. Our 2015 commercial shogun in work tows 3t like a dream and is ultra reliable. 25mpg when not towing and more on a run. Automatic, cruise control etc…
    But to be honest, your 110 makes a fair bit of sense still. Spend some money sound deadening it and get some posh seats.
     
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  13. kermit_rr

    kermit_rr Green Member Full Member

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    The drivers have a big impact on the roads becoming less safe. Plus the insane road designs the the spotty faced yoofs design on computers, having never even passed a driving test :rolleyes:
     
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  14. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    Just looked on ebay, bloody hell thats a lot of car for 10/20k less than the same age/mileage D4.
    Do the 3.2 lumps have any major known issues?
     
  15. ronsealdeath

    ronsealdeath Sagging Member

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    Not that i know. Older gen had injection pump issues but these seem good. Police regularly clock up 180k on them no worries. They genuinely tow extremely well and are not far behind a D4. The interior is plasticky and the engine is noisier than a D4, but they are solid and nice to drive.
     
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  16. Intestinalworm

    Intestinalworm Well-Known Member

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    Surprised there is no third-party fix out there for this yet?
     
  17. lightning

    lightning Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Maybe there is on rebuilt engines?
     
  18. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    They can fail as well.
     
  19. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    Nice car ruined by chav add ons.
     
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  20. gstuart

    gstuart D3 Grandad

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    Indeed , as in adding low profile tyres along with the HST body kit , looks terrible

    Similar to the RRS where they do horrible mods , plus will keep mine for abit longer seeing I’ve put so much time and effort into it, seeing there’s no rush in changing it , also see the second hand market has seriously gone up on many vehicles
     
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