Disco II V8 stranded in Czech Republic - help!

Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to the
Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well until I
arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off engine. On
restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would the
heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to climb
towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was for the air
suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or overheating.
Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped to local Land Rover
dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not speak English). Dealer
identified and remedied a leak on cooling system (not sure where because of
language barrier, but it involved them replacing a seal somewhere and could
not have been too major as as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault codes
from ECU. Ran ok for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for
leaks, all seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to
dealer, who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head, cracked
block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but dealer cannot
identify problem more accurately without removing heads. Any thoughts on
wisdom of driving back to the UK with a possibly faulty head gasket or other
head/block fault? I'm nervous about letting local dealer here loose on major
work as there are not many V8 Landies here for them to have gained
experience on, and I can also see myself losing control over what they are
doing given the language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing
more damage driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!

Simon Oates <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to
> the Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well
> until I arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off
> engine. On restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would
> the heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to
> climb towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was
> for the air suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or
> overheating. Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped
> to local Land Rover dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not
> speak English). Dealer identified and remedied a leak on cooling
> system (not sure where because of language barrier, but it involved
> them replacing a seal somewhere and could not have been too major as
> as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault codes from ECU. Ran ok
> for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for leaks, all
> seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to dealer,
> who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
> indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head,
> cracked block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but
> dealer cannot identify problem more accurately without removing
> heads. Any thoughts on wisdom of driving back to the UK with a
> possibly faulty head gasket or other head/block fault? I'm nervous
> about letting local dealer here loose on major work as there are not
> many V8 Landies here for them to have gained experience on, and I can
> also see myself losing control over what they are doing given the
> language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing more damage
> driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!

Do you have breakdown cover?

We use Red pennant through the Caravan club, worth every penny. The will
recover the car home if you break down.

Now then http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/ not suggesting you should join now
or owt..... they also translate between you and the garage.

As for the likelyhood of them having done a v8 before... don't worry.. look
at it as a positive, It's the cowboys who think they know what they are
doing you need to worry about.

Lee

In message <[email protected]>
"Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to the
> Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well until I
> arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off engine. On
> restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would the
> heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to climb
> towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was for the air
> suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or overheating.
> Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped to local Land Rover
> dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not speak English). Dealer
> identified and remedied a leak on cooling system (not sure where because of
> language barrier, but it involved them replacing a seal somewhere and could
> not have been too major as as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault codes
> from ECU. Ran ok for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for
> leaks, all seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to
> dealer, who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
> indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head, cracked
> block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but dealer cannot
> identify problem more accurately without removing heads. Any thoughts on
> wisdom of driving back to the UK with a possibly faulty head gasket or other
> head/block fault? I'm nervous about letting local dealer here loose on major
> work as there are not many V8 Landies here for them to have gained
> experience on, and I can also see myself losing control over what they are
> doing given the language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing
> more damage driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!
>
>

This might sound a bit daft, but can the British Embassy/Consulate
find you a translator - the risk of driving back is quite large I'd
say. I don't know what parts prices are like out there (probably
quite high judging by the amount we send out), but I'll bet the
labour is cheap(er). I believe I'm correct in saying that any work
carried out by an LR dealer in any country is covered by warranty
world-wide, so there shouldn't be any problems in that regard.

Possiby not a whole lot of help, but I tried ;-)

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>, Simon Oates
<[email protected]> writes
>Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to the
>Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well until I
>arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off engine. On
>restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would the
>heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to climb
>towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was for the air
>suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or overheating.
>Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped to local Land Rover
>dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not speak English). Dealer
>identified and remedied a leak on cooling system (not sure where because of
>language barrier, but it involved them replacing a seal somewhere and could
>not have been too major as as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault codes
>from ECU. Ran ok for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for
>leaks, all seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to
>dealer, who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
>indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head, cracked
>block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but dealer cannot
>identify problem more accurately without removing heads. Any thoughts on
>wisdom of driving back to the UK with a possibly faulty head gasket or other
>head/block fault? I'm nervous about letting local dealer here loose on major
>work as there are not many V8 Landies here for them to have gained
>experience on, and I can also see myself losing control over what they are
>doing given the language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing
>more damage driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!
>
>


Did you have correct Anti-freeze mix?
--
Marc Draper

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e2929374e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to the
>> Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well until I
>> arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off engine. On
>> restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would the
>> heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to climb
>> towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was for the air
>> suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or overheating.
>> Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped to local Land
>> Rover
>> dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not speak English). Dealer
>> identified and remedied a leak on cooling system (not sure where because
>> of
>> language barrier, but it involved them replacing a seal somewhere and
>> could
>> not have been too major as as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault
>> codes
>> from ECU. Ran ok for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for
>> leaks, all seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to
>> dealer, who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
>> indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head, cracked
>> block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but dealer
>> cannot
>> identify problem more accurately without removing heads. Any thoughts on
>> wisdom of driving back to the UK with a possibly faulty head gasket or
>> other
>> head/block fault? I'm nervous about letting local dealer here loose on
>> major
>> work as there are not many V8 Landies here for them to have gained
>> experience on, and I can also see myself losing control over what they
>> are
>> doing given the language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing
>> more damage driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!
>>
>>
>
> This might sound a bit daft, but can the British Embassy/Consulate
> find you a translator - the risk of driving back is quite large I'd
> say.

Risk of much disaster must be high, yes.



I don't know what parts prices are like out there (probably
> quite high judging by the amount we send out), but I'll bet the
> labour is cheap(er). I believe I'm correct in saying that any work
> carried out by an LR dealer in any country is covered by warranty
> world-wide, so there shouldn't be any problems in that regard.
>

I wouldn't bet on it. Would you remedy another garages work for free?
Anyhow, the Czech lads have probably as much chance of doing it right first
time as anyone. Frankly if he expects a warranty on a major repair then
expect to have a new or genuine factory re-con fitted at vast expense rather
than a strip and replace-only-obviously-defective-components job.

Huw

Thanks for all the input, makes me feel much less alone here! Seems a pretty
clear consensus that I should not try to drive it back to the UK, so that's
one decision made. Most likely case is, I guess, that it is a head gasket
that's gone, assuming the initial external leakage of coolant led to
overheating and consequent head gasket failure. If I could be certain of
that, I would let the local dealer in CZ loose on it as renewing gaskets and
pressure testing and machining heads if necessary should be well within
their competence, and the labour rates here are better than in the UK.
My fear, however, is that it might be more complicated, e.g. a porous
cylinder liner, and the local dealer here won't be able to diagnose that
until they've got the heads off. It's a 1999 build year, 49k miles, full
LRSH with intermediate 6 monthly oil changes, so does anyone have any views
on the likelihood of a liner problem? And any ideas on how to identify if it
is a liner problem without removing the heads? If it is a liner problem,
then I suspect I would be better off using a specialist rebuilder in the UK
or sourcing a replacement short engine there rather than trying to do that
here. There must be much more choice in the UK (I've not seen many, if any,
Rover V8 engined vehicles here).
If I do get it recovered to the UK does anyone have any recommendations as
to a good specialist V8 engine repairer/ rebuilder in the north-west (or
further afield, I don't mind travelling to someone who comes well
recommended)? I live near Chester.
As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at the last
service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok but there's obviously no way
I can know or check now. But I agree that the fact that the problem
manifested itself here the day after an overnight stop in Metz where the
temperature had been -15 to -20 degrees is grounds for some suspicion. And
if it is a cracked block thanks to the wrong anti-freeze mixture, then I
guess that also militates in favour of recovery to the UK.
Thanks again to everyone!!!



"Marc Draper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Simon Oates <[email protected]>
> writes
>>Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to the
>>Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well until I
>>arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off engine. On
>>restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would the
>>heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to climb
>>towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was for the air
>>suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or overheating.
>>Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped to local Land Rover
>>dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not speak English). Dealer
>>identified and remedied a leak on cooling system (not sure where because
>>of
>>language barrier, but it involved them replacing a seal somewhere and
>>could
>>not have been too major as as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault
>>codes
>>from ECU. Ran ok for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for
>>leaks, all seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to
>>dealer, who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
>>indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head, cracked
>>block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but dealer
>>cannot
>>identify problem more accurately without removing heads. Any thoughts on
>>wisdom of driving back to the UK with a possibly faulty head gasket or
>>other
>>head/block fault? I'm nervous about letting local dealer here loose on
>>major
>>work as there are not many V8 Landies here for them to have gained
>>experience on, and I can also see myself losing control over what they are
>>doing given the language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing
>>more damage driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!
>>
>>
>
>
> Did you have correct Anti-freeze mix?
> --
> Marc Draper

Simon Oates <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Thanks for all the input, makes me feel much less alone here! Seems a
> pretty clear consensus that I should not try to drive it back to the
> UK, so that's one decision made. Most likely case is, I guess, that
> it is a head gasket that's gone, assuming the initial external
> leakage of coolant led to overheating and consequent head gasket
> failure. If I could be certain of that, I would let the local dealer
> in CZ loose on it as renewing gaskets and pressure testing and
> machining heads if necessary should be well within their competence,
> and the labour rates here are better than in the UK. My fear, however, is
> that it might be more complicated, e.g. a porous
> cylinder liner, and the local dealer here won't be able to diagnose
> that until they've got the heads off. It's a 1999 build year, 49k
> miles, full LRSH with intermediate 6 monthly oil changes, so does
> anyone have any views on the likelihood of a liner problem? And any
> ideas on how to identify if it is a liner problem without removing
> the heads? If it is a liner problem, then I suspect I would be better
> off using a specialist rebuilder in the UK or sourcing a replacement
> short engine there rather than trying to do that here. There must be
> much more choice in the UK (I've not seen many, if any, Rover V8
> engined vehicles here). If I do get it recovered to the UK does anyone
> have any
> recommendations as to a good specialist V8 engine repairer/ rebuilder
> in the north-west (or further afield, I don't mind travelling to
> someone who comes well recommended)? I live near Chester.
> As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at
> the last service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok but there's
> obviously no way I can know or check now. But I agree that the fact
> that the problem manifested itself here the day after an overnight
> stop in Metz where the temperature had been -15 to -20 degrees is
> grounds for some suspicion. And if it is a cracked block thanks to
> the wrong anti-freeze mixture, then I guess that also militates in
> favour of recovery to the UK. Thanks again to everyone!!!

You would be really unluck to get a cracked block or slipped liner and if I
understand it correctly the Discos didn't get the issues the same as the
Rangies did due to the fuel mixture creating issues with running temp and
hot spots in the engine.

My money is on head gasket. Does it blow steam out the exhaust... like way
more than normal, as it looks like a kettle driving down the road?

I'd expect any frost damage to manifest it's self in a blown core plug
before the heads dot damaged. It still could be a dislodged core plug but
only time will tell... a few are hidden such that they can't be seen with
the engine in situ but when they have gone on my cars they have blown clear
out of the hole on engines in vehicles parked in a garage in the UK.

As to the coolant... the mix for the UK may not be up to the extremes of
temperature your getting out there at the mo.

I found when our Disco Conken outen in the South of France I too had the
language barrier and half my frustration was things not being translated
literally. I found regular physical contact at the garage where I could
stamp and bang things help euro relations along a treat ;-)

At least you can "chill out" while it's being fixed, in the mean time make
the most of those labour rates and if all else fails book in to a hotel and
check out Scrap heap challenge on Sky..... you should pick up a few tips ;-)

Take some peace of mind in the fact it's a sudden failure rather than an
agonising issue dragging on over the last few weeks.

I note the D1 doesn't have a coolant loss sensor unlike the RRC, don't know
if the DII is any different.

Lee

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:10:08 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>As to the coolant... the mix for the UK may not be up to the extremes of
>temperature your getting out there at the mo.

Agreed. Being in the UK, i tend to go for the weakest possible mix of
antifreeze since that generally covers the coldest temperatures we
will get!
I think that mix is only rated for -15 (if not less), so any colder
than this could have overwhelmed your coolant.

In message <[email protected]>
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:e2929374e%[email protected]...
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > "Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Technical advice and also some common sense needed please! I drove to the
> >> Czech Republic in a V8 (petrol/lpg dual-fuel) Disco II. All well until I
> >> arrived (late at night and -15 degrees) and turned off engine. On
> >> restarting, would not switch from petrol to lpg, nor would the
> >> heater/climate control work. Temperature gauge quickly started to climb
> >> towards hot. But the only warning light that illuminated was for the air
> >> suspension, not a glimmer to indicate coolant loss or overheating.
> >> Subsequent investigation revealed coolant loss. Limped to local Land
> >> Rover
> >> dealer (yes, they do have them, but they do not speak English). Dealer
> >> identified and remedied a leak on cooling system (not sure where because
> >> of
> >> language barrier, but it involved them replacing a seal somewhere and
> >> could
> >> not have been too major as as bill not high) and cleared pile of fault
> >> codes
> >> from ECU. Ran ok for a few days, back to dealer to check their work for
> >> leaks, all seemed ok, but then started to lose coolant again. Back to
> >> dealer, who pressure tested system and now thinks pressure is too low,
> >> indicating possible leak in head gaskets (or cracked/warped head, cracked
> >> block etc depending on how pessimistic you are feeling!), but dealer
> >> cannot
> >> identify problem more accurately without removing heads. Any thoughts on
> >> wisdom of driving back to the UK with a possibly faulty head gasket or
> >> other
> >> head/block fault? I'm nervous about letting local dealer here loose on
> >> major
> >> work as there are not many V8 Landies here for them to have gained
> >> experience on, and I can also see myself losing control over what they
> >> are
> >> doing given the language barriers. But I'm equally nervous about causing
> >> more damage driving back to the UK. Hence the dilemma!
> >>
> >>
> >
> > This might sound a bit daft, but can the British Embassy/Consulate
> > find you a translator - the risk of driving back is quite large I'd
> > say.
>
> Risk of much disaster must be high, yes.
>
>
>
> I don't know what parts prices are like out there (probably
> > quite high judging by the amount we send out), but I'll bet the
> > labour is cheap(er). I believe I'm correct in saying that any work
> > carried out by an LR dealer in any country is covered by warranty
> > world-wide, so there shouldn't be any problems in that regard.
> >
>
> I wouldn't bet on it. Would you remedy another garages work for free?
> Anyhow, the Czech lads have probably as much chance of doing it right first
> time as anyone. Frankly if he expects a warranty on a major repair then
> expect to have a new or genuine factory re-con fitted at vast expense rather
> than a strip and replace-only-obviously-defective-components job.
>
> Huw
>
>

I say that as, for parts anyway, all LR parts carry a 12 month warranty
and should a part fail that, say, I have sold and the problem occurs
in Scotland then LR will honour the warranty and get it sorted in
Scotland. I would assume that repairs carried out by a franchise dealer
would be the same, as no-one is ever going to admit they ballsed the
job up and will blame the parts anyway.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

"Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip>

> My fear, however, is that it might be more complicated, e.g. a porous
> cylinder liner, and the local dealer here won't be able to diagnose that
> until they've got the heads off. It's a 1999 build year, 49k miles, full
> LRSH with intermediate 6 monthly oil changes, so does anyone have any
> views on the likelihood of a liner problem? And any ideas on how to
> identify if it is a liner problem without removing the heads?

Unfortunately, liner problems can appear at virtually anytime at all, quite
often without any overheating provocation or warning. Pull the plugs and
look for one that is considerably cleaner than the rest, that is a good
indication of "washing". A better method is to use some sort of scope thingy
and look down the plug holes at the piston crowns for the same "washed
clean" look. If you find one like that, then it's most probably a crack
behind that liner allowed the leak up past the thing!
Now, here's a trick that might just get you home..... refit the heads using
3.5 ltr composite gaskets, non-genuine parts (real steel). The gaskets are
oversize for the nominal bore, more like 3.65" instead of 3.5", so will
actually seal over the edge of the cylinder liners as opposed to the correct
3.7" bore gaskets (which are more like 3.8" when measured!) not actually
sealing off the liner but sealing against the block! I've done this before
and it's worked handsomely.

> If it is a liner problem, then I suspect I would be better off using a
> specialist rebuilder in the UK or sourcing a replacement short engine
> there rather than trying to do that here. There must be much more choice
> in the UK (I've not seen many, if any, Rover V8 engined vehicles here).
> If I do get it recovered to the UK does anyone have any recommendations as
> to a good specialist V8 engine repairer/ rebuilder in the north-west (or
> further afield, I don't mind travelling to someone who comes well
> recommended)? I live near Chester.

Methinks there's a bunch not too far from Chester called Automotive
Component Remanufacturing, or something similar. They can supply you with an
engine relinered using top-hat liners that completely cures the
cracking/sealing issues for once and for all.
There's also Lund Engines, down in Devon, he does the same blocks.

> As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at the
> last service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok but there's obviously
> no way I can know or check now. But I agree that the fact that the problem
> manifested itself here the day after an overnight stop in Metz where the
> temperature had been -15 to -20 degrees is grounds for some suspicion.
> And if it is a cracked block thanks to the wrong anti-freeze mixture, then
> I guess that also militates in favour of recovery to the UK.
> Thanks again to everyone!!!

I run 50% mix all year. Keeps the corrosion inhibiting up.

Badger.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:38:16 +0100, Simon Oates wrote:

> As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at the
> last service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok

Did you tell them about your planned trip to the Czech Republic and that
their winters as substantially colder than ours? Giving them figures of
colder than -20C at night.

If you didn't the chances are that they would only put in their UK
standard antifreeze mix which might go down to -15C on a good day.
Remember that in the UK, -10C is considered *very* cold and pretty rare.
Even exposed and at 1400' -10C is rare, last time we got close was early
March 2001, we do get below -5C several times a winter though.

Frost damage of some sort seems pretty likely. Have they tried a
compression test on each pot? Wouldn't a head gasket problem show up as
poor compression and inabilty to maintain the pressure? A blown/leak core
plug would fail the coolant pressure test but not affect cylinder
compression.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't bet on it. Would you remedy another garages work for free?
>> Anyhow, the Czech lads have probably as much chance of doing it right
>> first
>> time as anyone. Frankly if he expects a warranty on a major repair then
>> expect to have a new or genuine factory re-con fitted at vast expense
>> rather
>> than a strip and replace-only-obviously-defective-components job.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
>
> I say that as, for parts anyway, all LR parts carry a 12 month warranty
> and should a part fail that, say, I have sold and the problem occurs
> in Scotland then LR will honour the warranty and get it sorted in
> Scotland. I would assume that repairs carried out by a franchise dealer
> would be the same, as no-one is ever going to admit they ballsed the
> job up and will blame the parts anyway.
>
> Richard

If there was a second strip down taking 20 0r 30 hours [or even 3 or 4]
involved in replacing the part and with the possibility that other parts
were consequently damaged as well, no-one will pay the labour at the second
dealer so I suspect strongly that he would be on his own and phrases like
'take it back to the original repairer' would be heard.

Huw

In message <[email protected]>
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I wouldn't bet on it. Would you remedy another garages work for free?
> >> Anyhow, the Czech lads have probably as much chance of doing it right
> >> first
> >> time as anyone. Frankly if he expects a warranty on a major repair then
> >> expect to have a new or genuine factory re-con fitted at vast expense
> >> rather
> >> than a strip and replace-only-obviously-defective-components job.
> >>
> >> Huw
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I say that as, for parts anyway, all LR parts carry a 12 month warranty
> > and should a part fail that, say, I have sold and the problem occurs
> > in Scotland then LR will honour the warranty and get it sorted in
> > Scotland. I would assume that repairs carried out by a franchise dealer
> > would be the same, as no-one is ever going to admit they ballsed the
> > job up and will blame the parts anyway.
> >
> > Richard
>
> If there was a second strip down taking 20 0r 30 hours [or even 3 or 4]
> involved in replacing the part and with the possibility that other parts
> were consequently damaged as well, no-one will pay the labour at the second
> dealer so I suspect strongly that he would be on his own and phrases like
> 'take it back to the original repairer' would be heard.
>
> Huw
>
>

That's not what the LR warranty says.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
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....and Lee_D spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> I'd expect any frost damage to manifest it's self in a blown core plug
> before the heads dot damaged. It still could be a dislodged core plug
> but only time will tell... a few are hidden such that they can't be

Depends on how it got used. Cold temps on their own shouldn't damage the
head, but if the OP had run it, it might. I had a Triumph Dolomite back in
the early 80s which I took out for a play (rwd, brilliant) in the snow after
a night of -15 or so. It overheated within a couple of miles. Turns out
the coolant had turned to slush within the exposed radiator hoses and the
rad wasn't in circuit, even with the block fully warm. That gave me a
warped head, and constant coolant loss until I sold it a couple of years
later.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

On or around Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:54:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:38:16 +0100, Simon Oates wrote:
>
>> As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at the
>> last service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok
>
>Did you tell them about your planned trip to the Czech Republic and that
>their winters as substantially colder than ours? Giving them figures of
>colder than -20C at night.
>
>If you didn't the chances are that they would only put in their UK
>standard antifreeze mix which might go down to -15C on a good day.
>Remember that in the UK, -10C is considered *very* cold and pretty rare.
>Even exposed and at 1400' -10C is rare, last time we got close was early
>March 2001, we do get below -5C several times a winter though.
>
>Frost damage of some sort seems pretty likely. Have they tried a
>compression test on each pot? Wouldn't a head gasket problem show up as
>poor compression and inabilty to maintain the pressure? A blown/leak core
>plug would fail the coolant pressure test but not affect cylinder
>compression.

have seen -17 once here. but more commonly, -5 is unusual - we did get a
couple of -10s this year.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:73dff274e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I wouldn't bet on it. Would you remedy another garages work for free?
>> >> Anyhow, the Czech lads have probably as much chance of doing it right
>> >> first
>> >> time as anyone. Frankly if he expects a warranty on a major repair
>> >> then
>> >> expect to have a new or genuine factory re-con fitted at vast expense
>> >> rather
>> >> than a strip and replace-only-obviously-defective-components job.
>> >>
>> >> Huw
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I say that as, for parts anyway, all LR parts carry a 12 month warranty
>> > and should a part fail that, say, I have sold and the problem occurs
>> > in Scotland then LR will honour the warranty and get it sorted in
>> > Scotland. I would assume that repairs carried out by a franchise dealer
>> > would be the same, as no-one is ever going to admit they ballsed the
>> > job up and will blame the parts anyway.
>> >
>> > Richard
>>
>> If there was a second strip down taking 20 0r 30 hours [or even 3 or 4]
>> involved in replacing the part and with the possibility that other parts
>> were consequently damaged as well, no-one will pay the labour at the
>> second
>> dealer so I suspect strongly that he would be on his own and phrases like
>> 'take it back to the original repairer' would be heard.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
>
> That's not what the LR warranty says.
>

I am willing to bet that is what a dealer would say, along with ''who is
going to pay all that labour?"

Huw

Update. After various conversations with the dealer through friends with
varying degrees of linguistic skills, and getting even more confused, I
spent an hour or so with the dealer today, me armed with various
dictionaries and the dealer with the Land Rover workshop manual. Amazing how
picture books can help communication The dealer's view is that the
cooling system is over-pressurising (top hose does get hard) and is forcing
coolant to leak through weakest available seal or gasket (having fixed a
leaking connector, it's now showing signs of leaking around a manifold
gasket) and that the likely cause is head gasket, although, as they have had
experience of porous blocks on some 4.6 litre Range Rovers, they say that
they cannot rule out a block problem until they have the heads off.
The dealer also tells me that, contrary to what I had thought, my block is a
solid block without cylinder liners.
Can anyone confirm that I do not have liners (it's a 1999 4.0 litre engine,
56D engine number, with an "A" suffix)?
The dealer will double check the state of the plugs for bleaching first
thing tomorrow (mechanic had gone home by the time I could get there, so
service manager could not tell me), then the plan is to let them take the
heads off and see what they find.
As for the coolant mix, I would like to think that it was ok. The UK
servicing dealer knows that the car spends winters here (it's not the first
winter it's been here and stood outside overnight in temperatures down
to -30 or so) and should have the appropriate coolant mix, so it should have
been ok unless they made a mistake (and no chance of getting them to admit
to that, even if they did put the wrong mix in!!!).
There was no sign of overheating on the entire journey (temp gauge rock
steady on normal) until after I had arrived, unloaded the car (20 mins or so
parked outside in -15) and restarted the engine, so I am guessing that it
was the cooling down of the engine while unloading that sucked coolant out
of the system at that time, through wherever the leak is??
Needless to say, I'm crossing my fingers that it is only a head gasket and
not a block problem (engines here seem to be significantly more expensive
than in the UK, and I'm not sure how the dealer would react to fitting an
engine shipped out by an independent from the UK rather than supplied
through Land Rover here). But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
It will be early next week before we know what removing the heads reveals.
I'll let you know what they find, and whether we are going to be looking at
sourcing a new engine, so watch this space!
In the meantime, thanks again to all.


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:54:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:38:16 +0100, Simon Oates wrote:
>>
>>> As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at the
>>> last service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok
>>
>>Did you tell them about your planned trip to the Czech Republic and that
>>their winters as substantially colder than ours? Giving them figures of
>>colder than -20C at night.
>>
>>If you didn't the chances are that they would only put in their UK
>>standard antifreeze mix which might go down to -15C on a good day.
>>Remember that in the UK, -10C is considered *very* cold and pretty rare.
>>Even exposed and at 1400' -10C is rare, last time we got close was early
>>March 2001, we do get below -5C several times a winter though.
>>
>>Frost damage of some sort seems pretty likely. Have they tried a
>>compression test on each pot? Wouldn't a head gasket problem show up as
>>poor compression and inabilty to maintain the pressure? A blown/leak core
>>plug would fail the coolant pressure test but not affect cylinder
>>compression.
>
> have seen -17 once here. but more commonly, -5 is unusual - we did get a
> couple of -10s this year.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
> Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

"Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip>

> The dealer also tells me that, contrary to what I had thought, my block is
> a solid block without cylinder liners.
> Can anyone confirm that I do not have liners (it's a 1999 4.0 litre
> engine, 56D engine number, with an "A" suffix)?

ALL rover v8 engines have ally blocks with steel liners fitted to them. It's
solid in the sense that it isn't removeable wet liners.

<snip>

Badger.

Thanks for that. I guess that's probably what the dealer was trying to say
when I was asking about porous liners, but it got "lost in translation"

Simon


"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> <snip>
>
>> The dealer also tells me that, contrary to what I had thought, my block
>> is a solid block without cylinder liners.
>> Can anyone confirm that I do not have liners (it's a 1999 4.0 litre
>> engine, 56D engine number, with an "A" suffix)?
>
> ALL rover v8 engines have ally blocks with steel liners fitted to them.
> It's solid in the sense that it isn't removeable wet liners.
>
> <snip>
>
> Badger.
>

"Simon Oates" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for that. I guess that's probably what the dealer was trying to say
> when I was asking about porous liners, but it got "lost in translation"
>
>
> Simon

Just in case you don't know, what actually happens is that the ally of the
block cracks behind a liner (normally near the top and close to a head bolt
hole), allowing the block to loosen its grip on the liner when hot. This can
result in coolant being forced up the side of the liner, or combustion
gasses being forced into the waterways.
During the manufacturing process the liners are force-fitted into the block
with the block heated to expand the ally. The liners would sometimes lift a
few thou as the blocks cooled during manufacture, believed to be caused by
non-uniform cooling of the block. The top faces were then machined flush as
the top of the blocks were final-machined. The cracks form (normally
accelerated by overheating) in the first place because of unequal wall
thickness of ally around the liners, caused by shift in the sand cores as
the molten ally is poured to cast the blocks.
In service, if a block cracks and loosens its grip on a liner, the liner can
then slip downwards a few thou, compromising the already poor seal across
the head gasket. It's the combination of a crack, a slipped liner and an
inadequate seal that causes the loss of coolant/overpressure.
Badger.