Defender replacement. Got this from wikipedia. Any further developments??

Replacement
Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages for
many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current form and,
in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s. As
modern private and commercial vehicles offer increasing levels of
performance, comfort and refinement, the Defender is again in competition
with Japanese products. These offer less off-road ability but are much more
comfortable. The Defender's excellent off-road performance is rarely used to
its limits by commercial users, and build-quality issues have led to many
switching to foreign competition.

Replacement was due for 2007, but recently new methods of building the
Defender have made the model profitable again (since the 1990s, the
hand-built vehicle had been made at a loss), and so its replacement has been
less of a priority. For the 2007 model year (2006 in calender years), the
Defender will receive a new 4-cylinder diesel engine- probably a 2.7-litre
version of the DuraTorq units used in the Ford Transit. Total replacement
will be needed by 2012, when new regulations regarding crash safety for
pedestrians will render the current design obsolete. Land Rover is keen to
sell the Defender in the huge USA 4x4 market. The Defender does not reach
the safety requirement for the USA, and only small batches of specially
modified (and very expensive) vehicles have been sold there in the past. A
replacement vehicle will almost certainly be designed to be legal in
America.

The replacement of the Defender is a controversial issue, especially amongst
the many enthusiasts for the vehicles. Some are worried that the replacement
will be a Defender only in name, sacrificing the off-road ability required
by a few for the on-road comfort and refinement liked by many. Others worry
that, given Land Rover's recent 'high tech' models such as the Range Rover
and Discovery 3, the next Defender will use electronic rather than
mechanical off-road systems, which will remove its characteristic simplicity
and toughness.

Land Rover have not released any information about the new Defender project,
so these concerns are pure speculation. Numerous 'artists impressions' in
the motoring press have been discredited as non-official.

Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Defender

--
1982 Series III 109

"Doorbell" <[email protected]> wrote

> Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages
for
> many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current form
and,
> in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s. As
> modern private and commercial vehicles offer increasing levels of
> performance, comfort and refinement, the Defender is again in competition
> with Japanese products. These offer less off-road ability but are much
more
> comfortable.

I took my 130 Td5 to Germany, having removed the pick-up tray and second row
of seats, to have Tischer build a camper body on the back.

They loaned me a Jap 4x4 pickup. MPG same. Style looked rubbish. A bit
more luxury in extras, but was glad to get my Landy back.

Alan

"Doorbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Replacement
> Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages
> for many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current
> form and, in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the
> 1950s. As modern private and commercial vehicles offer increasing levels
> of performance, comfort and refinement, the Defender is again in
> competition with Japanese products. These offer less off-road ability but
> are much more comfortable. The Defender's excellent off-road performance
> is rarely used to its limits by commercial users, and build-quality issues
> have led to many switching to foreign competition.
>
> Replacement was due for 2007, but recently new methods of building the
> Defender have made the model profitable again (since the 1990s, the
> hand-built vehicle had been made at a loss), and so its replacement has
> been less of a priority. For the 2007 model year (2006 in calender years),
> the Defender will receive a new 4-cylinder diesel engine- probably a
> 2.7-litre version of the DuraTorq units used in the Ford Transit. Total
> replacement will be needed by 2012, when new regulations regarding crash
> safety for pedestrians will render the current design obsolete. Land Rover
> is keen to sell the Defender in the huge USA 4x4 market. The Defender does
> not reach the safety requirement for the USA, and only small batches of
> specially modified (and very expensive) vehicles have been sold there in
> the past. A replacement vehicle will almost certainly be designed to be
> legal in America.
>
> The replacement of the Defender is a controversial issue, especially
> amongst the many enthusiasts for the vehicles. Some are worried that the
> replacement will be a Defender only in name, sacrificing the off-road
> ability required by a few for the on-road comfort and refinement liked by
> many. Others worry that, given Land Rover's recent 'high tech' models such
> as the Range Rover and Discovery 3, the next Defender will use electronic
> rather than mechanical off-road systems, which will remove its
> characteristic simplicity and toughness.
>
> Land Rover have not released any information about the new Defender
> project, so these concerns are pure speculation. Numerous 'artists
> impressions' in the motoring press have been discredited as non-official.
>
> Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Defender
>
> --
> 1982 Series III 109
You have to wonder what market sector Landrover would pitch the Defender at
?.They already have an established SUV for the North American Market in the
Range Rover and now the Disco branded as the LR3 is being heavily marketed
so why attempt to sell what is a basic utility vehicle in an aggresive
segment of the market already well covered by Ford products. Certainly there
is no cachet involved in the Defender name( it was sold in the uS for 4
years before being dropped from the range) and building a reputation as a
military derived vehicle is a non-starter not with competing Jeep and the GM
Humvee as home grown products . The descision will have to be weighted
against Ford's wishes and that may explain why the Freelander is no longer
in the 2006 lineup despite its massive sales.
More in question is will Landrover still drop the Defender entirely rather
than develop it further? Military users are not overly fond of complex
electronics which do interesting things on a whim an default to a low power
setting in a battle situation- lose that market and the first nail is in the
coffin.
Derek

On or around Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:36:05 GMT, "Doorbell"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages for
>many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current form and,
>in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s.

that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that really
lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good for a
vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...

I'm not convinced that most of the serious 4x4 opposition are any better.
Toys like the rav-4 and the Crappy Rotten Vehicle (Honda - what do you thing
CRV stands for?) might be more comfortable but are not in the same league.
I've not had a freeloader, so can't speak for the comfort, but the disco and
RR are plenty comfy for 300-mile runs.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:56:19 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:36:05 GMT, "Doorbell"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages for
>>many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current form and,
>>in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s.
>
>that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that really
>lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good for a
>vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...
>

Buy a Santana PS-10 then. It's just like a defender only with several
improvements, but still cheaper.

Alex

In message <[email protected]>
Alex <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:56:19 +0000, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On or around Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:36:05 GMT, "Doorbell"
> ><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages for
> >>many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current form and,
> >>in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s.
> >
> >that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that really
> >lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good for a
> >vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...
> >
>
> Buy a Santana PS-10 then. It's just like a defender only with several
> improvements, but still cheaper.
>

Apart from the leaf springs, LT85 gearbox - and that driving position
looks remarkably farmiliar...... ;-)

http://www.ticonsole.nl/santana/ps-10.htm

By the way, I may well be mad, but I *like* the Defender driving position!

> Alex

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7846dc54e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> Alex <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:56:19 +0000, Austin Shackles
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >On or around Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:36:05 GMT, "Doorbell"
> > ><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> > >
> > >>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning
stages for
> > >>many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current
form and,
> > >>in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s.
> > >
> > >that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that
really
> > >lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good
for a
> > >vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...
> > >
> >
> > Buy a Santana PS-10 then. It's just like a defender only with several
> > improvements, but still cheaper.
> >
>
> Apart from the leaf springs, LT85 gearbox - and that driving position
> looks remarkably farmiliar...... ;-)
>
> http://www.ticonsole.nl/santana/ps-10.htm
>

does look to be a rather formidable vehicle, boasting a 92kw turbo-diesel.
This beats the td5 by 2kw does it not? however, torque is down 25nm from the
td5's 300. Its set-up in a way i would love my series 3 to be. parabolic
springs, 5 speed g'box and tough turbo-diesel. However, i don't care much
for that "modern" interior.

Sam.

Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:36:05 GMT, "Doorbell"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages
>>for many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current
>>form and, in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the
>>1950s.
>
> that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that really
> lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good for
> a
> vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...
>
> I'm not convinced that most of the serious 4x4 opposition are any better.
> Toys like the rav-4 and the Crappy Rotten Vehicle (Honda - what do you
> thing CRV stands for?) might be more comfortable but are not in the same
> league. I've not had a freeloader, so can't speak for the comfort, but the
> disco and RR are plenty comfy for 300-mile runs.
>
The biggest shortcoming the Defender has compared to its competitors is that
the average size of people in the western world has increased since the
cabin dimensions were fixed (basically the S1 86 in about 1953). In fact,
the space is worse since doors have got a lot thicker. Unfortunately, this
(and the lack of space for airbags and decent airconditioning) is
impossible to change without a basic redesign of the body.
JD

On 2006-03-11, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> By the way, I may well be mad, but I *like* the Defender driving position!

I drove 650 miles from Basingstoke to Luing (on the west coast of
Scotland) in about 12 hours with breaks every 2 or so hours, all in my
110 Commercial, no soundproofing or creature comforts. Got there,
didn't die, didn't go mad, didn't go deaf, didn't start murdering
people, didn't break in half etc etc etc. A week later I did it all
again in reverse (I mean travelling the return journey) and am still
alive today. After both trips, no aches or pains. Seems fine to me!
My ears rang for about half an hour though...

I've driven a small number of "rival" machines, a shogun, a fourtrack,
a discovery and a few more I don't remember, and they all felt shabby
and fragile and felt much closer to the end of their useful life than
my much older defender. I drove the disco off-road too, and felt very
disconnected with the ground underneath.

Thankfully I reckon the Defender will be around for many moons yet,
even if landrover do kill it off, so only the temptation of Pinzgauer
remains a threat ;-)

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-03-11, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > By the way, I may well be mad, but I *like* the Defender driving position!
>
> I drove 650 miles from Basingstoke to Luing (on the west coast of
> Scotland) in about 12 hours with breaks every 2 or so hours, all in my
> 110 Commercial, no soundproofing or creature comforts. Got there,
> didn't die, didn't go mad, didn't go deaf, didn't start murdering
> people, didn't break in half etc etc etc. A week later I did it all
> again in reverse (I mean travelling the return journey) and am still
> alive today. After both trips, no aches or pains. Seems fine to me!
> My ears rang for about half an hour though...

Same here - Stoke-Leeds-Stoke regularly, Stoke-Portsmouth-Stoke,
Stoke-Weymouth-Stoke with no breaks and still perfectly healthy ;-)

>
> I've driven a small number of "rival" machines, a shogun, a fourtrack,
> a discovery and a few more I don't remember, and they all felt shabby
> and fragile and felt much closer to the end of their useful life than
> my much older defender. I drove the disco off-road too, and felt very
> disconnected with the ground underneath.

Dihastu Fortrack = 90 with knackerd bushes - a dreadful experience!

>
> Thankfully I reckon the Defender will be around for many moons yet,
> even if landrover do kill it off, so only the temptation of Pinzgauer
> remains a threat ;-)

I sincerly hope so - there's nothing else in the range I fancy having!
I did have a sit in Pinzgauer a few years back - not exacty designed
for someone with my dimensions (in any direction)...

>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> On or around Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:36:05 GMT, "Doorbell"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages
>>>for many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current
>>>form and, in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the
>>>1950s.
>>
>> that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that really
>> lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good for
>> a
>> vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...
>>
>> I'm not convinced that most of the serious 4x4 opposition are any better.
>> Toys like the rav-4 and the Crappy Rotten Vehicle (Honda - what do you
>> thing CRV stands for?) might be more comfortable but are not in the same
>> league. I've not had a freeloader, so can't speak for the comfort, but
>> the
>> disco and RR are plenty comfy for 300-mile runs.
>>
> The biggest shortcoming the Defender has compared to its competitors is
> that
> the average size of people in the western world has increased since the
> cabin dimensions were fixed (basically the S1 86 in about 1953). In fact,
> the space is worse since doors have got a lot thicker. Unfortunately, this
> (and the lack of space for airbags and decent airconditioning) is
> impossible to change without a basic redesign of the body.
> JD

And the positioning of the air con i fit in my 2a sat in a 90 ready to buy
it and i couldnt close the door i was shattered

....and Doorbell spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> The replacement of the Defender is a controversial issue, especially
> amongst the many enthusiasts for the vehicles. Some are worried that
> the replacement will be a Defender only in name, sacrificing the
> off-road ability required by a few for the on-road comfort and
> refinement liked by many.

They had better not. The new RR, D3 etc may be fine cars, but they are
competing in a crowded and aggreesive market. It pays LR to continue with
the Defender, even at a loss, because it gives the high-end products
much-needed credibility. If you like, as long as the Defender is around,
and being the best at what it does, and all that history and tradition, it
will support the sales of RRs and D3s. Take the Defender away from the LR
model range, and you've got - well - basically a range of pretty good 4x4s,
nothing more. The Defender is LR's USP in the way that the Willies* Jeep
isn't for Jeep, at least not in Europe.

* mis-spelling deliberate.


--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

In message <[email protected]>
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...and Doorbell spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
> > The replacement of the Defender is a controversial issue, especially
> > amongst the many enthusiasts for the vehicles. Some are worried that
> > the replacement will be a Defender only in name, sacrificing the
> > off-road ability required by a few for the on-road comfort and
> > refinement liked by many.
>
> They had better not. The new RR, D3 etc may be fine cars, but they are
> competing in a crowded and aggreesive market. It pays LR to continue with
> the Defender, even at a loss, because it gives the high-end products
> much-needed credibility. If you like, as long as the Defender is around,
> and being the best at what it does, and all that history and tradition, it
> will support the sales of RRs and D3s. Take the Defender away from the LR
> model range, and you've got - well - basically a range of pretty good 4x4s,
> nothing more. The Defender is LR's USP in the way that the Willies* Jeep
> isn't for Jeep, at least not in Europe.
>
> * mis-spelling deliberate.
>
>

Absolutely agree - 100% with a cherry on top. I don't know about
Ford's management, but their engineers are very aware the massing
with Defender, never mind dropping it, is a very sensitve area.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote

> Thankfully I reckon the Defender will be around for many moons yet,
> even if landrover do kill it off, so only the temptation of Pinzgauer
> remains a threat ;-)

I'm a real Landy owner and bought my 130 in 2002 as it had been reported as
it's last year. It's great, reliable, comfortable, has electric windows and
it's ac is OK by me.

But a Pinzgauer 6x6. Now that is a very capable vehicle off road. It's
ability puts every other Land Rover that I've driven (a large number) to
shame.

Now if my numbers win tonight I could then buy one as well, as a Range Rover
Sport. However I've only sat in one in a German showroom and not driven one
on an off-road training area like the Pinzgauer 6x6.

Alan

Ian Rawlings wrote:

> On 2006-03-11, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> By the way, I may well be mad, but I *like* the Defender driving
>> position!
>
> I drove 650 miles from Basingstoke to Luing (on the west coast of
> Scotland) in about 12 hours with breaks every 2 or so hours, all in my
> 110 Commercial, no soundproofing or creature comforts. Got there,
> didn't die, didn't go mad, didn't go deaf, didn't start murdering
> people, didn't break in half etc etc etc. A week later I did it all
> again in reverse (I mean travelling the return journey) and am still
> alive today. After both trips, no aches or pains. Seems fine to me!
> My ears rang for about half an hour though...
>
(snip)
I find my 1986 110 (with the older type doors) quite good to drive,
comfortable even on long trips - the 300,000+ km I have done in it includes
many trips of 1000km in a day. But being 1941 vintage I am probably smaller
than most drivers today, and it really does need decent airconditioning
(and a decent heater in Winter). Noise and vibration is another matter! The
3.9 diesel is noisier and much rougher than any of the other diesels ever
fitted to Landrovers - but it is still going strong after 410,000km.
JD

On 2006-03-11, Alan Morris <[email protected]> wrote:

> But a Pinzgauer 6x6. Now that is a very capable vehicle off road. It's
> ability puts every other Land Rover that I've driven (a large number) to
> shame.

Damned noisy though, and not exactly quick. I have a picture
somewhere of a 6x6 (my favourite) with fat wheels on, it looks like
some kind of moon buggy, excellent stuff.

They are a tad expensive though, you can pick up a 25-year-old for
about £10-16K... IIRC the new ones are in the £30K range but don't
quote me on that.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

>> >
>> >>Replacing the Defender with a new model has been in the planning stages for
>> >>many years. The current design is over 20 years old in its current form and,
>> >>in many ways, only slightly updated from the Land Rovers of the 1950s.
>> >
>> >that could use editing - it's rather unfair. The only thing that really
>> >lets the defender down is seats - fit decent seats and it's very good for a
>> >vehicle of its type. Compare for example with a typical minibus...
>> >
>>
>> Buy a Santana PS-10 then. It's just like a defender only with several
>> improvements, but still cheaper.
>>
>
>Apart from the leaf springs, LT85 gearbox - and that driving position
>looks remarkably farmiliar...... ;-)
>
>http://www.ticonsole.nl/santana/ps-10.htm
>

Nothing wrong with leaf springs. Or the LT85 for that matter.
(Although it's not the same as the LR version - it's uprated and it
has selectable 2x4/4x4 for a start, like the old series, no centre
diff to pack up) The driving positon is not the same, the centre seat
has been lost and the seat/wheel is further inboard - no more banging
elbows on the windows in winter. Also has a rigid body mounted
flexibly to the chassis, and a one-piece fibreglass roof (no leaks).
Lots of other differences, including 4-pinion diffs.

OTR price: £20,467

Which is £2500 cheaper than the entry-level Defender 110SW (£22,995)

Or you can have the hi-spec version which comes with Electric windows
and central locking for a mere £600 more, which brings you in line
with the 110SW County which costs £24,495 - saving you £3500.

If only Santana did a SWB version, i'd be buying one.

Alex

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:42:15 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2006-03-11, Alan Morris <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But a Pinzgauer 6x6. Now that is a very capable vehicle off road. It's
>> ability puts every other Land Rover that I've driven (a large number) to
>> shame.
>
>Damned noisy though, and not exactly quick. I have a picture
>somewhere of a 6x6 (my favourite) with fat wheels on, it looks like
>some kind of moon buggy, excellent stuff.
>
>They are a tad expensive though, you can pick up a 25-year-old for
>about £10-16K... IIRC the new ones are in the £30K range but don't
>quote me on that.

£30K for a Pinzgauer? Seems cheap, considering the top-spec Defender
comes in at £28K, you get a lot more off-road ability for your
money....

JD wrote:
> The
> 3.9 diesel is noisier and much rougher than any of the other diesels ever
> fitted to Landrovers - but it is still going strong after 410,000km.
> JD

Reckon you do have the Isuzu engine...everyone wants that one but only
available Down Under ;-(
Erik-Jan.

Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:

>
>
> JD wrote:
>> The
>> 3.9 diesel is noisier and much rougher than any of the other diesels ever
>> fitted to Landrovers - but it is still going strong after 410,000km.
>> JD
>
> Reckon you do have the Isuzu engine...everyone wants that one but only
> available Down Under ;-(
> Erik-Jan.

And hasn't been available for sixteen years, except to the army! (since the
200tdi)
JD