Defender L663 review !

RustyDefender said:

Grenadier over the "Defender" any day of the week.

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It depends on what you want to use it for. Primarily road use with the ability to go off road when needed......Defender

Primarily off road, Overlanding or farm use, but still good on road......Grenadier

The Defender Commercial version works out a lot cheaper than a Grenadier if you're in business. Hopefully Ineos will get the Grenadier certified with HMRC for Commercial use but l think the U.K. is a fairly small part of lneos's plan and not a priority for them.

johnlad said:

I’ve test driven them, do you always call people mental who don’t agree with your opinion?
You seem to enjoy following me around the forum trying to alter my perceptions, news for you it ain’t going to work

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Didn't know I'd ever replied to you before....

Mental, because no way is a Grenadier roughing it by any definition of the word.

1988smithy said:

People moaning 'its not a real defendurrrr'

Is the brand new range rover not a 'proper' range rover because it hasn't got coil springs and velour seats?? This is where defender would be anyway if they'd developed the bloody thing over all those years like they should have

Like saying a puma 110 isn't a real land rover compared to a series 1, barmy!

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It isn't barmy, it is about what the vehicle is and where it is placed in the market. The RR was always an up market vehicle. But look at what a Land Rover was from 1948-2016 and the new one does not fit that mould. This isn't to say the new Defender is a bad vehicle. But the original RR is far closer to "Land Rover" than the current model is.

If you need an example, imagine a fwd hatchback wearing the MX-5 badges. It could be the best fwd hatch ever built, fast, powerful, good handling etc etc. But to almost any car enthusiasts mind it would never really be an MX-5, because an MX-5 should be a lightweight 2 seat, rwd sports cars.

The new Defender isn't quite such a divide from the original. But the "traditional" Land Rover (later branded as Defender) has always been a ladder chassis, live axle heavily utilitarian modular based vehicle with different body configurations. The new one simply is not.

As an owner of a new Defender (and previously five old Defenders) l have to agree with the above.

The new Defender is a great vehicle but it's not a "Defender"
The Grenadier is a "Defender" or it would be if it had a Land Rover badge on the front.

The new Defender certainly has DNA from the old one, and it's surprisingly similar to drive. However it's forty years of progress in one go.

lightning said:

However it's forty years of progress in one go.

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Exactly my point

I had a drive in a Puma 90 XS earlier in the week.
Compared to my new Defender it was frankly awful.
Bouncy, not that fast, noisy, water leaking in (it was raining) stereo hopeless, gearbox slow, and various rattles.

Within five miles l was in love with it. We're going back on Saturday to see what my missus thinks as a potential swap for the Jimny.

You do know Puma models suffer the same issue as early LT77 gearbox models with failure of the gearbox output splines due to poor lubrication? [shame on Land rover] Ashcroft for explanation of issue.
Sorry if this rains on your parade.

Thanks for the heads up.
Yes l was aware of the issue with the output shaft, any Puma Defender l bought would get the Ashcroft modification as a priority.

NEW DEFENDER FUEL ECONOMY

Normally around 26mpg driving between customers
However if l drive in "ECO" mode and very carefully (but without holding up the traffic) l managed 37mpg, despite there being three sets of temporary traffic lights on my route, all on red when l got to them of course, and a fair bit of up/down hills

l post this stuff mainly because it may be useful in the future when/if the new Defender is more popular on here.

At the moment l can't see a lot of people being interested in what MPG the vehicle is managing for instance.

Most new Defenders are on PCP agreements and owned by people who don't wave when they see another one.

lightning said:

Most new Defenders are on PCP agreements and owned by people who don't wave when they see another onone.

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I imagine that a lot are bought/rented because its the latest fashion accessory, three years time they will move onto the next fashion accessory.
Anyway it interesting to see your insight compared to your previous Defender.

lightning said:

Bouncy, not that fast, noisy, water leaking in (it was raining) stereo hopeless, gearbox slow, and various rattles.

Within five miles l was in love with it.

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But it is exactly because of that far from exhaustive list of faults that you do love it. The new ones are too clinical and sterile, and everything just works this means there is no character to like or quirks to the vehicle, it is just another large modern suv no different to any other large modern suv. It could be the best car in the world at being a car but with no character there is little to get excited about or fall in love with.

Oh it does have some character, much more than other SUV's l have driven, plus the "Defender" legacy. And the interior certainly on my base specification model feels like a Defender. l definitely love the vehicle although it took some time.

But you're right, it's still nothing like the character of the old one. After this new Defender it's another original Defender for me, probably a late Puma 110 XS SW.

My missus liked the Puma by the way, but it has 90,000 miles so not viable to swap it for the Jimny which only has 18,000.

l think l will look for a cheaper Defender TD5 or 300tdi that needs some work and l'll have it as a project for now. l've got a garage and shed full of Defender parts, having owned five of them.

dag019 said:

But it is exactly because of that far from exhaustive list of faults that you do love it. The new ones are too clinical and sterile, and everything just works this means there is no character to like or quirks to the vehicle, it is just another large modern suv no different to any other large modern suv. It could be the best car in the world at being a car but with no character there is little to get excited about or fall in love with.

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I agree with all of the above, which is why after putting many thousands of pounds into renovating my 200tdi , I have also have a new defender. Sometimes you need something that gets you where you want to go without rattling , that can integrate with your phone so sat nav works and is relaxing to drive, then when you get there can smash the off road course and tow a mega caravan back while still delivering decent fuel economy for what is a big vehicle

lightning said:

My missus liked the Puma by the way, but it has 90,000 miles so not viable to swap it for the Jimny which only has 18,000.

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I will admit to not being too familiar with the puma models, and also know I do not need to tell you, but mileage is just a number does 90k really matter? I am 450miles away from 400k on my tdi but out of the whole vehicle there is possibly only the passenger wing, axle tubes, and rear tub that have actually done that. And over the summer I am planning to convert from hard top to station wagon so then the tub wont even be on that list anymore!

dag019 said:

I will admit to not being too familiar with the puma models, and also know I do not need to tell you, but mileage is just a number does 90k really matter? I am 450miles away from 400k on my tdi but out of the whole vehicle there is possibly only the passenger wing, axle tubes, and rear tub that have actually done that. And over the summer I am planning to convert from hard top to station wagon so then the tub wont even be on that list anymore!

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Just yesterday someone asked me how old my defender was. I said ‘she’s 30 in November’ ‘well some of her is’.
Front wings, tub and seat box are all that remains. Some bits are more than 30 too

johnlad said:

I agree with all of the above, which is why after putting many thousands of pounds into renovating my 200tdi , I have also have a new defender. Sometimes you need something that gets you where you want to go without rattling , that can integrate with your phone so sat nav works and is relaxing to drive, then when you get there can smash the off road course and tow a mega caravan back while still delivering decent fuel economy for what is a big vehicle

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l have the same issue, being in business and use the vehicle all day everyday l was torn between sticking with my 155,000 mile TD5 which required constant maintenance or going with the new one which l can just get in and drive.
Also it's got more security for my tools etc.

Of course the ideal is to have both, which l actually did for over six years when l bought a new Transit Connect van.

But since buying the caravan l've nowhere to keep a third vehicle, otherwise l would have kept my old 110 as well as the new one.

Blimey that suspension looks complicated on the upcoming defender OCTA i, see it’s going to be a BMW engine , wonder what gallons to a mile that will get, lol

Mine is the basic specification with the coil springs so is much simpler than that.

But apparently it still "embraces the impossible" according to Land Rover

I have the 3.0 six cylinder lngenium diesel with 250bhp.
l just drove back from Wales and over the 120 miles journey l achieved 42.7mpg

That was 70mph on the motorway and 60mph on the "A" roads (speed limit for my Defender Commercial is 60mph on "A" roads and l'm certainly not taking any chances in Wales)

lightning said:

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Hiya

Looks like I’ve been sleeping under a rock as didn’t know you’ve got the new defender , massive congrats and looks really nice in that colour , do u have front or rear lockers plse or just the CLD

Wonder how the terrian response 1 compares to ur TR2 , don’t know if it’s the same in the OCTA

All clever stuff that’s for sure