Defender advice for a Canadian

Hi folks,

I'm new to the site and board so hopefully I don't rehash anything. As a bit of background info, I am from Canada and already have a 98 NAS Disco with a 4.0L V8i engine so I am familiar with Land Rovers.

I love Rovers and wish to stay with them but the 4.0L is quite a thirsty beast. At present it isn't a problem because I live close to work but my company is moving to a new building in about a years time and it is much further away. I've been tossing the idea around of switching over to a Tdi D90 as our import rules here state that the vehicle has to be 15 years or older before they can be brought in so the 1990 200Tdi's are now eligable. I've been told that the 200Tdi's are very good/reliable engines, in some ways more so than the 300Tdi's and fuel mileage expected can be somewhere between 30-40 mpg on a stock D90. This compared to my current 12 - 13 mpg in my 4.0L is a huge difference. I was also informed that on a "Land Rover" level, the Defenders are much more reliable all around because of the fewer electronics in them and the simplicity of them compared to the Discos.

Can you folks with experience in these vehicles comment or point me to a resource with more info on the 200Tdi D90's?

Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated. I plan on meeting with an importer on the west coast of Canada in April to discuss more seriously of bringing in a 200Tdi so I would like to be as informed as possible so that I am aware of potential pitfalls.

Thanks again for any help you can offer!

Hi Al.

200Tdi's are pretty bomb proof, but a bit agricultural. the 300Tdi is a slightly more refined version but both put out the same power and torque.

I bet there is no shortage of decent places to go off roading in Canada.

Hi Al

First thing I would say is that you will notice a very significant decrease in performance changing from a V8 4.0L to a Tdi, although, I do understand why. Is LPG an option for you, popular over here and it should about halve your fuel costs but retain similar performance.

The figures you have quoted for Tdi fuel consumption do seem a little optimistic, I would have thought 23 - 27 mpg more the average.

Dave

Hi Fitz,

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by "a bit agricultural"?? Are you talking about the finish inside the truck? I will be potentially dealing with very low temps in the winter (easily -30*C or colder) so wondering if these vehicles will be relatively warm or will I be driving an icebox? My Disco's interior is finished off fairly well so it's able to keep heat in pretty well but was wondering if the D90 would be somewhat finished off where I wouldn't need to wear big furry boots and gloves during winter.

Would it be reasonable to assume that a 15 year old Tdi D90 would be reliable as a daily driver?

You're correct Fitz. I live near the Rocky Mountains so yes there are lots of places to go wheeling in. Your only worry in these areas is coming across bears. The other worry is not coming across someone for days but then again, I never wheel alone so usually isn't a problem.

Hi Dave,

LPG conversions here are rare...very rare. I did find a 97 XD Disco for sale here that had a dual LPG and petrol system running in it but never got a chance to look at it as it was 3 hours away from where I'm located. I assume in a system like that you lose some of your cargo space for the LPG tank but on the whole, very few people here do the petrol to LPG conversion.

As for difference in pep between the 4.0L and Tdi, I'm not too concerned about it. My Disco never set any land records to begin with unless where ever I was going was always downhill from me. On long distance trips it is great unless I get a headwind and then my fuel mileage is really bad. If I have a tailwind, I'm laughing as I potentially see about 20 mpg but my "tailwind dance" to the gods never seem to work out.

I'm not sure about the fuel mileage numbers for the Tdi. The importer I'm dealing with was quoting me numbers from the factory and said compared to my petrol, it will basically double what I'm getting. He said 30 mpg is doable and fairly realistic in these things though. I don't have any plans on modifying it either (at most guarding for diffs, steering and sills but no lifts or it won't fit in my garage) as most of my wheeling is mountain trails so a stock D90 would be more than sufficient. My Disco which is relatively stock has never left me stranded or stuck either on the trails I've been on so I can't see a stock D90 being worse off.

The big difference here is cost. Defenders are very sought after in North America so they tend to cost much more than what I'm seeing in the UK. So my decision to switch to a D90 is potentially a significant investment hence my cautiousness, especially with a Tdi engine that is extremely rare here in Canada.

Al
I would be very tempted to try and have a test drive in a Defender before you buy one, by agricultural - read TRACTOR.

Heating hasn't really improved much since the original models. My last one was a 1974 Series III, and whilst my my new one, 2003 TD5, is much improved in many ways it still has many similarities, the heater (or lack of), naff all demisters and windscreen wipers being the most obvious.

I have fitted mine with an eberspacher diesel heater which means that it is nice and warm on a morning, but we are dealing with around -2degC, not -30degC.

Don't get me wrong, I love my defender, but in your circumstances I feel you would be wise to test drive all the available choices so you can make an informed decision.

Dave

Hey Dave,

Good points. That's why I'm scheduling to fly out to the west coast in April where this importer is located. He has a shop there that has some vehicles in stock for me to test drive. Hopefully he'll have a Tdi there but at the very least I'll have a sense of how the Defender rides. My friend has a 94 NAS D90 but I've never ridden in it believe it or not. He only uses it for hunting so it sits in storage the rest of the time.

I indicated my concerns regarding cold temps and such and he assured me that this thing will start and provide sufficient heating after he's finished refurbishing it. I hope he's right but like you said, I really need to see one in person and touch and see it to be able to make an informed decision. If pricing was more like what's in the UK, then this would be an easier decision as I would most likely keep my Disco and pick up a Defender but with the way it looks, the cost of this Defender could very well be more than what I paid for my Disco unless I go to the UK and find a 15 year old Defender and ship it myself.

I'm not hell bent on buying a Defender but I do like them very much. If it comes down to being ridiculously priced then I would most likely buy a little commuter car and turn my Disco into a dedicated trail rig.

Thanks for the advice though. Much appreciated and exactly the kind of insight I was hoping to find on this board. Much easier to talk to folks who actually have and drive one everyday versus what folks in Canada speculate.

Glad you have found it helpful Al, best of luck with your future purchase.

No doubt you will pick up a lot of other useful information over the next few weeks

Cheers

Dave

Hey just curious but what kind of condition would/should I expect for a 1990 200Tdi D90? Would it have been driven pretty hard or is there a good chance that it was more of a pavement queen?

well thats like asking "how longs a piece of string"
Have you considered importing one yourself, not as hard as you`d think, and you can always keep an eye on ebay.uk to see what you get for your money.
Just remember most (most not all) 15 year old defenders will have rot in them, its the salt we put on our roads you see, winters a killer for anything metal on the UK`s roads.

Actually here in Canada, it's not uncommon for the majority of the Disco's to be pavement queens so you can find one in fairly decent shape. I was just wondering if that's the case for Defenders in the UK or if they are generally more beaten up because folks actually use them as intended. Even some of the Defenders we see here are never taken off-road and you can find them in immaculate condition.

Importing myself is a possibility but it can be a bit of a crap shoot at customs. Since I don't live near the ports where the vehicle arrives, it makes things much more difficult if there are snags at customs and I have to deal with things. Going through an importer eliminates these problems but I do end up paying a premium for them. My other choice would be to go to the UK, find one myself that Im' happy with and throw it on a ship and wait the month or however long it takes to get here. Could be less costly than an importer but then again, it might not if I run into a picky customs agent.

As for salt, it's nothing I'm not unfamiliar with. We sometimes get winter 8 months of the year so I understand the potential for rot.

Thanks for the comments.

Bloody hell, if Britain had snow 8 months of the year we`d grind to a halt!

Did you check this out?

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/impxus_e.htm

Maybe you could get a newer vehicle if it can meet Canadian Safety standards?

Greetings from another Canadian! I am assuming that the West coast importer that you're talking about is Rock Island Rovers. I'd be really curious to find out what you think when you get back from your visit. I was referred to them by a UK exporter.
I am trying to figure out the best way to get a Defender into my driveway as well, and am looking at all options. I'm leaning heavily towards doing it all myself, but we'll see......
Keep me posted,
Thanks,
Rob

Hi Rob,

Great to hear from a fellow Canadian.

No the company I'm talking about in Vancouver is called Pacific Custom Land Rovers. They're affiliated with Liveridge 4x4 (recently profiled in Land Rover World magazine) and the trucks they bring in are all refurbished ones. Very nice ones too. I've been speaking with the owner of PCLR for quite some time now so know what they have to offer in terms of service and product. However I haven't heard of the company you mentioned so I will look into them as well.

For your info, I'm looking for something more specific and PCLR is able to provide it hence my leaning towards them but I'm always open to options.

As a heads up to you, being out in Ontario you may have come across a D90 in Halifax for sale through autotrader.ca. It is a red one with winch, sliders and roof rack. If you have seen this unit and interested, I suggest you stay away from it. I've done extensive research on it and have come up with interesting info regarding it. If you want to know more, drop me an email and I'll explain.

Hi Rob,

I went and visited Rock Island Rovers' website last night. It's going to depend on what you want your Defender for and what kind of condition as from what I can tell, there seems to be a big difference in what they deliver for condition of vehicles in comparison to Pacific Customer Land Rovers.

I spent a good 30 minutes on the phone with Richard Creed from PCLR yesterday and essentially you're getting a brand new truck as they have specific criteria for Defenders they buy. They also strip the vehicle down to it's frame and go through everything and replace what is needed so delivery time of a vehicle from them is anywhere from 1 to 2 months. Right now if I were to buy one from them, I woudln't see this vehicle until August but like I said, you're getting essentially a near brand new Defender. Of course you also see this in the prices charged so something else to think about.

From my own experience so far of having my 98 Disco for almost 6 years, I'm getting a bit tired of the niggly things coming up but beyond that I'm starting to see more and more things need fixing on the V8 engine as it gets older. Throw paying $1/L for fuel right now and it compounds things. For myself I want something that gets good fuel mileage, minimal electronics, simple in design and simple to fix...and is a Land Rover. The Tdi Defenders seem to fall into that category quite well hence my desire to switch over.

Drop me a line if you want to talk more about what I've researched.

A few more suggestions from another CDN'n eh,

Search for a vehicle that will fit the requirements for import into Canada, in England. If your buying private, there is a chance, that you will get had, but one would hope the seller would be truthful and honest.

You can do searching, using Land Rover mags as your guide and search the main sellers. I would suggest checking Land Rover Center in Hudderfield , these guys are well know in the states for providing quality vehicles and they will do all the arrangements to get the vehicle to you.

I have done it and would suggest, to buy and import a vehicle yourself.
It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think. ( I would never pay a middle man in Canada for what I can do myself. Also, I would have to see it to believe it, that they strip the vehicle down to the frame...bla bla bla ) My opinion!

The few guidelines you must know and follow:

1. The vehicle has to thoroughly pressure cleaned before entering Canadian soil. Have a "port authorized cleaner" pressure wash the vehicle before export, they mail you the original papers of the of the cleaning instructions/what they actually did and the receipt. A copy of thoses papers follow with the vehicle paper work.

2. You need the V5 ( vehicle registration )

3. Bill of sale

4. You need a "certificate of permanent export", which are issued from the DVLA. The seller should apply for the certificate in good time, as the DVLA are not know for their speed. It usually takes anywhere's from 14 - 21 working days to get the certificate.

5. Make sure that all the numbers, engine,chassis,axle,trans and the licence plate are accurate, clearly visible on the related parts and are written on the bill of sale.

6. Have a good knowledge of what you bought, being able to answer any questions from customs.

As long as the vehicle is over 15 years old, you can basically import any Defender/90/110 you want. I would go with the 200Tdi, it's a very reliable engine, even though it maybe a little noisy. Aslo, with you living in Alberta, your close to Suffield, therefore parts are easier for you to get your hands on.

Have you checked out RockieMountainRoversForum Which is roughly based in the Calgary region. Lots of useful tips and they are putting things together for the summer.

Then there is RoverParkBoys in Edmonton. They just started a forum on their homepage, plus they just bought out Wise Owl in BC, so watch these guys, they are growing. Plus, there is a group of guys in Edmonton that are talking about starting a club in your area. Check they above forums for more information.

BTW, I didn't know that Bill's D90 had a history.
You have to tell more.

Cheers,
Todd.

Hi Todd,

THANK YOU so much for the advice. I've had some suggest doing the import myself but wondered how much less it would actually cost me to do this and also worried about potential problems but after hearing the things you've gone through it doesn't sound that bad. May I ask what approximately (no exact figures needed if not comfortable) it cost you to do this? Did you go to England first and do a bit of scouting first to see the vehicle first hand? Would you suggest that if you were to do it over again? How hard is it to find a LHD model?

As for this D90, I just wasn't comfortable with what the salesman was advertising it as. It didn't seem like they knew what they had or anything about it so it put me on the defensive right away and be cautious. I had a few different groups including East Coast Rovers look at the photos that were sent to me and they said it was certainly not what the dealership claimed it to be. The dealership got the engine wrong and then told me some info that wasn't quite correct as far as the Defender line was concerned. They also told me that this vehicle was once leaf sprung and then converted over to coils which leads me to think this was a Series truck at first and had a bunch of stuff done to it so in the end it sounded like it was a collection of parts put together to in the end look like a D90. I wasn't sure I was comfortable with a that as there seemed to be questions about it's assembly and origins, no offense intended to your friend if he is the one who did it. Knowing that info, it seemed rather hard for me to justify the asking price. This may have more to do with how the dealer is presenting the vehicle.

The idea of doing this whole process myself does seem more appealing as I have a feeling that there is a fair markup going through a middleman although this fellow seems on the up and up and I have no reason to doubt him but I know Defenders are priced fairly high here in NA because they are rare. I see the prices in the LR magazines and can't believe how much lower they are.

Thanks again for all the comments. It's very much appreciated as this is in my opinion is still a fair undertaking.

Hej Al,
It's not that hard to find a LHD landy in England. If your looking for ex-MOD (military), they are easy as pie.
If your unsure of buying private, then stick to the main dealers.
Would I do it agian, in a heart beat, I love visiting England and getting to see so many Land Rovers.
As for cost, your looking in the $2-3000 range total, for the shipping charges,washing, paper work and what ever else on the Canadian side. I could just imagine what the middle man would charge for his services above that.
Before you do anything, use the internet, thats where your going to get accurate information on importing and getting to see what is available in England.
As a matter of fact, it would be in your interest to look over in Belgium and Germany, both being LHD countries and there prices are cheaper than in England.

Todd.

Highly recommend you contact Stuart Foley at Foley Specialist Vehicles

http://www.foleyspecialistvehicles.co.uk

I went up to see him at the weekend and he was VERY helpful - gave me free advice for nearly 2 hours

Seems they import quite a lot of LHD from europe + also export quite a lot to Canada so worth getting in touch

Best of luck
Ian