Defender 2.5na engine rebuild

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H

Huw

Guest
Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the crank
is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of bottom end
bearings cost including installation labour for above engine? What are the
chances that the bores and crank are OK for that matter?

I've looked at several TD5 Discoveries and a Defender 110 PU [not a hi-cap]
and am also considering a new model hi-cap and a......um........dare I
say...........I'll say it quick........Ford ExplorerXLT super-cab. The Ford
has a 3 ton towing capacity, 143hp, a nice large cab with safety bars,
airbags, abs etc but it has a steel body and part time 4 wheel drive. Why am
I considering this thing? Because it has many advantages and costs £13200
which includes air-con and a six disc autochanger/mp3 thing,central locking,
electric windows and mirrors etc.
A basic 110 hi-cap with a similar engine is likely to cost over £18000 with
the essential abs.

Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just can't
let go.

Huw


 
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:31:55 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the crank
>is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of bottom end
>bearings cost including installation labour for above engine? What are the
>chances that the bores and crank are OK for that matter?

what has happened to your engine to warrant the rebuild?

the bits dont cost very much. its going to be the labour that costs
you more.

I rebuilt my 2.5n/a. it was always a heavy breather and had an oil
habit of about 1litre a day!

Youre local to me arnt you?.. i was driving to work one day in the
landy. the oil light came on at the first set of lights as you drive
down weston road towards crewe (just after caudwell/bargain booze). I
carried on through the stop/go traffic and got all the way to the
college on nantwich road before it ground to a halt and siezed up.

I found that the sump plug was missing. presumably it fell out at the
lights. It managed about 2 miles in fairly heavy traffic - and still
my engine didnt require any proper work, just bearings, piston rings
and a gasket set - and it probably needed most of them before that
point!
 

"Huw" wrote
> Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the crank
> is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of bottom end
> bearings cost including installation labour for above engine? What are the
> chances that the bores and crank are OK for that matter?
>
> I've looked at several TD5 Discoveries and a Defender 110 PU [not a
> hi-cap] and am also considering a new model hi-cap and
> a......um........dare I say...........I'll say it quick........Ford
> ExplorerXLT super-cab. The Ford has a 3 ton towing capacity, 143hp, a nice
> large cab with safety bars, airbags, abs etc but it has a steel body and
> part time 4 wheel drive. Why am I considering this thing? Because it has
> many advantages and costs £13200 which includes air-con and a six disc
> autochanger/mp3 thing,central locking, electric windows and mirrors etc.
> A basic 110 hi-cap with a similar engine is likely to cost over £18000
> with the essential abs.
>
> Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
> running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just can't
> let go.
>

You don't mention the age/mileage Huw, but if it's smoking it may well just
be the valve stem seals that need replacing. Was on my 2.5 petrol (I changed
them last week) and friends 2.5 na diesel.

I was under the impression you shouldn't change piston rings or pistons
without a rebore as the step in the bore will cause premature ring failure,
which is why I haven't changed the pistons in mine although two show some
very old damage to the crowns (broken spark plugs bouncing around?). No
doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong (and I'll then get underneath and
change them all). :-(

--
Regards
Bob H

1986 90 hardtop 2.5 petrol


 
Bob Hobden wrote:
> "Huw" wrote
>
>> Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the crank
>>is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of bottom end
>>bearings cost including installation labour for above engine? What are the
>>chances that the bores and crank are OK for that matter?
>>
>>I've looked at several TD5 Discoveries and a Defender 110 PU [not a
>>hi-cap] and am also considering a new model hi-cap and
>>a......um........dare I say...........I'll say it quick........Ford
>>ExplorerXLT super-cab. The Ford has a 3 ton towing capacity, 143hp, a nice
>>large cab with safety bars, airbags, abs etc but it has a steel body and
>>part time 4 wheel drive. Why am I considering this thing? Because it has
>>many advantages and costs £13200 which includes air-con and a six disc
>>autochanger/mp3 thing,central locking, electric windows and mirrors etc.
>>A basic 110 hi-cap with a similar engine is likely to cost over £18000
>>with the essential abs.
>>
>>Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
>>running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just can't
>>let go.
>>
>
>
> You don't mention the age/mileage Huw, but if it's smoking it may well just
> be the valve stem seals that need replacing. Was on my 2.5 petrol (I changed
> them last week) and friends 2.5 na diesel.
>
> I was under the impression you shouldn't change piston rings or pistons
> without a rebore as the step in the bore will cause premature ring failure,
> which is why I haven't changed the pistons in mine although two show some
> very old damage to the crowns (broken spark plugs bouncing around?). No
> doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong (and I'll then get underneath and
> change them all). :-(
>

You can get piston rings with steps in them, to get round that issue ...

--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible
warning.' Catherine Aird
 
Duracell Bunny wrote:
>
> You can get piston rings with steps in them, to get round that issue ...

Or just file a chamfer onto the top ring (rough I know but it works).

Or use a ridge remover to solve the problem.

--
EMB
 
On or around Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:31:55 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
>running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just can't
>let go.

chuck a decent second-hand TDi in it?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Where they make a desert they call it peace" Tacitus (c.55 - c.117)
Agricola, 30
 
Tom Woods wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:31:55 +0100, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the
>> crank is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of
>> bottom end bearings cost including installation labour for above
>> engine? What are the chances that the bores and crank are OK for
>> that matter?
>
> what has happened to your engine to warrant the rebuild?


It is worn out basically. It knocks as if there is a man with a hammer
inside. It starts and pulls fine although oil consumption has risen from
about a litre every 2000 miles [which is what it has always used] to around
a litre every 750 miles lately. The oil consumption is not what worries me,
it is the increasing knocking which indicates a potential rod out of the
side of the block.

>
> the bits dont cost very much. its going to be the labour that costs
> you more.
>
> I rebuilt my 2.5n/a. it was always a heavy breather and had an oil
> habit of about 1litre a day!
>
> Youre local to me arnt you?..

If you consider 100 miles away local :). Well I could be if you live in
Ceredigion.



i was driving to work one day in the
> landy. the oil light came on at the first set of lights as you drive
> down weston road towards crewe (just after caudwell/bargain booze). I
> carried on through the stop/go traffic and got all the way to the
> college on nantwich road before it ground to a halt and siezed up.
>
> I found that the sump plug was missing. presumably it fell out at the
> lights. It managed about 2 miles in fairly heavy traffic - and still
> my engine didnt require any proper work, just bearings, piston rings
> and a gasket set - and it probably needed most of them before that
> point!

Mine has just done an extrodinary amount of hard work.

Huw


 
Bob Hobden wrote:
> "Huw" wrote
>> Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the
>> crank is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of
>> bottom end bearings cost including installation labour for above
>> engine? What are the chances that the bores and crank are OK for
>> that matter? I've looked at several TD5 Discoveries and a Defender 110 PU
>> [not a
>> hi-cap] and am also considering a new model hi-cap and
>> a......um........dare I say...........I'll say it quick........Ford
>> ExplorerXLT super-cab. The Ford has a 3 ton towing capacity, 143hp,
>> a nice large cab with safety bars, airbags, abs etc but it has a
>> steel body and part time 4 wheel drive. Why am I considering this
>> thing? Because it has many advantages and costs £13200 which
>> includes air-con and a six disc autochanger/mp3 thing,central
>> locking, electric windows and mirrors etc. A basic 110 hi-cap with a
>> similar engine is likely to cost over £18000 with the essential abs.
>>
>> Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
>> running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just
>> can't let go.
>>
>
> You don't mention the age/mileage Huw, but if it's smoking it may
> well just be the valve stem seals that need replacing. Was on my 2.5
> petrol (I changed them last week) and friends 2.5 na diesel.

1984 with 130,000 miles at an average of less than 10mph, about 15% of which
has been towing more than two tons.


>
> I was under the impression you shouldn't change piston rings or
> pistons without a rebore as the step in the bore will cause premature
> ring failure, which is why I haven't changed the pistons in mine
> although two show some very old damage to the crowns (broken spark
> plugs bouncing around?). No doubt someone will correct me if I'm
> wrong (and I'll then get underneath and change them all). :-(

When the head was off to replace a gasket some five years ago there was no
discernible step in the bore but the pistons themselves appeared worn and
were quite a slack fit. I think maybe things have gone downhill a bit since.

Huw


 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:31:55 +0100, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>> Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
>> running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just
>> can't let go.
>
> chuck a decent second-hand TDi in it?

If I did that then I would put the whole transmission in as well because
with the amount of work it has done on original gearbox it is bound to fail
if more power was put through it.
The question is, I suppose, how much money am I justified in throwing at
such an old and hard worked vehicle?
I can't see many people queuing up to buy it, even at £1500, which makes it
a viable project for someone I'd have thought. If it costs over £1000
including labour to fix the engine plus the £600 odd that it needs to pass
the MOT, then it is aiming at the scrappy unfortunately. Everything wears
out eventually although I am sure my 110 could be kept going for a while
longer if I risked throwing good money after bad.

Huw


 
Bob Hobden wrote:
> "Huw" wrote
>> Am considering my options. Assuming the bores are OK and that the
>> crank is good, how much would four piston sets and a complete set of
>> bottom end bearings cost including installation labour for above
>> engine? What are the chances that the bores and crank are OK for
>> that matter? I've looked at several TD5 Discoveries and a Defender 110 PU [not
>> a
>> hi-cap] and am also considering a new model hi-cap and
>> a......um........dare I say...........I'll say it quick........Ford
>> ExplorerXLT super-cab. The Ford has a 3 ton towing capacity, 143hp,
>> a nice large cab with safety bars, airbags, abs etc but it has a
>> steel body and part time 4 wheel drive. Why am I considering this
>> thing? Because it has many advantages and costs £13200 which
>> includes air-con and a six disc autochanger/mp3 thing,central
>> locking, electric windows and mirrors etc. A basic 110 hi-cap with a
>> similar engine is likely to cost over £18000 with the essential abs.
>>
>> Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
>> running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just
>> can't let go.
>>
>
> You don't mention the age/mileage Huw, but if it's smoking it may
> well just be the valve stem seals that need replacing. Was on my 2.5
> petrol (I changed them last week) and friends 2.5 na diesel.
>
> I was under the impression you shouldn't change piston rings or
> pistons without a rebore as the step in the bore will cause premature
> ring failure, which is why I haven't changed the pistons in mine
> although two show some very old damage to the crowns (broken spark
> plugs bouncing around?). No doubt someone will correct me if I'm
> wrong (and I'll then get underneath and change them all). :-(

Can do it so long as stepped top rings are used and they're put in the right way
up!

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
On or around Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:33:59 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>> On or around Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:31:55 +0100, "Huw"
>> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>
>>> Frankly I am looking for justification just to keep the 110 I've got,
>>> running a few years more. I must be going senile or in love. I just
>>> can't let go.
>>
>> chuck a decent second-hand TDi in it?
>
>If I did that then I would put the whole transmission in as well because
>with the amount of work it has done on original gearbox it is bound to fail
>if more power was put through it.
>The question is, I suppose, how much money am I justified in throwing at
>such an old and hard worked vehicle?
>I can't see many people queuing up to buy it, even at £1500, which makes it
>a viable project for someone I'd have thought. If it costs over £1000
>including labour to fix the engine plus the £600 odd that it needs to pass
>the MOT, then it is aiming at the scrappy unfortunately. Everything wears
>out eventually although I am sure my 110 could be kept going for a while
>longer if I risked throwing good money after bad.

Unless you're going to replace it with a MUCH newer (or new) one there's
little to be gained by changing, though, unless you happen across a
low-mileage one going cheap. If the chassis is OK on yours, there's some
merit in keeping it; you know the history and which bits are likely to be a
problem.

one of the chassis suppliers offers a built-up rolling chassis with either
S/H or recon TDi powertrain in place including axles (depending on how much
you spend - I think the one with everything reconned was about 5K).

which has the potential with a bit of work (have you got offspring to help?)
to rebuild on a new chassis for well under half the price of a new one.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count,
and those who can't" (Anon)
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> Unless you're going to replace it with a MUCH newer (or new) one
> there's little to be gained by changing, though, unless you happen
> across a low-mileage one going cheap.

Hi-cap pick-ups in good condition are rare as hens teeth. Will not even
consider the standard 110 pick-up because of the compromised load area
although there is a four year old one available locally at £10,000.




If the chassis is OK on yours,
> there's some merit in keeping it; you know the history and which bits
> are likely to be a problem.

The chassis is original and fine due to waxoiling when new and a few
additional sheets of galvanised sheet applied to stop **** settling on the
rear crossmember.

The rest of the vehicle is hard worked and approaching the point where
anything could fail.

>
> one of the chassis suppliers offers a built-up rolling chassis with
> either S/H or recon TDi powertrain in place including axles
> (depending on how much you spend - I think the one with everything
> reconned was about 5K).
>
> which has the potential with a bit of work (have you got offspring to
> help?) to rebuild on a new chassis for well under half the price of a
> new one.

No willing offspring and no time to do it myself even if I had the
inclination.

Huw


 

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>> Unless you're going to replace it with a MUCH newer (or new) one
>> there's little to be gained by changing, though, unless you happen
>> across a low-mileage one going cheap.
>
> Hi-cap pick-ups in good condition are rare as hens teeth. Will not even
> consider the standard 110 pick-up because of the compromised load area
> although there is a four year old one available locally at £10,000.
>
>
>
>
> If the chassis is OK on yours,
>> there's some merit in keeping it; you know the history and which bits
>> are likely to be a problem.
>
> The chassis is original and fine due to waxoiling when new and a few
> additional sheets of galvanised sheet applied to stop **** settling on the
> rear crossmember.
>
> The rest of the vehicle is hard worked and approaching the point where
> anything could fail.
>
>>
>> one of the chassis suppliers offers a built-up rolling chassis with
>> either S/H or recon TDi powertrain in place including axles
>> (depending on how much you spend - I think the one with everything
>> reconned was about 5K).
>>
>> which has the potential with a bit of work (have you got offspring to
>> help?) to rebuild on a new chassis for well under half the price of a
>> new one.
>
> No willing offspring and no time to do it myself even if I had the
> inclination.
>
> Huw
>
Hi Huw
After 2 attempts at half rebuilding lr diesel engines I can tell you it
doesnt work. get it re-bored if your knock sounds like a loud diesel knock
it will almost definately be piston slap due to worn bores

Icky


 
On or around Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:23:46 GMT, "icky"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Hi Huw
>After 2 attempts at half rebuilding lr diesel engines I can tell you it
>doesnt work. get it re-bored if your knock sounds like a loud diesel knock
>it will almost definately be piston slap due to worn bores

I'd go along with that - if you're going to the trouble and expense of a
rebuild, do the whole thing. I too have done partial rebuilds and you don't
get much more life for your effort.

But if I were Huw I'd be looking at a TDi transplant, complete with gearbox
- probably less work and a better engine at the end of it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:23:46 GMT, "icky"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Hi Huw
>>After 2 attempts at half rebuilding lr diesel engines I can tell you it
>>doesnt work. get it re-bored if your knock sounds like a loud diesel knock
>>it will almost definately be piston slap due to worn bores
>
> I'd go along with that - if you're going to the trouble and expense of a
> rebuild, do the whole thing. I too have done partial rebuilds and you
> don't
> get much more life for your effort.
>
> But if I were Huw I'd be looking at a TDi transplant, complete with
> gearbox
> - probably less work and a better engine at the end of it.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
> I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

I bet your still laughing now ( i would be) the tdi option is without
question the best option... discos going cheap cheap on ebay is a possible
way of doing it


 
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