1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

Freelander 1 Clutch low bite point again

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by freelandy2004, Jun 7, 2017.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. freelandy2004

    freelandy2004 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    coventry
    Hi all
    Iv had my freelander Td4 about 18 months now the gear change has never been great but usable
    then the synchromesh went so I had a second hand gear box and new clutch fitted all ok for couple of days then the bite point went low so back in it went new master cylinder this time same again ok for couple of days then low bite point
    bleeding it up helped for a bit then steadily back to normal, done some reading up on here and one post on here got me thinking it said the rod on master cylinder wasn't long enough and he had lengthen it.
    So I got on my knees at the side of the car pressed the clutch with one hand checked out the master with the other I found out the plastic bit that attaches to the pedal was hitting the main body of the master before the pedal hit the floor
    So I disconnected the master from the pedal then in the engine bay I disconnected the master from the engine bulk head then trimmed approx 1/2 inch of plastic off the end that attaches to peddle (see pic)
    then reassembled it
    18901897_10156193259368032_1604672397_o.jpg 18927204_10156193278063032_1299104809_o.jpg 18927006_10156193278018032_1324505027_o.jpg 18836400_10156193277883032_1282383861_o.jpg
    My clutch pedal now has more travel so it effectively my bite point is now higher ( even though it hasn't moved )
    pic 1 normal master cylinder
    pic2 trimmed master cylinder
    pic3 shows where normal master cylinder closes too
    pic 4 shows where trimmed master cylinder closes too
    been running like this for about 2 weeks now and all still ok haven't had chance to bleed it up yet since doing this mod will try this weekend it better probably the best its ever been not perfect but better
     
    Burntweenie likes this.
  2. James Rogers

    James Rogers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Posts:
    170
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Framlingham
    Not a solution but to save you bleeding the clutch if you wedge the pedal down overnight it will self bleed if there isn't much air in it.
     
  3. freelandy2004

    freelandy2004 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    coventry
    thanks for the suggestion I was only bleed it too get it to perfection well happy with it at min though
    welcome to landyzone
     
  4. James Rogers

    James Rogers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Posts:
    170
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Framlingham
    If I've ever bled a clutch and ive got it over night I wedge the clutch down. It forces all the tiny air bubbles out .
    Thanks. Hope to contribute a lot. I don't know anything about land rovers really. But I own one and I'm a coach mechanic.
     
  5. dog-man

    dog-man Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    951
    Likes Received:
    74

    The bite on my FL1 TD4 2006 is low and has always been low, but does seem a little lower these days.

    I understand very little about the Freelander clutch system, but can someone explain how wedging down the clutch pedal overnight can remove air from the system?
    Isn't it necessary to open a bleed valve or something to allow the air to escape?
    If no, where does the air go?
     
  6. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    25,309
    Likes Received:
    6,642
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    The idea of holding the pedal down overnight is a mechanic's equivalent of a wife's tale. In theory it shouldn't make any difference and definitely can't bleed the system. The theory is that the air is squeezed out of the system and up into the reservoir. However this can't happen, because the reservoir is sealed off, the moment the pedal is pressed down. I suppose it is possible for the air to accumulate in the master cylinder, being passed into the reservoir, the moment the pedal is released.
    I've never found it to work myself. I find cycling the pedal up and down, a more effective way to remove excess air. However correctly bleeding the system is the best way to get the air out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
    teddywood1 and dog-man like this.
  7. James Rogers

    James Rogers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Posts:
    170
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Framlingham
    I'd bleed it with a vacuum pump and someone topping up the fluid. But once I've bled them I wedge the pedal down with the cap off and leave it overnight. What harm can it do?? A very good mechanic mate of mine told me to do it so I am blindly following his advice
     
  8. K14

    K14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Posts:
    295
    Likes Received:
    126
    Location:
    Suffolk
    I drain my fluid at the slave bleed nipple, then fit a piece of clear pipe from the bleed nipple to an oil can and pump it until the reservoir is full. The main advantage being your forcing air out the way it naturally wants to go.
     
  9. K14

    K14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Posts:
    295
    Likes Received:
    126
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Meant to say, after I drain the system I push the pedal to the floor (it will stay down) before reverse bleeding. Once finished flick pedal up and all should be good.
     
  10. Burntweenie

    Burntweenie Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Posts:
    28
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Orkney
    Very interesting, makes a lot of sense - will have a look and possibly give this a go later. How is it performing now (after a couple of months)?

    Cheers
     
  11. freelandy2004

    freelandy2004 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    coventry
    still working well still so well I haven't got round to bleeding it yet
    it's easy to check if it will help just press your clutch pedal by hand then if the end of the master meets the body of the master and there is a gap between pedal and floor it will help
    if you do it u don't have to disconnect the master from the slave it's all easy to do while still connected in engine bay
    before I did this mod my bit point was so low it would judder if I left it gear and dipped the clutch at traffic lights
    hope it helps
    gd. luck with her
     
  12. Burntweenie

    Burntweenie Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Posts:
    28
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Orkney
    Did the mod as described (very easy, 5 min job) but the bite point is still low. I've just noticed a very small weep of oil (not a drip) between the n/s of the engine block and the bell housing, so it looks like she'll up up on the lift when I get home to Orkney.

    Gear changes have been a bit a bit smoother since the bleed/fluid change, but I've only been pootling around Aberdeen on short journeys.

    Many thanks for the advice though!
     
  13. freelandy2004

    freelandy2004 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    coventry
    your welcome did you check the if there was a gap between peddle and floor before you did the mod

    if you check the master again press the clutch by hand and check if there is any more travel left on the master
    if there is and the peddle is to the floor u can cut a little carpet away to give u more travel
    if you need more you could cut a small v out of the peddle bend it up and re weld to give u more travel (not tried this myself but in theory may help)
    gd. luck with it
     
  14. rob_bell

    rob_bell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Posts:
    2,717
    Likes Received:
    622
    Location:
    London
    I am being thick: I can't work out the bit you've modified? Sounds like a neat mod though!
     
  15. freelandy2004

    freelandy2004 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Posts:
    147
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    coventry
    no your not thick m8 on mine (td4) when I pressed the clutch to the floor I found the plastic bits ether end of the master was meeting before the pedal was hitting the floor (see pic 1) so I trimmed some of the plastic off the end that that attaches to the pedal (see pic 2) now my pedal can hit the floor I also cut a bit of carpet out too get a bit more
    my idea was if your bit point is at a certain point and you can press your pedal further past that point when you release the clutch pedal it has further to travel back up too your bite point and in theory this would raise your bite point (even though it hasn't moved)
    hope this helps if I sense at all
    regards
     
  16. Alibro

    Alibro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Posts:
    5,891
    Likes Received:
    1,727
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    There are four pics there Rob, if you click on each of them the difference is obvious. I had the same confusion first time I looked at this. I have a low bite point too and I suspect it is because I cheaped out and bought a master cylinder off ebay. Don't matter how much I bleed it the bite point is low.
    I suspect most of the low bite point issues flagged up (after clutches etc are changed) are down to cheapo master cylinders.
     
  17. rob_bell

    rob_bell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Posts:
    2,717
    Likes Received:
    622
    Location:
    London
    Aaaahhhhh! I've got it now! :) Sorry, I really was being thick! I thought I was quite good at those "spot the difference" picture competitions! LOL

    I see that we are looking at the shroud of the actuator end of the master cylinder - cutting it down to the cone section provides the additional movement. Nice.

    My clutch doesn't completely disengage - it may be a similar problem - and may be the usual PG1/Freelander problem of brackets flexing and the clutch arm partially seizing in the bell housing. Strangely, this is all much easier to get to on an MGF! LOL ;)
     
  18. Burntweenie

    Burntweenie Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Posts:
    28
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Orkney
    Just a quick sit rep - the Hippo never missed a beat on the drive back up the A96 and A9 to Thurso from Aberdeen, so between this mod and a good old fashioned fluid change and bleed, problem solved. Many thanks to all on this and the bleed thread, great advice. Cheers gents!
     
    Alibro likes this.
  19. Alibro

    Alibro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Posts:
    5,891
    Likes Received:
    1,727
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Good to hear it's sorted. Mine seems to have improved a little by itself. :) Either that or I've got used to it :p
     
  20. dog-man

    dog-man Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    951
    Likes Received:
    74
    I am no mechanic but can follow instructions and do what I can to avoid garage bills.
    I have been under my TD4 2006 today looking for this push rod to look at trimming the plastic shroud but I can't even find it.

    Can someone please direct an idiot to where it can be found. I have looked from underneath and down from above. It's pouring with rain so that may have made me curtail my search sooner than I should have. :)

    TD4 2006.
     
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >