Bushes, Poly vs Rubber - or a hybrid.

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kernowsvenski

kernowsvenski

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I'm about to embark on a prolonged period of bush replacement. I'm well aware of the differing opinions/pros & cons of OEM rubber vs polyurethane but I can't help thinking that sometimes rubber is better, and for other occasions, an alternative might be advantageous.

Although it's not always preferable, I've always been a believer that rubberring up will see you safe. However, sometimes you just don't want rubber. A comfortable alternative may save you from additional unwanted pain. So, I was wondering about general opinions and experiences.

To that end...
I'm thinking rubber every time, with exceptions as follows;
Diff front mounting
Engine tie bars
ARB bushes

I want smoothness and capability, but also longevity and a certain amount of rigidity. Thoughts?
 
Vehicle manufacturers spend a lot of time working on design of components. This includes bushes and rubber mounts. The engine mounts are rubber to take out the shock vibration when forst starting, and general vibration when you change gear, revs etc. The rear diff mounts use rubber to take out vibration from the diff which echo's along the rear prop. The damper on some vcu's is also fitted for this reason. Rubber in the diff mounts allows the rear diff to move about when oft road. The vcu mounts use rubber to reduce vibration into the cabin, like all the other rubber mounts. Rubber doesn't remove every vibration but it's noticeable when I drive someone else's Freelander with nylon/plastic replacements for rubber. Especially petrols.

If you poly bush the above (by changing to non rubber solid bush) then yer risk vibration into the cabin. LR won't want that on a new vehicle because they want a smooth ride which is why they use rubber. Older Freelanders with a few rattles etc... it won't be so noticeable. Especially if using budget tyres.

Put yer phone or simular in the tray on top of the centre consol lid. Take yer Freelander for a drive and it won't be long before the phone jumps oft the lid. Reason being vibration. Vibrations resonate through a car and cause all sorts of strange sounds. Personally I would never poly bush a Freelander or any other car. Having to change the front centre mount on the rear diff is a right of passage into Freelandering. Especially when it's fekin cold with snow ont floor. It doesn't need changed that often and helps to reduce the initial shock of power when pulling alway. It is also a good warning of a vcu which is past it's best if in keeps failing.

As said I would never poly bush a vehicle. Poly bush came out years ago for the great unwashed to fit to their rust heaps as a cheap alternative for the home diyer. They don't mind driving along to the sound of a washing machine full of marbles ont full spin. Some Freelanderers like them anorl and thats fine if they're happy with it.
 
I'd fit poly in place of some bushes without a problem. But other places only rubber will do the job correctly.
Front wishbones should be rubber bushed as there're designed to allow for some rearward movement over bumps. Poly replacements don't allow this rearward movement which gives a harsh ride at the front.
ARB bushes can be poly, which would actually stiffen the ARB mounts, improving action.
Engine tie bars need to be rubber as poly transfers far to much vibration through to the body, unless it's a V6 which can get away with the lower tie bar bush being poly.
Rear suspension lower arms are designed with rubber on the links. The rubber is designed to compress slightly under cornering, which gives a slight increase in tow. The forward link is designed to allow slight rearward movement on bumps, just like the front wishbone. This takes out the harshness over sharp bumps, improving ride quality.
Front diff mount can be poly or quality rubber. Providing the VCU is working and all tyres are identical, then OE rubber diff mounts have a very long life.
Poly here doesn't make to much extra vibration as the diff is mounted to the rear subframe. The subframe it's self will provide some insulation from the additional noise transferred by the poly mount.

As said by Hippo. Manufacturers spend large sums of money designing bushes, so they locate the components firmly, without transferring to much unwanted noise to the cabin.


If you are replacing bushes with standard rubber, then consider replacing the the whole links instead. You save buying the bush and save labour costs or time fitting them. Front wishbones come with new front bushes, so only the large rear bush needs separate replacement.
The rear suspension links are surprisingly cheap and come fitted with new bushes in them. I'm planning on replacing all my rear links this year as well as the shocks. This will tighten up the rear end and improve ride quality. I did the front bushes last year which made a huge difference to the noise and the ride quality. I'll do the shocks ar the same time as the rear shocks, just to even up the damping all round. I'm thinking of using 2006 Sport shocks and springs which are stiffer but standard ride hight. This should complement my Sport rims perfectly.
 
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Good comprehensive responses there @Hippo and @Nodge68
Many thanks.

I was generally of a similar opinion regarding manufacturers using rubber for good reason and spending a lot of money on developing vehicles they way they do. I was just wondering about the benefits of minor tweaks to some parts which may be beneficial. I generally favour OEM setups but I like the odd mod here and there if there is a tangible benefit.

My intention is to replace the wishbones, which will obviously come with bushes, and fit new rear rubbers (with some assistance...). I also thought I'd replace the rear links complete. My thoughts were similar to your's Nodge, in that they are low cost complete and so it's not worth the hassle of pressing out old bushes and pressing in new ones. Based on the comments above, I think that when the time comes I shall replace the engine tie bars like for like - with rubber. I've already ordered genuine LR arb bushes now so that's decided that anyway. I'll keep my mind open RE the diff mount. I've recently replaced it with a standard mount so there is no rush for a decision on that. I kept the old one so that I had the option to get a polybush in it at the ready for future failure, but I may not bother now.
 
Regarding the trailing links, are the bushes reasonably easy to press out on those? I will replace all the other the rear links complete I think but the trailing arms seem to be disproportionately expensive compared to the others. The bushes on mine are shot but there is nothing wrong with the metal and it seems a waste to change the whole arm.
 
kernowsvenski said:
Regarding the trailing links, are the bushes reasonably easy to press out on those?
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A Delphi trailing link is £57 and the Delphi bush is £17. So as long as there's less than £40 of labour to swap the bush, then there's a saving.
In my experience, old suspension bushes can be buggers to remove, often needing to be sawn through. Then the bore needs cleaning and any saw damage cleaned up, before the new bush needs pressing in.
It can be such a game, that I don't bother these days. I'd choose to replace the complete links instead.
For example, if replacing the trailing link bush takes 30 minutes at garage prices, then the labour will basically be equal to the extra cost of the complete link. So you'll end up with an old rusty link fitted with a new bush that cost almost as much as a shiny new link, once the labour has been factored in.


Additionally having all new parts means a reasonably simple swap of all old components, which can be purchased in advance. If you start having trouble removing old and potentially stubborn bushes in the middle of the suspension parts swap, then it can become a real pain, slowing down the process dramatically.

That's just my view of course and assumes you'll be paying for someone else to change the bushes.
If you change the bushes yourself, then there's a financial saving to be made, but at the expense of your time. ;)
 
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The tyre fitter I use said the same as above. I was asking them what else they do as well as tyres. The usual brakes, eggsauce, air con top up and oil change service etc. Spotted a press but the only person who uses it is he resident disco owner/fitter who rebuilds his own vehicles. They tell you to buy the new part with bushes as it's not worth the hassel and cost of them changing the bush. They're not bothered about not getting the bush fit work.

There's loads of cheap presses on eBay. The strength rating advertised is way higher that what most can physically do. They should be avoided as they're dangerous.
 
kernowsvenski said:
Nice one Nodge. :) They look a good outfit.
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I've used AF many times as have other LR owners I know. They are generally pretty good at what they do, and are always happy to help if you call them.;)
kernowsvenski said:
I've also found a Lemforder one for £54 from a generic online supplier.
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Delphi was the original part supplier for the FL1, but Lemforder are just as good, being one of the current LR suppliers. I fitted Lemforder components to my D3 suspension, which was it's OE component supplier.

Just make sur you use the same make for each component on both sides. Don't mix Delphi and Lemforder for mirror image parts. ;)
 
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