Buggrit! Something has broken in my front axle

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S

Srtgray

Guest
For a few weeks I have hearing a "crunking" noise from the front axle
when turning, particularly at full lock. Today it went "bang" and no
drive. The thing runs with the diff lock on, so I am guessing that
something has gone in the front axle, either:

diff

half shaft

CV joint in swivel

1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
little as possible)

2)How do I troubleshoot what exactly is wrong?

I'm guessing that the diff will be the easiest to repair, but that
question is moot until I know exactly what is wrong.

She's a 1983 110 V8 CSW.

TIA,
Stuart
 
On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>For a few weeks I have hearing a "crunking" noise from the front axle
>when turning, particularly at full lock. Today it went "bang" and no
>drive. The thing runs with the diff lock on, so I am guessing that
>something has gone in the front axle, either:
>
>diff
>
>half shaft
>
>CV joint in swivel

one of them, aye :)

>1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
>little as possible)

front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.

>2)How do I troubleshoot what exactly is wrong?
>
>I'm guessing that the diff will be the easiest to repair, but that
>question is moot until I know exactly what is wrong.

starting on one side, undo the drive flange, remove a circlip and shims
under the rubberoid hat, remove the driver, remove hub nuts and hub, then
unbolt and remove stub axle from swivel housing. if it's the CV, it will
immediately be apparent. if the CV is OK, pull the half shaft and see that
it's sound. You'll get some axle oil and also swivel oil (if it's not got
one-shot grease, in which case you'll get that instead)

If that side's OK, do the same the other side. If both CVs and shafts are
OK, then it looks like the diff...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>>For a few weeks I have hearing a "crunking" noise from the front axle
>>when turning, particularly at full lock. Today it went "bang" and no
>>drive. The thing runs with the diff lock on, so I am guessing that
>>something has gone in the front axle, either:
>>
>>diff
>>
>>half shaft
>>
>>CV joint in swivel
>
>
> one of them, aye :)
>

Ah, good, my diagnostic skills are still in fine fettle :)

>
>>1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>>guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
>>little as possible)
>
>
> front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.
>
>
>>2)How do I troubleshoot what exactly is wrong?
>>
>>I'm guessing that the diff will be the easiest to repair, but that
>>question is moot until I know exactly what is wrong.
>
>
> starting on one side, undo the drive flange, remove a circlip and shims
> under the rubberoid hat, remove the driver, remove hub nuts and hub, then
> unbolt and remove stub axle from swivel housing. if it's the CV, it will
> immediately be apparent. if the CV is OK, pull the half shaft and see that
> it's sound. You'll get some axle oil and also swivel oil (if it's not got
> one-shot grease, in which case you'll get that instead)
>

Daft question, but is this a "wheel off" job?

> If that side's OK, do the same the other side. If both CVs and shafts are
> OK, then it looks like the diff...

Ta muchly,

Stuart
 


> 1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
If it were me speaking from past experience, I simply would not drive the
vehicle till sorted. Had a series 3 a few years ago, broke a rear half
shaft, Thought not a problem put it in 4x4 drive on the front axle thought I
to get home. Unfortunately what snapped the halfshaft in the first place was
a dodgy gear box, upshot was while doing about 30 mph almost home bearbox
decides to go funny again, and shagged the front drive shaft big style,
which instantly locked the front axle solid, result was loss of control ans
slap a wall on a bridge deck, and as if that wasn't bad enough has the
missus and crumb snatcher on board.

> 2)How do I troubleshoot what exactly is wrong?
Strip it and have a look


 
simon wrote:
>>1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>
> If it were me speaking from past experience, I simply would not drive the
> vehicle till sorted. Had a series 3 a few years ago, broke a rear half
> shaft, Thought not a problem put it in 4x4 drive on the front axle thought I
> to get home. Unfortunately what snapped the halfshaft in the first place was
> a dodgy gear box, upshot was while doing about 30 mph almost home bearbox
> decides to go funny again, and shagged the front drive shaft big style,
> which instantly locked the front axle solid, result was loss of control ans
> slap a wall on a bridge deck, and as if that wasn't bad enough has the
> missus and crumb snatcher on board.
>
>

Yes, I had to do that once when a rear halfshaft on my SII 109" went.
Luckily no further incidents, but the handling was, er, interesting.

>>2)How do I troubleshoot what exactly is wrong?
>
> Strip it and have a look

Yes, you're probably right :)

Stuart
>
>
 
On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:32:51 +0200, Srtgray
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Daft question, but is this a "wheel off" job?

yep. actually, technically, I think you can pull the hub with the wheel on
it, but I don't see how it'd help :)
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>> 1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>> guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
>> little as possible)
>
> front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.

That's all good until the CV joint (if it's a CV thats the problem)
screams enough and locks up solid, tearing the steering wheel out of
your hand and firing you off either into the scenery or the opposing
traffic.

I'd suggest finding alternative transport and getting it fixed pronto.

--
EMB
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:32:51 +0200, Srtgray
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Daft question, but is this a "wheel off" job?
>
> yep. actually, technically, I think you can pull the hub with the wheel
on
> it, but I don't see how it'd help :)
>
You wouldn't be able to pull the hub and wheel off together without
first removing the brake caliper which itself would be a PITA with the wheel
on.

It would save you a bit of time if you can tell which side is noisy and
remove that one first.

Martin.


 
Oily wrote:
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:32:51 +0200, Srtgray
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>
>>>Daft question, but is this a "wheel off" job?
>>
>>yep. actually, technically, I think you can pull the hub with the wheel
>
> on
>
>>it, but I don't see how it'd help :)
>>
>
> You wouldn't be able to pull the hub and wheel off together without
> first removing the brake caliper which itself would be a PITA with the wheel
> on.
>
> It would save you a bit of time if you can tell which side is noisy and
> remove that one first.
>
> Martin.
>
>
We (SWMBO and I) think it was the left. However, the steering was heavy
and trying to "self centre" a bit more than I was used to - almost like
running the old SII in four wheel drive on the road. I'm thinking
therefore that the diff might be at fault, since also there was nothing
when running straight ahead.

Stuart
 
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:39:51 +0200, Srtgray <[email protected]>
wrote:

>simon wrote:
>>>1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>>
>> If it were me speaking from past experience, I simply would not drive the
>> vehicle till sorted. Had a series 3 a few years ago, broke a rear half
>> shaft, Thought not a problem put it in 4x4 drive on the front axle thought I
>> to get home. Unfortunately what snapped the halfshaft in the first place was
>> a dodgy gear box, upshot was while doing about 30 mph almost home bearbox
>> decides to go funny again, and shagged the front drive shaft big style,
>> which instantly locked the front axle solid, result was loss of control ans
>> slap a wall on a bridge deck, and as if that wasn't bad enough has the
>> missus and crumb snatcher on board.
>
>
>Yes, I had to do that once when a rear halfshaft on my SII 109" went.
>Luckily no further incidents, but the handling was, er, interesting.
>

Even more interesting on mine, as the steering arm on the n/s wheel
decided to work its way loose from the swivel. I can only assume
driving it on the front axle only for a week contributed to it.
Anyway, now it's in dock for chassis repairs, new half-shaft, and
several other items.

Alex
 
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray <[email protected]>
scribbled the following nonsense:

>For a few weeks I have hearing a "crunking" noise from the front axle
>when turning, particularly at full lock. Today it went "bang" and no
>drive. The thing runs with the diff lock on, so I am guessing that
>something has gone in the front axle, either:
>
>diff
>
>half shaft
>
>CV joint in swivel
>
>1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
>little as possible)
>
>2)How do I troubleshoot what exactly is wrong?
>
>I'm guessing that the diff will be the easiest to repair, but that
>question is moot until I know exactly what is wrong.
>
>She's a 1983 110 V8 CSW.
>
>TIA,
>Stuart

noises on full lock tend to point towards CV joints. If it has
exploded, I certainly would not want to be doing 10 mph, never mind 50
or 60mph if broken bits cause it to lock....
--

Simon Isaacs

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote"
George Jean Nathan (1882-1955)

ROT13 me....
 

"Srtgray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oily wrote:
> > "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:32:51 +0200, Srtgray
> >><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Daft question, but is this a "wheel off" job?
> >>
> >>yep. actually, technically, I think you can pull the hub with the wheel
> >
> > on
> >
> >>it, but I don't see how it'd help :)
> >>
> >
> > You wouldn't be able to pull the hub and wheel off together without
> > first removing the brake caliper which itself would be a PITA with the
wheel
> > on.
> >
> > It would save you a bit of time if you can tell which side is noisy
and
> > remove that one first.
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> >
> We (SWMBO and I) think it was the left. However, the steering was heavy
> and trying to "self centre" a bit more than I was used to - almost like
> running the old SII in four wheel drive on the road. I'm thinking
> therefore that the diff might be at fault, since also there was nothing
> when running straight ahead.
>
> Stuart

But you wouldn't waste any time or effort by stripping the left C/V out
first to check because to remove the diff unit you will have to pull the
halfshafts out anyway.

Martin.


 
On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:05:20 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>But you wouldn't waste any time or effort by stripping the left C/V out
>first to check because to remove the diff unit you will have to pull the
>halfshafts out anyway.

I had this in mind in my post, too. which is why it doesn't suggest that
you put the first one back having found it to be OK...

Had diff side bearing cage break up in a burper van once, and that produced
some "interesting" handling as every now and then bits got stuck in the ball
race...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"If you cannot mould yourself as you would wish, how can you expect
other people to be entirely to your liking?"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xvi.
 
On or around Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:24:52 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>> 1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) - I'm
>>> guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
>>> little as possible)
>>
>> front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.
>
>That's all good until the CV joint (if it's a CV thats the problem)
>screams enough and locks up solid, tearing the steering wheel out of
>your hand and firing you off either into the scenery or the opposing
>traffic.

good point. Actually, I think it should be possible to remove the whole of
one half-shaft and CV assembly and run it like that... I assume the sun
gears and planet gears stay put in the diff without a half-shaft present...
actually, don't know if they do. anyone?

HBOL predictably uninformative. an ever increasing part of the HBOL is a
phrase along the lines of "dismantling and overhauling <assembly> is very
difficult and requires many special tools, you have to measure things and
shim them, and you can't get the parts, so don't do it." now in some cases
this is true, but in others it's a load of bollox.

In the case of, for example, the gearbox on my sierra, it says all that. Now
the sierra had 2 very different 5-speed boxes, the early one which is
basically a 4-speed with an added 5th gear in the tailshaft section and the
later one (MT75) which is much more complicated to work on. The early one
is a piece of **** to strip and rebuild, requires just one special tool to
dislodge one of the bearings, which I made from a thick bit of wire that
used to be a bucket handle.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:24:52 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Austin Shackles wrote:
> >> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
> >> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>> 1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) -
I'm
> >>> guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
> >>> little as possible)
> >>
> >> front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.
> >
> >That's all good until the CV joint (if it's a CV thats the problem)
> >screams enough and locks up solid, tearing the steering wheel out of
> >your hand and firing you off either into the scenery or the opposing
> >traffic.
>
> good point. Actually, I think it should be possible to remove the whole
of
> one half-shaft and CV assembly and run it like that... I assume the sun
> gears and planet gears stay put in the diff without a half-shaft
present...
> actually, don't know if they do. anyone?
>

Yes they do stay put, all contained within the diff housing but it's not
advisable to run with only one shaft in place.

Martin.

> HBOL predictably uninformative. an ever increasing part of the HBOL is a
> phrase along the lines of "dismantling and overhauling <assembly> is very
> difficult and requires many special tools, you have to measure things and
> shim them, and you can't get the parts, so don't do it." now in some
cases
> this is true, but in others it's a load of bollox.
>
>


 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> In the case of, for example, the gearbox on my sierra, it says all that. Now
> the sierra had 2 very different 5-speed boxes, the early one which is
> basically a 4-speed with an added 5th gear in the tailshaft section and the
> later one (MT75) which is much more complicated to work on. The early one
> is a piece of **** to strip and rebuild, requires just one special tool to
> dislodge one of the bearings, which I made from a thick bit of wire that
> used to be a bucket handle.

Yep - I've had more than a few of the early ones in bits - nothing
complicated there, and even the MT75 isn't exactly difficult to deal with.



--
EMB
 
On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:19:56 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:24:52 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
>> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >Austin Shackles wrote:
>> >> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
>> >> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>> >
>> >>> 1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only transport) -
>I'm
>> >>> guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
>> >>> little as possible)
>> >>
>> >> front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.
>> >
>> >That's all good until the CV joint (if it's a CV thats the problem)
>> >screams enough and locks up solid, tearing the steering wheel out of
>> >your hand and firing you off either into the scenery or the opposing
>> >traffic.
>>
>> good point. Actually, I think it should be possible to remove the whole
>of
>> one half-shaft and CV assembly and run it like that... I assume the sun
>> gears and planet gears stay put in the diff without a half-shaft
>present...
>> actually, don't know if they do. anyone?
>>
>
>Yes they do stay put, all contained within the diff housing but it's not
>advisable to run with only one shaft in place.
>

you could pull both though... not sure of the oil would stay in place
without the shafts there though... although diff and swivels have the same
oil, of course. But if the diff's damaged it could end up with iffy oil in
the swivels.

I'm not talking anything other than emergency get-you-home measures here,
mind.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded property of
a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcane
complexities. Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to
obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.
Today, all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is
available to anyone. - Tom Weller, Science Made Stupid, 1986
 
On or around Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:28:04 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> In the case of, for example, the gearbox on my sierra, it says all that. Now
>> the sierra had 2 very different 5-speed boxes, the early one which is
>> basically a 4-speed with an added 5th gear in the tailshaft section and the
>> later one (MT75) which is much more complicated to work on. The early one
>> is a piece of **** to strip and rebuild, requires just one special tool to
>> dislodge one of the bearings, which I made from a thick bit of wire that
>> used to be a bucket handle.
>
>Yep - I've had more than a few of the early ones in bits - nothing
>complicated there, and even the MT75 isn't exactly difficult to deal with.

Haynes these days are increasingly going this route. They used to have
gearbox dismantling procedures. I reckon they're just getting lazy.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded property of
a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcane
complexities. Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to
obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.
Today, all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is
available to anyone. - Tom Weller, Science Made Stupid, 1986
 
Oily wrote:

>
> "Srtgray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Oily wrote:
>> > "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> >>On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:32:51 +0200, Srtgray
>> >><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Daft question, but is this a "wheel off" job?
>> >>
>> >>yep. actually, technically, I think you can pull the hub with the
>> >>wheel
>> >
>> > on
>> >
>> >>it, but I don't see how it'd help :)
>> >>
>> >
>> > You wouldn't be able to pull the hub and wheel off together without
>> > first removing the brake caliper which itself would be a PITA with the
> wheel
>> > on.
>> >
>> > It would save you a bit of time if you can tell which side is noisy
> and
>> > remove that one first.
>> >
>> > Martin.
>> >
>> >
>> We (SWMBO and I) think it was the left. However, the steering was heavy
>> and trying to "self centre" a bit more than I was used to - almost like
>> running the old SII in four wheel drive on the road. I'm thinking
>> therefore that the diff might be at fault, since also there was nothing
>> when running straight ahead.
>>
>> Stuart
>
> But you wouldn't waste any time or effort by stripping the left C/V out
> first to check because to remove the diff unit you will have to pull the
> halfshafts out anyway.
>
> Martin.

How about dropping the oil out of the diff? I can't see how anything that
drastic, if in the diff, would fail to show some evidence (strange bits of
metal). Also, remove the filler plug and look in with a good torch - that
should enable you to diagnose which side it is; jack the front wheels up,
and turning the one that has a busted CV joint will show no movement in the
diff, where turning the good one will turn the shaft on the bad side via
the diff.
JD
 

> >
> >"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On or around Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:24:52 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
> >> enlightened us thusly:
> >>
> >> >Austin Shackles wrote:
> >> >> On or around Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:57:44 +0200, Srtgray
> >> >> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >> >
> >> >>> 1) what is the safest way to keep mobile (she's my only
transport) -
> >I'm
> >> >>> guessing front prop shaft off and no sudden movements (and drive as
> >> >>> little as possible)
> >> >>
> >> >> front prop off, difflock in and drive sensibly.
> >> >
> >> >That's all good until the CV joint (if it's a CV thats the problem)
> >> >screams enough and locks up solid, tearing the steering wheel out of
> >> >your hand and firing you off either into the scenery or the opposing
> >> >traffic.
> >>
> >> good point. Actually, I think it should be possible to remove the
whole
> >of
> >> one half-shaft and CV assembly and run it like that... I assume the sun
> >> gears and planet gears stay put in the diff without a half-shaft
> >present...
> >> actually, don't know if they do. anyone?
> >>
> >
> >Yes they do stay put, all contained within the diff housing but it's not
> >advisable to run with only one shaft in place.
> >
>
> you could pull both though... not sure of the oil would stay in place
> without the shafts there though... although diff and swivels have the same
> oil, of course. But if the diff's damaged it could end up with iffy oil
in
> the swivels.
>
> I'm not talking anything other than emergency get-you-home measures here,
> mind.
>

It would be quite a job removing both shafts at the side of the road as a
get you home measure. As said earlier, remove front prop, difflock in but I
would also just remove hub drive plates only while you get home and then fix
it.

Martin.


 
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