Broken bolt, anyone with a welder in North Oxfordshire?

Hi everyone,

Was progressing with my Defender project have been replacing the stub axles on both side, one side went off fine which probably gave me too much confident and I ended up applying too much torque to the bolts on the other side, snapping 3 of them.... They all actually unwinded a good 5-10mm before snapping which is new to me as it's always just been the initial crack for me whenever that has happened.

So long story short, I now have three studs sticking out about 5-10mm from the axle. I believe the best option now is to weld a nut to these studs except I haven't got a welder...

Before I go out and buy one which would probably be useful at some point in the future, is there anyone that's reasonably closeby with a welder that would be happy to help for a beer/wine/tea?

Thanks

Gary

fumiyasu said:

Hi everyone,

Was progressing with my Defender project have been replacing the stub axles on both side, one side went off fine which probably gave me too much confident and I ended up applying too much torque to the bolts on the other side, snapping 3 of them.... They all actually unwinded a good 5-10mm before snapping which is new to me as it's always just been the initial crack for me whenever that has happened.

So long story short, I now have three studs sticking out about 5-10mm from the axle. I believe the best option now is to weld a nut to these studs except I haven't got a welder...

Before I go out and buy one which would probably be useful at some point in the future, is there anyone that's reasonably closeby with a welder that would be happy to help for a beer/wine/tea?

Thanks

Gary

Click to expand...

Tell me, why after the first one, did you carry on and do, not one more, but two??!!!
Anyway, whatever.
If you have nuts of the same thread you may possibly be able to get two on and make a locknut.
But more importantly put LOTS of derusting/easing fluid on them, if you can't get two nuts on, file flats on them and use an adjustable or a good Molegrip, then turn them back and forth over and over again, just small movements not being afraid to put them back in then out again. Apply heat if you can without doing any damage.
Failing that, grinder and then drill being very careful, not to damage the female threads. You'll need to chase the threads out with a tap after this.

Actually, it's a Defender project, yes you'll need a welder. Go out and buy one and ignore the rest.
Lesson learned the hard way.

Stanleysteamer said:

Tell me, why after the first one, did you carry on and do, not one more, but two??!!!
Anyway, whatever.
If you have nuts of the same thread you may possibly be able to get two on and make a locknut.
But more importantly put LOTS of derusting/easing fluid on them, if you can't get two nuts on, file flats on them and use an adjustable or a good Molegrip, then turn them back and forth over and over again, just small movements not being afraid to put them back in then out again. Apply heat if you can without doing any damage.
Failing that, grinder and then drill being very careful, not to damage the female threads. You'll need to chase the threads out with a tap after this.

Actually, it's a Defender project, yes you'll need a welder. Go out and buy one and ignore the rest.
Lesson learned the hard way.

Click to expand...

On the first question, what I should have done was stop and came back the next day. But yes I was being an idiot..

Tried doing the lock nut thing this morning but can't quite get the second nut to grip with the first. So I think it's either weld or square it off and then mole grip...

fumiyasu said:

On the first question, what I should have done was stop and came back the next day. But yes I was being an idiot..

Click to expand...

I find the coffee cup is a really important tool in my tool box!
anyway, we've all been there.
so sympathise mate, and best of luck sorting it.

fumiyasu said:

On the first question, what I should have done was stop and came back the next day. But yes I was being an idiot..

Tried doing the lock nut thing this morning but can't quite get the second nut to grip with the first. So I think it's either weld or square it off and then mole grip...

Click to expand...

Rare for the two nut trick to work on old shti, even new stuff it is not much cop, the weld a nut on is the way to go, it is also the heat from the weld that will help it to come free.
Lots of heat on the welder, not on low setting.

lynall said:

Rare for the two nut trick to work on old shti, even new stuff it is not much cop, the weld a nut on is the way to go, it is also the heat from the weld that will help it to come free.
Lots of heat on the welder, not on low setting.

Click to expand...

On my Disco 2 the other day, The wife and I worked together, using a 4 nut lock nut, to remove the long bolt that holds the rear battery securing bar from its nut under the wing. It worked!
It's always worth a try, but yes two nuts wouldn't do it, nor would three. We were lucky that there was room to put 4 on!
Not often the wife holds a spanner!

Yea, it's just the length isn't long enough to get it locking properly. I've done it on the exhaust manifold studs but that had miles of threads and works fine when it's not seized up.

Just really gutted as I probably would have been ok if I took my time... Was originally going to only just do one corner that evening and just wished I had stuck to the plan and not rush the other side..!

Anyway, I have luckily managed to find a mobile welder who lives around the corner from me that's happy to help. So hopefully I can get it removed!

Gary

I am only going to say.
You have a defender "project" and don't own a welder.

Just go get it brought.
Oh and a torque wrench by the sounds of it, might be handy.

J

fumiyasu said:

Yea, it's just the length isn't long enough to get it locking properly. I've done it on the exhaust manifold studs but that had miles of threads and works fine when it's not seized up.

Just really gutted as I probably would have been ok if I took my time... Was originally going to only just do one corner that evening and just wished I had stuck to the plan and not rush the other side..!

Anyway, I have luckily managed to find a mobile welder who lives around the corner from me that's happy to help. So hopefully I can get it removed!

Gary

Click to expand...

Best of luck with it!

marjon said:

I am only going to say.
You have a defender "project" and don't own a welder.

Just go get it brought.
Oh and a torque wrench by the sounds of it, might be handy.

J

Click to expand...

...darn it! should have thought to mention the tork wrench when I told him he ought to buy a welder for that very reason, but it was at the end of a long post and i was feeling tired.

Well when I say project, it's more a gradual renewal project rather than in the sense of a really neglected old thing I am bringing back to life. I've had this for 8 years now but just now wanting to renew some parts and a full inspection of conditions given it's 25 years old.

And I do have a few nice torque wrenches! I have no problem doing things up, it's just the undoing!

Will probably still get a welder myself, apart from it being useful with the landy, I've also had more than one occasion where that would have come in handy. However, given this chap is nearby and works on his Disco, I thought he would be a good contact to have regardless

Ah so you was undoing them.

J

marjon said:

Ah so you was undoing them.

J

Click to expand...

Yep. It was actually a bit strange for me as every time I have had a bolt snapped before was the initial crack but this time around it wasn't. The bolt cracked open fine and I was just undoing it, went out a decent amount before the resistance increased again but at that point I wasn't really paying that much attention and it then just snapped on me. I figured it must have been dragging some rust or something along to the front which was getting caught up.

Sort of wished that they hadn't designed the thread holes on the axle to go straight through. The bolts that did came out was really good condition on the bits before the thread lock, it was just the end bit that was corroded and a closed up hole would have preserved the bolt a lot better imo...

Often if the bolt is tight as you undo it it heats up with the friction which makes it expand and tighten up even more, if it gets tight and hot let it cool, i have undone bolts that were tight and you can hardly pickup the bolt its so hot
a bit of heat applied to the part they go into is normally the trick to freeing up stuff thats tight.

fumiyasu said:

Yep. It was actually a bit strange for me as every time I have had a bolt snapped before was the initial crack but this time around it wasn't. The bolt cracked open fine and I was just undoing it, went out a decent amount before the resistance increased again but at that point I wasn't really paying that much attention and it then just snapped on me. I figured it must have been dragging some rust or something along to the front which was getting caught up.

Sort of wished that they hadn't designed the thread holes on the axle to go straight through. The bolts that did came out was really good condition on the bits before the thread lock, it was just the end bit that was corroded and a closed up hole would have preserved the bolt a lot better imo...

Click to expand...

When they do stick through like those it's always good to wire brush them first to save you dragging the crap back through..

Also, my rule for unmantling old stuff is to slather 50/50 acetone/EP90 all over it at least 24 hours before bothering to lift a finger.

brianp38dse said:

Often if the bolt is tight as you undo it it heats up with the friction which makes it expand and tighten up even more, if it gets tight and hot let it cool, i have undone bolts that were tight and you can hardly pickup the bolt its so hot
a bit of heat applied to the part they go into is normally the trick to freeing up stuff thats tight.

Click to expand...

^^^
For anyone thinking of using stainless steel threaded fastenings this is a particular issue.
Called galling & effectively the two surfaces cold weld themselves together.
Done it - more than once!
Doing them up/undoing them slowly & using a lubricant helps to avoid it.
www.accu.co.uk/p/151-what-is-thread-galling

boguing said:

When they do stick through like those it's always good to wire brush them first to save you dragging the crap back through..

Also, my rule for unmantling old stuff is to slather 50/50 acetone/EP90 all over it at least 24 hours before bothering to lift a finger.

Click to expand...

I do try to soak it with plusgas in general. Is the acetone/ep90 mix generally more aggressive I take it?

fumiyasu said:

I do try to soak it with plusgas in general. Is the acetone/ep90 mix generally more aggressive I take it?

Click to expand...

Acetone/ATF 50/50 is better as it creeps in to joint...

As shippers says, it creeps in - like plusgas - but once the acetone evaporates you're left with thick oil. That's the theory anyway, but it's also a genius excuse for not rushing into anything.

I need to try this next time. I actually have a load of 10 years old old ep oil and atf in the garage which I was going to get rid of but I am guessing they are probably ok for this application.