Brakes and bearings

Brown · Sep 3, 2020

I thought I'd post a few pictures of what I'm up to in the Land Rover. I've said elsewhere that I'm doing the swivel balls and brakes, so in between the showers this morning I made a start. In the immortal words of Mr Haynes 'jack up the car and remove the road wheels'.

I've got the steering linkages off and brake pads out in that picture too. The brake caliper bolts came out straight away. The seals seem to be coming loose so maybe it was a good idea to do this now:

You can see there that rarest and best travelled representative of Solihull wildlife, the brake caliper spider. The door mirror spider tends to get blown off on motorway journeys, but this little fellow snuggles in between the brake and the hub casing and is safe from everything except heavy wading.
The swivel bearings went into the new ball uneventfully - here it is going back together:

And back on the axle:

There's a little slack on the driveshafts and CV joint but I think it can go back in for another round. Mr Britannica restorations on Youtube put one with more slack than mine back in a customer's Land Rover, so it should be alright.

I've now got the problem that others on here have mentioned that when the stub axle is fully tightened something's binding and I don't have the full range of steering movement.The witness marks suggest that the CV cup is fouling the inside of the new ball. I'll have to take it all to bits again and try and grind a bit out. What I really need for this job is a die grinder but all I have to hand is a little dremel-y thingy. I'll see how much metal I can shift with it. I'm having a break just now and lunching on samosas but I'll go out and have another go shortly.

mick 1986 · Sep 3, 2020

Brown said:
I thought I'd post a few pictures of what I'm up to in the Land Rover. I've said elsewhere that I'm doing the swivel balls and brakes, so in between the showers this morning I made a start. In the immortal words of Mr Haynes 'jack up the car and remove the road wheels'.
View attachment 218418
I've got the steering linkages off and brake pads out in that picture too. The brake caliper bolts came out straight away. The seals seem to be coming loose so maybe it was a good idea to do this now:
View attachment 218419
You can see there that rarest and best travelled representative of Solihull wildlife, the brake caliper spider. The door mirror spider tends to get blown off on motorway journeys, but this little fellow snuggles in between the brake and the hub casing and is safe from everything except heavy wading.
The swivel bearings went into the new ball uneventfully - here it is going back together:
View attachment 218420 And back on the axle:
View attachment 218421 There's a little slack on the driveshafts and CV joint but I think it can go back in for another round. Mr Britannica restorations on Youtube put one with more slack than mine back in a customer's Land Rover, so it should be alright.

I've now got the problem that others on here have mentioned that when the stub axle is fully tightened something's binding and I don't have the full range of steering movement.The witness marks suggest that the CV cup is fouling the inside of the new ball. I'll have to take it all to bits again and try and grind a bit out. What I really need for this job is a die grinder but all I have to hand is a little dremel-y thingy. I'll see how much metal I can shift with it. I'm having a break just now and lunching on samosas but I'll go out and have another go shortly.

I replaced a swivel ball last week. When tightening the bolts up, the driveshaft wouldn’t turn and the steering wouldn’t travel the full distance. I loosened the stub axle bolts around one turn, and pulled the driveshaft as hard as I could, I figured that something must have bound and pushed, and hoped it freed off. It did, and after nipping the bolts back up, all was well.

Flossie · Sep 3, 2020

I like your pet tortoise.
What's his name?

Flossie · Sep 3, 2020

Or she?

Flossie · Sep 3, 2020

On a serious note

Did you fit the caliper rings yourself and were they britpart?
My rears did that(britpart) replaced with genuine and they were much better quality.
I'm also going to rebuild my axle this winter with new balls, bearings, seals etc as mine are leaking due to corrosion on the chrome but they've lasted well really, I think they are the factory fitted ones so 35 yrs old.
Was going to get the teflon ones, what did you use?

Brown · Sep 3, 2020

I've had a go at the inside of the swivel ball with the little Dremel tool (well it says 'Draper' on it, but it is the same kind of thing) and it gamley scratches the surface but isn't up to much as a stock removal tool. I've ordered an electric die grinder and some burrs and will have another go when that comes.

In the meantime I took the other side to pieces:

Once the steering linkages were disconnected, it became clear that this swivel was distinctly notchy. Sure enough the bearing races were indented:

So once again it is a good idea to do this. Last time I did this in 2014 it made the handling much better, much less vague and floaty feeling on the motorway. So I'm hoping for an improvement this time too.

In other news it doesn't look like the calipers will do another round. The one I've had apart has rust in the bores. So I might as well get new ones as they're readily available and reasonably priced.

Brown · Sep 3, 2020

mick 1986 said:
I replaced a swivel ball last week. When tightening the bolts up, the driveshaft wouldn’t turn and the steering wouldn’t travel the full distance. I loosened the stub axle bolts around one turn, and pulled the driveshaft as hard as I could, I figured that something must have bound and pushed, and hoped it freed off. It did, and after nipping the bolts back up, all was well.

Yes, I tried rattling it around in various ways, to see whether it was fully seated in the diff, and whether the outboard section of the drive shaft was fully seated in the stub axle - there's a roller bearing and seal to be negotiated so it could get hung up. I even took the stub axle off and tried it in different positions in case those scallops in the bronze bush need to be in a particular position but that didn't make any difference. I've definitely got too much meat on the interior of the housing.

Flossie said:
On a serious note
Did you fit the caliper rings yourself and were they britpart?
My rears did that(britpart) replaced with genuine and they were much better quality.
I'm also going to rebuild my axle this winter with new balls, bearings, seals etc as mine are leaking due to corrosion on the chrome but they've lasted well really, I think they are the factory fitted ones so 35 yrs old.
Was going to get the teflon ones, what did you use?

Last time I did this, at Easter 2013, I re-used the original calipers and changed the rubbers and pistons. I think they've got AP embossed on them. I was hoping to be able to do the same this time but as in the post above I've discovered rust in the bores this time so will be looking for new ones. If I was restoring a classic car you can't get parts for it might be worth thinking about machining a few thou out in the hope of getting a better surface for the seal to mate with, but with Land Rovers the parts availability is so good it makes me lazy.

Needless to say the brake line nuts were all seized onto the pipes so they got twisted in the process of releasing them. So one thing I will be making is brake lines. Must get a roll of pipe too.

Brown · Sep 3, 2020

Oh, and the swivel balls were these ones, from LR Drirect
https://www.lrdirect.com/FRC7065-Swivel-Hsg-Ball-Rr-85On-Ds/?keep_https=yes

Ratae · Sep 3, 2020

Don't know if this would be applicable to yours but did you check that the new swivel ball was identical to the old one in all respects?
I had a binding issue when I replaced one swivel ball on my non-abs 1986 RRC a couple of years ago with the Teflon coated one FRC7065. When all was done up the drive shaft wouldn't turn.
I did a write up here:
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/chrome-balls.332018/
As I managed to get the correct one I don't know the alternative answer but I would think it will involve some part changes or machining the recess into the new ball.

ETA Pic of inside of old ball showing recess:

Galladog · Sep 3, 2020

I had a similar problem with the hub binding once the stub axle bolts were tightened.
I had bought a refurb kit from Paddocks including the top and bottom swivel bearings, in the end I went to the Land Rover main dealer and bought genuine swivel pin bearings and it all fitted together perfectly, no binding.
I can only presume that the pattern parts were slightly too big.

Brown · Sep 4, 2020

The new swivel balls are not identical - the older ones have thinner walls. The critical issue is that bit on the lower inside of the ball just inboard of the lower roller bearing race where the machining needs to go a tiny bit deeper. That's where my witness marks were. So I'm just going to grind myself a bit more clearance. Given that a number of people on here have had this problem, if I buy some more there's every chance they'll have the same issue. I think there's a whole batch of them floating around the major suppliers. I got a bit more free movement as a result of my efforts with the Dremel yesterday, but those miniature burrs and grinding wheels take ages to remove material and don't last very long. I'm just awaiting a die grinder so I can make a bit more headway.

Flossie · Sep 4, 2020

Wonder if my air file would get in there?
They are like a belt sander, belts 10mm wide. I'll post a pic up when I can find it.

Brown · Sep 4, 2020

Flossie said:
Wonder if my air file would get in there?
They are like a belt sander, belts 10mm wide. I'll post a pic up when I can find it.

Yes, it would probably do so. It might need a firm and steady hand as it'll be a bit like trying to carve with the nose of a chainsaw!

Flossie · Sep 4, 2020

13mm wide.

Brown · Sep 4, 2020

That reddish-brown coloured abrasive paper can shift a lot of metal. I sharpen my tools with a disc of that stuff on the angle grinder. It's probably not so good for chisels, but sickles, slashers and splitting axes come up a treat.

Brown · Sep 5, 2020

The die grinder turned up this evening and I had a go at one of the new swivel balls with it. Just the job. It didn't take me too long to relieve a good deal of metal

I've pushed back the machining on the bottom of the ball inboard of the bearing socket as I believe this is what's fouling. If the manufacturers had just pushed the cutter another quarter inch into the ball it would have been fine. I won't start reassembling tonight because it's nearly dinner time but I'll give it a try tomorrow.

What a difference the correct tool makes. What would have taken all day with the Dremel (or, perish the thought, by hand) is just a few minutes fettling with the die grinder.

Brown · Sep 6, 2020

Once it was late enough not to be too antisocial I started grinding on the ball that I fitted to the Land Rover on Thursday. It took a few iterations, putting the CV joint back in and tightening the stub axle, until I got it right. The grease on the CV joint left marks where it had been touching, so I could see what to cut away. Eventually I was left with a shape like this:

It needs another wipe out before reassembly. Those little metal flakes are very sharp and get in your skin like tiny splinters. Then I machined out the one that was still in the shed to a similar shape and got it right first time. It's so great to get things back together at last.

With the drive flanges back on, that's about as far as I can go until the rest of the brake components get here. They've been posted, so I hope they will show up on Monday or Tuesday.

Brown · Sep 7, 2020

The brake bits have started arriving. I've got some new calipers:

These seem to be a bit more spacious than the previous set. It was always a struggle to get new pads in the old ones, no matter how hard I squeezed the pistons back in, but this particular combination just fits nicely. The only awkward feature will be when I come to bleed them as the bleed nipple is exactly on the same level as the bracket that holds the brake pipe on top of the swivel. It's started raining now so I've come in for a late lunch.

A very tame bird came to keep me company:

Who should come over the wall but our cat, who immediately adopted a pose like a leopard hunting game in a wildlife documentary. Fortunately I was able to chase the bird away just in time, but it didn't want to go and made that blackbird-style scolding noise as it fluttered off. The cat then excavated a little hole in the fallen leaves and disembogued.

Brown · Sep 7, 2020

It stopped raining so I did a bit more this afternoon. I did the back axle. Here's one coming to pieces:

Looks like the seal was just about going. The grease has spread out across the flange of the stub axle but gone no further. The rest of the spatter is brake fluid, because, needless to say, the pipe had welded itself inside the compression nut so twisted off as I undid the nut. All new bearings and a new seal tapped into place, so once again there's a satisfying sense of having done a job at just about the right time.

Old brake disc and new brake disc:

The pattern of grooves has nearly worn off and it is also suffering from that phenomenon you get with elderly brake discs where the shiny swept area gets narrower and narrower and the deep crusty rust encroaches from the hub and the outer edge. So once again, worth doing something about. It seems such a short time ago that they were all brand new and shiny, but in fact that was 7 1/2 years or 90,000 miles so I can't really complain. That was the driver's side, so let's have a go at the passenger's side:

That didn't take long. The new caliper is looking nice and shiny. The split pins holding the pads in have rather long legs - maybe I should try and trim them off a bit. I'm trying LOF Powerspec pads for a change, having been through a few sets of EBCs.

I have a few brake pipes to make up, and I need one more flexible hose which I'm still waiting for. I made one of the rear axle ones just now, but I have another to make for the passenger side and a couple of passenger side front ones to do. I suppose I could just trim the broken ends off and fit a connector, but I'd rather use one long length of pipe if I can, with as few connectors as possible.
I can see now why so many people just fit new calipers rather than mess about changing the seals. It makes a brake overhaul so quick and easy. I have spent so many hours over the first half century of my life messing about with little rubber rings, so by comparison today has been quite a breeze.

Brown · Sep 10, 2020

I came home last night to discover my flexible pipe had been delivered, so I was able to pop out while it was still light and make the terminations on the metal pipes so the braking system is now complete:

Now let's blow a bit of fluid through with the pressure bleeder and see if we can firm the pedal up a bit:

That was the easiest bleeding session I've ever had on the Land Rover. The bubbles came out in an orderly fashion straight away and the brakes work. At least they do trundling up and down the yard. It needs a road test and maybe another bleed when it has had a chance to settle.

I was going to take it out this morning but on attempting to start it was very rough and smoky. I did a fuel purge and it started and ran nicely. Good, problem solved. No, apparently not - I opened the gates and then started it again and it was rough and clattery and seemed to be running on one or two cylinders. The Nanocom tells me I have peak charge errors on all cylinders, which in the past has been a sign of the injector loom deteriorating. I'll try a new injector loom as it's only around £30 for a supposedly OEM one. There's no oil visible yet at the multiplugs, but it might have started deteriorating inside. I also took off and cleaned the crank position sensor, which had got a bit oily over the year or so since I last cleaned it and there was a flake of rust stuck to the sensor tip. Put it back in and the problem was still apparent, so I don't think that was the culprit.

No rest for the wicked.

Brakes and bearings

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