Brake shoes

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R

Richard Brookman

Guest
Just fitted a new set of shoes to the S2a and did about 40 miles trying to
get a hard pedal (now replacing master and slave cylinders, long story).
When I took the rear drums off to replace the wheel cylinders, two of the
shoes had parted company from the linings. Richard (Beamends) has been good
as gold and replaced them, but it's a bit of a worry. Britpart, 10" drums,
40 miles since fitting.

Anyone else had this happen, or can think of anything I might have done
wrong when fitting them? (All fitted as per the book, shoes parallel as
drums went on, no bodges, all pivots and springs correctly located when the
drums came off, done it before a hundred times, etc etc.)

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and
those who don't.



 
On or around Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:12:18 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Just fitted a new set of shoes to the S2a and did about 40 miles trying to
>get a hard pedal (now replacing master and slave cylinders, long story).
>When I took the rear drums off to replace the wheel cylinders, two of the
>shoes had parted company from the linings. Richard (Beamends) has been good
>as gold and replaced them, but it's a bit of a worry. Britpart, 10" drums,
>40 miles since fitting.
>
>Anyone else had this happen, or can think of anything I might have done
>wrong when fitting them? (All fitted as per the book, shoes parallel as
>drums went on, no bodges, all pivots and springs correctly located when the
>drums came off, done it before a hundred times, etc etc.)

Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one bit of
the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest available. Ferodo or
Lockheed or other branded and well-known parts. Cheap ones, IME, neither
work nor last as well as the good ones. Although sometimes it's tricky
knowing which of the "good" ones are best.

EBC green pads on the minibus now - the only thing I have against them is
that they're if anything more pathetic than standard ones when cold and wet.
Once you get 'em warm and dry they're good, and the braking performance
seems to increase the hotter they get...

Meanwhile, the rear drums snatch like a starving dog offered a bonio when
cold and wet, to the extant of locking all 4 back wheels under light pedal
pressure, but once they've been used they settle down. Only an issue in wet
weather - when it's dry they work normally.

I noticed a slight snatch on the SIII the other day (which has been standing
around for a week or so).
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:12:18 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Just fitted a new set of shoes to the S2a and did about 40 miles trying
to
> >get a hard pedal (now replacing master and slave cylinders, long story).
> >When I took the rear drums off to replace the wheel cylinders, two of the
> >shoes had parted company from the linings. Richard (Beamends) has been
good
> >as gold and replaced them, but it's a bit of a worry. Britpart, 10"
drums,
> >40 miles since fitting.
> >
> >Anyone else had this happen, or can think of anything I might have done
> >wrong when fitting them? (All fitted as per the book, shoes parallel as
> >drums went on, no bodges, all pivots and springs correctly located when
the
> >drums came off, done it before a hundred times, etc etc.)

Maybe had them adjusted up to tight trying to bed them in? Though I would
have thought they should stand getting hot. Inferior lining adhesive on
cheap shoes?
>
> Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one bit of
> the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest available. Ferodo
or
> Lockheed or other branded and well-known parts. Cheap ones, IME, neither
> work nor last as well as the good ones. Although sometimes it's tricky
> knowing which of the "good" ones are best.
>
> EBC green pads on the minibus now - the only thing I have against them is
> that they're if anything more pathetic than standard ones when cold and
wet.
> Once you get 'em warm and dry they're good, and the braking performance
> seems to increase the hotter they get...
>
> Meanwhile, the rear drums snatch like a starving dog offered a bonio when
> cold and wet, to the extant of locking all 4 back wheels under light pedal
> pressure, but once they've been used they settle down. Only an issue in
wet
> weather - when it's dry they work normally.
>
> I noticed a slight snatch on the SIII the other day (which has been
standing
> around for a week or so).
>

As Austin says, only buy decent branded ones.

Martin.


 
Richard Brookman wrote:

> Just fitted a new set of shoes to the S2a and did about 40 miles trying to
> get a hard pedal (now replacing master and slave cylinders, long story).
> When I took the rear drums off to replace the wheel cylinders, two of the
> shoes had parted company from the linings. Richard (Beamends) has been
> good
> as gold and replaced them, but it's a bit of a worry. Britpart, 10"
> drums, 40 miles since fitting.
>
> Anyone else had this happen, or can think of anything I might have done
> wrong when fitting them? (All fitted as per the book, shoes parallel as
> drums went on, no bodges, all pivots and springs correctly located when
> the drums came off, done it before a hundred times, etc etc.)
>

Nothing you did could result in the linings coming loose if they were bonded
properly. I have never even heard of this happening before.
JD
 
....and Oily spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> Maybe had them adjusted up to tight trying to bed them in? Though I
> would have thought they should stand getting hot.

I wondered that, too. But if a bit of heat does that to the linings, how
would they fare coming down a mountain pass? I don't recall anything in the
LR literature (or any vehicle literature) that states that one should take
care not to get the linings too hot, or the brakes might fall apart!

> Inferior lining adhesive on cheap shoes?

That's my guess, although they weren't exactly cheap. And Britpart is a
well-recognised seller of this kind of stuff. It's not as if I went to Cost
Cutter or anything. :)

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one
> bit of the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest
> available.

Me too. I thought Britpart were well enough known.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
....and JD spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>> Just fitted a new set of shoes to the S2a and did about 40 miles
>> trying to get a hard pedal (now replacing master and slave
>> cylinders, long story). When I took the rear drums off to replace
>> the wheel cylinders, two of the shoes had parted company from the
>> linings.

> Nothing you did could result in the linings coming loose if they were
> bonded properly. I have never even heard of this happening before.
> JD

Thanks for that reassurance! I've not heard of it either.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>
> > Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one
> > bit of the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest
> > available.
>
> Me too. I thought Britpart were well enough known.
>

I have to say this is the first time I've come accross this with
Britpart shoes, they may not be the longest lasting compared
to Mintex etc but they do work. There's no way the lining should
come adrift under any circumstances and I'll be taking this up
with them so they are aware of it.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:19:04 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>...and JD spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>
>> Richard Brookman wrote:
>>
>>> Just fitted a new set of shoes to the S2a and did about 40 miles
>>> trying to get a hard pedal (now replacing master and slave
>>> cylinders, long story). When I took the rear drums off to replace
>>> the wheel cylinders, two of the shoes had parted company from the
>>> linings.
>
>> Nothing you did could result in the linings coming loose if they were
>> bonded properly. I have never even heard of this happening before.
>> JD
>
>Thanks for that reassurance! I've not heard of it either.

I've seen it on drum brake linings but mostly only when well-worn. I've
also had partial separation of disc pads on average-quality ones that have
had the sort of use that probably overheats 'em.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10
 
....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one
> bit of the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest
> available. Ferodo or Lockheed or other branded and well-known parts.
> Cheap ones, IME, neither work nor last as well as the good ones.
> Although sometimes it's tricky knowing which of the "good" ones are
> best.

Packing them up to send to Richard, I noticed they were branded Lucas shoes.
Weren't they fitted as OE?


--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
> > Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one
> > bit of the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest
> > available. Ferodo or Lockheed or other branded and well-known parts.
> > Cheap ones, IME, neither work nor last as well as the good ones.
> > Although sometimes it's tricky knowing which of the "good" ones are
> > best.
>
> Packing them up to send to Richard, I noticed they were branded Lucas
shoes.
> Weren't they fitted as OE?
>

Not as I remember, Mintex with 22FF stamped riveted linings. But 30 years
ago you could buy 2 axle sets of Mintex bonded shoes for £5.50 each and they
were crap. I think they must have been inferior material and farmed out the
relining jobs to someone who didn't give a ****; distorted shoes, broken
adjuster pins etc., that was in the days when they surcharged you for the
shoes if you didn't return the old ones, no good at all.
I used to buy sets of original spec linings with rivets to reline the shoes
that came off and one axle set cost £17.50, but the brakes were perfect, and
no bedding in either! Customers would pay the extra and actually ask for
these!
Most of the shoes you buy today are worn out by the time they bed in, you
get what you pay for, buy genuine parts!

Martin.


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
> >
> > > Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one
> > > bit of the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest
> > > available. Ferodo or Lockheed or other branded and well-known parts.
> > > Cheap ones, IME, neither work nor last as well as the good ones.
> > > Although sometimes it's tricky knowing which of the "good" ones are
> > > best.
> >
> > Packing them up to send to Richard, I noticed they were branded Lucas
> shoes.
> > Weren't they fitted as OE?
> >
>
> Not as I remember, Mintex with 22FF stamped riveted linings. But 30 years
> ago you could buy 2 axle sets of Mintex bonded shoes for £5.50 each and they
> were crap. I think they must have been inferior material and farmed out the
> relining jobs to someone who didn't give a ****; distorted shoes, broken
> adjuster pins etc., that was in the days when they surcharged you for the
> shoes if you didn't return the old ones, no good at all.
> I used to buy sets of original spec linings with rivets to reline the shoes
> that came off and one axle set cost £17.50, but the brakes were perfect, and
> no bedding in either! Customers would pay the extra and actually ask for
> these!
> Most of the shoes you buy today are worn out by the time they bed in, you
> get what you pay for, buy genuine parts!
>
> Martin.
>
>

I'm pretty sure Lucas were OE supplier for a number if years, they
may still be under the TRW/Lucas brand.

I agree with Martin that brake shoe's 'ain't what they used to be, but
the big differenve between 30 years ago and now is that asbestos has
been effectively banned.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c6c442114e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
> > >
> > > > Have to say that brake friction parts (shoes and pads) are the one
> > > > bit of the motor that I don't compromise and buy the cheapest
> > > > available. Ferodo or Lockheed or other branded and well-known
parts.
> > > > Cheap ones, IME, neither work nor last as well as the good ones.
> > > > Although sometimes it's tricky knowing which of the "good" ones are
> > > > best.
> > >
> > > Packing them up to send to Richard, I noticed they were branded Lucas
> > shoes.
> > > Weren't they fitted as OE?
> > >
> >
> > Not as I remember, Mintex with 22FF stamped riveted linings. But 30
years
> > ago you could buy 2 axle sets of Mintex bonded shoes for £5.50 each and
they
> > were crap. I think they must have been inferior material and farmed out
the
> > relining jobs to someone who didn't give a ****; distorted shoes, broken
> > adjuster pins etc., that was in the days when they surcharged you for
the
> > shoes if you didn't return the old ones, no good at all.
> > I used to buy sets of original spec linings with rivets to reline the
shoes
> > that came off and one axle set cost £17.50, but the brakes were perfect,
and
> > no bedding in either! Customers would pay the extra and actually ask for
> > these!
> > Most of the shoes you buy today are worn out by the time they bed in,
you
> > get what you pay for, buy genuine parts!
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> >
>
> I'm pretty sure Lucas were OE supplier for a number if years, they
> may still be under the TRW/Lucas brand.
>
> I agree with Martin that brake shoe's 'ain't what they used to be, but
> the big differenve between 30 years ago and now is that asbestos has
> been effectively banned.
>
> Richard
>

I would imagine Girling ( Lucas Girling or just Lucas as I think it is now)
would supply the linings for their own braking systems originally (seeing as
they supplied the braking systems in the first place) and if you can't sell
Lucas shoes without the linings falling off then where *can* you buy decent
parts?
I have relined brakes that have had Mintex linings on from new but these
were probably the first Series 3s and they were exceptionally good but I
have sold and used lots of Lucas branded ones more recently as well and not
had any trouble. I have to agree with Richard when he implies that non
asbestos shoes are not as good. Maybe the glue on bonded shoes is also
inferior because of omitting some non environmentally friendly ingredient
which may not be up to the job. The new non asbestos pads certainly seem
very hard, definitely not as efficient until hot and also wear out the discs
and drums very quickly, possibly a disc or drum to two sets of pads or
linings. Such is progress.

Martin


 
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