So I'm already looking at £400-600 just for that even before I get anything done to fix the head. Plus I need some welding doing, and a pair of new tyres... This could easily leave me without a car at all; I'm gonna run out of credit cards to pay for any of it.
Disco 2 Blowing exhaust manifold, again. Probably need new cylinder head; what am I looking at?
- Thread starter Naf623
- Start date
This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
So I'm already looking at £400-600 just for that even before I get anything done to fix the head. Plus I need some welding doing, and a pair of new tyres... This could easily leave me without a car at all; I'm gonna run out of credit cards to pay for any of it.
raywin
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 3,808
- Location
- North Yorkshire
I am sorry to hear that, just a sugestion but why not do the manifold and put a gasket on it and see if you can buy the time to get better prepaired?
Also what about the garage who cocked up the drilling out of the first stud, maybe they should offer some support.
I'd still be missing one bolt altogether, so it's never going to seal until I can do something about the holes.
As to the garage, they did the best they could with what it was at the time. They said they believed this should hold, but if it didn't then I'd need a new head.
- Posts
- 41,247
- Location
- East Dorset
Absolutely agree, there is always a way around these things, your solution seems neat although the "mess" at the bottom of the hole may make it not absolutely straightforward, especially if there is hardened steel down there.
- Posts
- 41,247
- Location
- East Dorset
The "tested" issue probably just means that it has been screwed down to a flat plate and has sustained pressure with all the valves closed, which, OK, is not a bad thing but it looks to me as if you have a job on with one of the stud holes on No 4 port, might just be the photo.
Have you specifically asked the seller about the exhaust studs? eBay are a bit tougher now on misrepresentation.
- Posts
- 41,247
- Location
- East Dorset
The issue of taking the head off yourself. I remember the first time I did it, twas a heart stopping moment, but a lot of us go on and do it and most of us get through it safe and sound. Do you have a workspace under cover? Like a garage or a barn? Or a gazebo? Do you have a way of suspending the head e.g. an engine crane or a winch and a beam or something to hang it from? Have a read of your Haynes manual and also see if you can join a Landy Owners club locally, then maybe you can get some help from willing volunteers. Free labour and knowhow, a bunch of likeminded geezers who will supply you with an extension to your social life and maybe even help you get the head to and from engineers, what's not to like?e.g. http://www.ylroc.co.uk/ or the Discovery Owners club
https://www.discoveryownersclub.org/phpBB3/ who have a monthly meeting in Leeds, which is a bit away, I know.
You could even post a thread on this forum for help in the York area, I am sure I remember a member from there posting on something. Just had a quick search and there are a few members, some of them a while back granted, who hail from the York area. So it really may well be worth posting for help.
Taking a head off is not rocket science, it's a lot easier than getting a gear box off for instance!
https://www.discoveryownersclub.org/phpBB3/ who have a monthly meeting in Leeds, which is a bit away, I know.
You could even post a thread on this forum for help in the York area, I am sure I remember a member from there posting on something. Just had a quick search and there are a few members, some of them a while back granted, who hail from the York area. So it really may well be worth posting for help.
Taking a head off is not rocket science, it's a lot easier than getting a gear box off for instance!
Si Click
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,503
- Location
- Lincolnshire
If you need a temporary fix I would helicoil the second hole - the one with the bolt and put a stud in there or even replace the bolt. With a decent thread it should hold for quite a while.
Helicoil kits are fairly cheap (£20 or so) and the process seems straightforward. I have decided to let a professional do mine because I will b*gger the head if I get it wrong and with no experience of seeing or doing it the risk is not worth it. But if you have already decided that the head needs changing you have nothing to lose by giving it a go.
Helicoil kits are fairly cheap (£20 or so) and the process seems straightforward. I have decided to let a professional do mine because I will b*gger the head if I get it wrong and with no experience of seeing or doing it the risk is not worth it. But if you have already decided that the head needs changing you have nothing to lose by giving it a go.
I'm more wary of that than I am of getting a replacement cylinder head tbh. No way to know what I'm getting, running the risk of things that I already had to get done on this one (like the turbo) going again. Not to mention all the other bits that I've done to this that I don't have the time to even strip out before selling, let alone put back into another.
My brother-in-law has offered his Ford Focus to us for nothing; but it's not as big as we could do with (five of us and we go camping), and even taking it just until I can get this fixed means affording two lots of tax and insurance, since I have nowhere off the road I could keep my disco.
I can hardly decide which way to turn right now.
- Posts
- 41,247
- Location
- East Dorset
Anyone dare mention a bodge or two? (Let's call it unconventional repair or bush-mechanicking.)
I have used helicoils, they often work but sometimes they don't and he'd either have to put in a helicoil that fits the thread of the hole as it is which might not grip, or he'd have to drill and tap wider and he as already mentioned the problem with that. When a helicoil doesn't grip, everytime you try to take the bolt out, or in this case a stud, the helicoil comes with it. And when this happened to me it wasn't me who put the helicoil in, it was a garage. So although a recognised workaround, i wouldn't recommend this for this particular case.
So, here is a plan. As has been said by both me and at least one orher poster, get the manif skimmed,the webs cut and drill out the bolt holes as described before, that'll make a huge difference and take the strain off all studs, nuts and the bolt, then wrap ally tinfoil around the bolt that is not gripping and keep doing it until it grips. (TOLD you this was a bodge), but this is putting ally with ally, AND you can take the bolt out again whenever you want. No need for further drilling.
Then drive around with it like this until you've saved up some dosh and figured out a plan.
(It might even be cheaper and easier to get a secondhand engine from a LR breaker and put it in. Might be cheaper cos the labour would probably be less.)
An alternative might be to use Kwikweld or another type of adhesive, but you would HAVE to replace the dodgy bolt with a stud, clean out the hole coat the stud with this stuff, screw it in place with locknuts and leave it a good long time, then screw the manif to it. If a more permanent fix was later required then.... you'd be at least back where you started. By the way, this stuff is good. I was forced to use this about 6 months ago on one of the fixings that you put the bolt through to hold the autobox sump on. A very thin layer held the two broken pieces together perfectly and they have held ever since. (Couldn't get new ones and was in a hurry just before leaving for France for 6 months.) Just follow the instructions to the letter. It does in fact state you can drill it and tap it, so you might want to do that instead.
Comments will probably flow now cos I don't usually suggest a bodge.
"The bodging shop is now closed".
I have used helicoils, they often work but sometimes they don't and he'd either have to put in a helicoil that fits the thread of the hole as it is which might not grip, or he'd have to drill and tap wider and he as already mentioned the problem with that. When a helicoil doesn't grip, everytime you try to take the bolt out, or in this case a stud, the helicoil comes with it. And when this happened to me it wasn't me who put the helicoil in, it was a garage. So although a recognised workaround, i wouldn't recommend this for this particular case.
So, here is a plan. As has been said by both me and at least one orher poster, get the manif skimmed,the webs cut and drill out the bolt holes as described before, that'll make a huge difference and take the strain off all studs, nuts and the bolt, then wrap ally tinfoil around the bolt that is not gripping and keep doing it until it grips. (TOLD you this was a bodge), but this is putting ally with ally, AND you can take the bolt out again whenever you want. No need for further drilling.
Then drive around with it like this until you've saved up some dosh and figured out a plan.
(It might even be cheaper and easier to get a secondhand engine from a LR breaker and put it in. Might be cheaper cos the labour would probably be less.)
An alternative might be to use Kwikweld or another type of adhesive, but you would HAVE to replace the dodgy bolt with a stud, clean out the hole coat the stud with this stuff, screw it in place with locknuts and leave it a good long time, then screw the manif to it. If a more permanent fix was later required then.... you'd be at least back where you started. By the way, this stuff is good. I was forced to use this about 6 months ago on one of the fixings that you put the bolt through to hold the autobox sump on. A very thin layer held the two broken pieces together perfectly and they have held ever since. (Couldn't get new ones and was in a hurry just before leaving for France for 6 months.) Just follow the instructions to the letter. It does in fact state you can drill it and tap it, so you might want to do that instead.
Comments will probably flow now cos I don't usually suggest a bodge.
"The bodging shop is now closed".
Si Click
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,503
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Well mine is successfully done, a Wurth stud fitted and I can fit the skimmed manifold. Perryn from Thread Doctor was excellent and carried out a solid repair using a Recoil product. If I had not tried to drill it out myself and hardened the stud he was pretty convinced he could have extracted it and preserved the original thread. If you have a snapped stud in the south of England and don't have the tools or skill to sort the repair yourself I can recommend them.
https://threaddoctorservicesltd.co.uk/index.php
I have learnt two things;
A. Once a drill bit stops biting and starts polishing the stud metal it becomes really, really hard to drill it out - even for the professionals.
B. If I snap a stud in future I will not try to fix it but will call Perryn.
https://threaddoctorservicesltd.co.uk/index.php
I have learnt two things;
A. Once a drill bit stops biting and starts polishing the stud metal it becomes really, really hard to drill it out - even for the professionals.
B. If I snap a stud in future I will not try to fix it but will call Perryn.
Si Click
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,503
- Location
- Lincolnshire
He charged me for 3 hours which included his drive either way from Hampshire. With a total cost of £150 I thought his hourly rate was very reasonable indeed.
- Posts
- 41,247
- Location
- East Dorset
This must be work hardening, happens all the bliddy time drilling stainless, if your drill bit isn't flipping razor sharp, hate that! Trouble is, by the time you've worked out you've done it, it is usually too late.
Anyway, well done thread doctor, shame they cannot be found all over the UK. You must be chuffed! So, one down, one to go!
Si Click
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,503
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Loads of room actually once you remove all of the hoses in the way. He initially tried a small bit which he repeatedly sharpened, and what he called an Irwin (I assume a stud extractor). This did not go well and the Irwin broke. At this point I was thinking this was going to get expensive as the Irwin apparently cost £120, but he took the view that he should not have used it straight off and absorbed the cost. He then used a succession of frequently sharpened bits to drill out the remainder, finally using an 8mm bit which seemed to get it all. He drilled out to 10.8 mm, tapped the thread and inserted the Recoil, making very sure that it was completely secure. The Recoil worked identically to a Helicoil but was more robust and sleeve-like. Apart from the hardness of the stud - far harder than normal he thought, the biggest problem was that with my bodging it was only just clear where the original hole had been. There was just enough of the original left to work out the right position. Nonetheless it was a relief when we put the new manifold on and it fitted correctly.
- Posts
- 41,247
- Location
- East Dorset
The problem with working out exactly where the centre of the original hole was, was exactly the reason why I started off with the biggest bit that would fit in the hole, I obviously didn't want to remove the threads,at least not at that point so I went in extremely carefully using the inner diameter of the hole to guide the bit so that when the tip touched the broken stud at the bottom, the centre of the tip marked the centre of what would become the place to drill, to clear the rest out. So I just touched it enough to make a tiny dip which I then used to guide the other bits as your chap did, but instead of putting in a Recoil or a helicoil, I just drilled and threaded the new hole and used an oversized bolt. As you implied, Recoils look tougher and better than Helicoils. And for anyone else looking at this thread, I used loads of lubricant to make sure the heat of the drilling didn't work-harden the "workpiece" in the hole. I have been "once bitten" by stainless so take possibly excessive precautions to avoid it happening again.
Si Click
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,503
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Thought I'd give you a shot of the final job and of where I got to 10 mins ago before rain stopped play.
