Bit of advice please...

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S

Stuart

Guest
I have a 1.5 ton mini-digger that I would like to transport very
occasionally. I have a Nissan Cabstar 3 litre turbo pick-up truck that I
was going to use for towing it, but have been told by a friend that I would
be better off legally to use my 2 litre diesel Freelander.
From what I can gather from googling, the most I can tow with the Freelander
is about 1.25 ton. Is this correct? It doesnt seem a lot compared to other
(lesser?) vehicles.


 
On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:15:15 +0100, "Stuart"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I have a 1.5 ton mini-digger that I would like to transport very
>occasionally. I have a Nissan Cabstar 3 litre turbo pick-up truck that I
>was going to use for towing it, but have been told by a friend that I would
>be better off legally to use my 2 litre diesel Freelander.
>From what I can gather from googling, the most I can tow with the Freelander
>is about 1.25 ton. Is this correct? It doesnt seem a lot compared to other
>(lesser?) vehicles.
>


I can sell you a nice trailer which would suit it...

meanwhile... look at the gross train weight on the vehicle plate. Should
tell you what it's supposed to be able to tow. I'm not sure that it's
legally binding, mind. I doubt you'd be better off with the freeloader,
meself. Your digger plus trailer is gonna come in at at least 2 tons.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
remember this discussion from some time ago, if you want to tow the full 4
tons you need air brakes as per artics, then you get replated, or sommat
like that.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:15:15 +0100, "Stuart"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> I can sell you a nice trailer which would suit it...
>
> meanwhile... look at the gross train weight on the vehicle plate. Should
> tell you what it's supposed to be able to tow. I'm not sure that it's
> legally binding, mind. I doubt you'd be better off with the freeloader,
> meself. Your digger plus trailer is gonna come in at at least 2 tons.
>
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> "Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
> Boswell's "Johnson".



 
On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Austin Shackles" wrote:

> On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:15:15 +0100, "Stuart"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >I have a 1.5 ton mini-digger that I would like to transport very
> >occasionally. I have a Nissan Cabstar 3 litre turbo pick-up truck that I
> >was going to use for towing it, but have been told by a friend that I would
> >be better off legally to use my 2 litre diesel Freelander.
> >From what I can gather from googling, the most I can tow with the Freelander
> >is about 1.25 ton. Is this correct? It doesnt seem a lot compared to other
> >(lesser?) vehicles.
> >

>
> I can sell you a nice trailer which would suit it...
>
> meanwhile... look at the gross train weight on the vehicle plate. Should
> tell you what it's supposed to be able to tow. I'm not sure that it's
> legally binding, mind. I doubt you'd be better off with the freeloader,
> meself. Your digger plus trailer is gonna come in at at least 2 tons.


And that will very likely mean that you'll be running with over 3.5
tonnes GTW, so check your driving licence.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
I tow a caravan weighing over 1.5 tons using the Mrs Jeep weighing 2.2 tons.
Do I need a special license? I don't think so.
Stew

"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> remember this discussion from some time ago, if you want to tow the full 4
> tons you need air brakes as per artics, then you get replated, or sommat
> like that.
>
>
> --
> Larry
> Series 3 rust and holes
>
>
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:15:15 +0100, "Stuart"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>
>> I can sell you a nice trailer which would suit it...
>>
>> meanwhile... look at the gross train weight on the vehicle plate. Should
>> tell you what it's supposed to be able to tow. I'm not sure that it's
>> legally binding, mind. I doubt you'd be better off with the freeloader,
>> meself. Your digger plus trailer is gonna come in at at least 2 tons.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
>> "Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
>> Boswell's "Johnson".

>
>



 
In message <[email protected]>
"Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have a 1.5 ton mini-digger that I would like to transport very
> occasionally. I have a Nissan Cabstar 3 litre turbo pick-up truck that I
> was going to use for towing it, but have been told by a friend that I would
> be better off legally to use my 2 litre diesel Freelander.
> From what I can gather from googling, the most I can tow with the Freelander
> is about 1.25 ton. Is this correct? It doesnt seem a lot compared to other
> (lesser?) vehicles.
>
>


I'm reasonably sure that the Freelander can tow 2 tons - but check with
the hand book that came with the vehicle to be sure, though when
allowing for the trailer you're going to be pretty close to the limit
if it is 2 tons.

I don't know about the Cabstar, but quite a lot of the Jap (and US)
4x4's have remarkably low towing weights (one or two people have been
caught out round here at Ministry checks)

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:26:33 +0100, "Larry" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>remember this discussion from some time ago, if you want to tow the full 4
>tons you need air brakes as per artics, then you get replated, or sommat
>like that.


not per se air brakes. It does however need a linked braking system of some
kind rather than over-run brakes.

If used commercially, you go over the 3.5T limit for PLG and should fit a
tachograph and conform to the tachograph rules and hours limits.

If it's purely private, then you don't have to do that lot.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:00:31 +0100 (BST),
[email protected] ("David G. Bell") enlightened us thusly:

>
>And that will very likely mean that you'll be running with over 3.5
>tonnes GTW, so check your driving licence.


Yeah, modern licences first issued after 1/1/97 only allow a 750Kg trailer.
To tow heavier trailers or to drive goods vehicles from 3.5T MAM and not
over 7.5T MAM you need separate tests. What I can't tell you off-hand is
whether if you take the C1 (goods vehicles as above) test that also covers
you for larger trailers behind smaller vehicles.

all us old fogeys already have full B+E, and C1, and indeed C1+E(8.25Tonnes)

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On or around Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:38:39 +0100, "90ninety"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I tow a caravan weighing over 1.5 tons using the Mrs Jeep weighing 2.2 tons.
>Do I need a special license? I don't think so.
>Stew


If your licence was issued after 1/1/97, then yes. See other post.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On or around Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:26:32 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I don't know about the Cabstar, but quite a lot of the Jap (and US)
>4x4's have remarkably low towing weights (one or two people have been
>caught out round here at Ministry checks)
>


what I'm not sure about is whether the towing weights in vehicle handbooks
and suchlike places are in fact manadatory maixma.

On commercials, you tend to have a gross train weight as well as GVW (now
known as MAM), and I don't know, in fact, if that's legally binding either.
It's not, for example, a ministry plate.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On or around Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:26:32 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> "Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have a 1.5 ton mini-digger that I would like to transport very
>> occasionally. I have a Nissan Cabstar 3 litre turbo pick-up truck that I
>> was going to use for towing it, but have been told by a friend that I would
>> be better off legally to use my 2 litre diesel Freelander.
>> From what I can gather from googling, the most I can tow with the Freelander
>> is about 1.25 ton. Is this correct? It doesnt seem a lot compared to other
>> (lesser?) vehicles.
>>
>>

>
>I'm reasonably sure that the Freelander can tow 2 tons - but check with
>the hand book that came with the vehicle to be sure, though when
>allowing for the trailer you're going to be pretty close to the limit
>if it is 2 tons.
>
>I don't know about the Cabstar, but quite a lot of the Jap (and US)
>4x4's have remarkably low towing weights (one or two people have been
>caught out round here at Ministry checks)


hmmm. Just been looking in the traffic legislation, and I can't see
anything about trailers exceeding or not exceeding the manufacturer's
recommended trailer weight.

Highway code says, in regulation 74:

you MUST NOT overload your vehicle or trailer. You should not tow a weight
greater than that recommended by the manufacturer of your vehicle

and refers to C&U, regulation 100:

>100. Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc.
>
>(1) A motor vehicle, every trailer drawn thereby and all parts and
>accessories of such vehicle and trailer shall at all times be in
>such condition, and the number of passengers carried by such vehicle
>or trailer, the manner in which any passengers are carried in or on
>such vehicle or trailer, and the weight, distribution, packing and
>adjustment of the load of such vehicle or trailer shall at all times
>be such, that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to any
>person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road. Provided that
>the provisions of this regulation with regard to the number of
>passengers carried shall not apply to a vehicle to which the Public
>Service Vehicles (Carrying Capacity) Regulations 1984 apply.
>
>(2) The load carried by a motor vehicle or trailer shall at all
>times be so secured, if necessary by physical restraint other than
>its own weight, and be in such a position, that neither danger nor
>nuisance is likely to be caused to any person or property by reason
>of the load or any part thereof falling or being blown from the
>vehicle or by reason of any other movement of the load or any part
>thereof in relation to the vehicle.
>
>(3) No motor vehicle or trailer shall be used for any purpose for
>which it is so unsuitable as to cause or be likely to cause danger
>or nuisance to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road.


In that lot, I suspect that 100(3) is the one they could get you for.
However, I assume they'd have to prove that the vehicle was so unsuited as
to cause a danger. I guess if you try to tow 5 tons behind a metro, you
could well argue that this could cause a danger. However, towing say 2500Kg
behind a vehicle rated to tow 2000Kg, I reckon they'd have to prove that you
were travelling recklessly fast, or that the brakes weren't up to scratch,
or something.

Bearing in mind, of course, that lower speed limits apply to vehicles towing
trailers, so that if they pulled you at 70 with a oversize trailer on they
will do you for the speed limit and maybe for contravening C&U as well.



--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
Nothing to do with the licence it's construction and use regs I think,
trailer over a certain weight needs coupled brakes, overrun will not do, nor
the electric arrangement they have in the states.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I tow a caravan weighing over 1.5 tons using the Mrs Jeep weighing 2.2

tons.
> Do I need a special license? I don't think so.
> Stew
>
> "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...



 
On or around Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:53:31 +0100, "Larry" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Nothing to do with the licence it's construction and use regs I think,
>trailer over a certain weight needs coupled brakes, overrun will not do, nor
>the electric arrangement they have in the states.


I believe you can have electric ones.

hmmm. 'snot in C&U, or not that I can find. In fact, for modern trailers,
the brakes have to comply with some European directive, buggrem.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On Wednesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Austin Shackles" wrote:

> On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:00:31 +0100 (BST),
> [email protected] ("David G. Bell") enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >And that will very likely mean that you'll be running with over 3.5
> >tonnes GTW, so check your driving licence.

>
> Yeah, modern licences first issued after 1/1/97 only allow a 750Kg trailer.
> To tow heavier trailers or to drive goods vehicles from 3.5T MAM and not
> over 7.5T MAM you need separate tests. What I can't tell you off-hand is
> whether if you take the C1 (goods vehicles as above) test that also covers
> you for larger trailers behind smaller vehicles.
>
> all us old fogeys already have full B+E, and C1, and indeed C1+E(8.25Tonnes)


And some of us old fogeys were barred on medical grounds... Check,
before you get caught.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:37:43 +0100, MVP wrote:

> out if interest I just checked my licence, got it about 12 years
> ago, and it lists..
> B BE C1 C1E D1 D1E f k l n p,
> no idea what they are but I'm not sure if they are from my old
> military licence somehow or what.


I don't think so that is what I have had since 1977...

You don't have a nice pink and green paper licence then, all the info
is on that. Not enough room on the silly modern plastic thingy...

B = car <=3500kg <= 8 seats.
BE = car + trailer
C1 = box van 3500kg to 7500kg
C1E = box van + trailer <= 8250kg by a note not the 12000kg normally
allowed
D1 = minibus >8 <=16 seats
D1E = minibus + trailer "weight limit does not apply" by a note
normally <= 12000kg

f = agricultural tractor
k = mowing machine or pedestrian controlled vehicle
l = donno...
n = donno...
p = moped

Also provisional for a bike (A), road roller (G) and tracked vehicle
(H).

I can't drive a minibus for hire or reward. No endorsements or points,
not even old ones. B-)

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:37:43 +0100, MVP
<mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:14:40 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:00:31 +0100 (BST),
>>[email protected] ("David G. Bell") enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>
>>>And that will very likely mean that you'll be running with over 3.5
>>>tonnes GTW, so check your driving licence.

>>
>>Yeah, modern licences first issued after 1/1/97 only allow a 750Kg trailer.
>>To tow heavier trailers or to drive goods vehicles from 3.5T MAM and not
>>over 7.5T MAM you need separate tests. What I can't tell you off-hand is
>>whether if you take the C1 (goods vehicles as above) test that also covers
>>you for larger trailers behind smaller vehicles.
>>
>>all us old fogeys already have full B+E, and C1, and indeed C1+E(8.25Tonnes)
>>

>
>out if interest I just checked my licence, got it about 12 years ago,
>and it lists..
>B BE C1 C1E D1 D1E f k l n p,
>no idea what they are but I'm not sure if they are from my old
>military licence somehow or what.


B= car (and light goods not exceeding 3500Kg MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass,
no less))
B+E= car+trailer
C1= Goods vehicle 3500-7499Kg MAM
C1+E= Ditto plus trailer (you may have a category restriction which limits
you to 8.25T train weight)
D1= Minibus (9-16 passengers) (you may have category restriction 1: not for
hire or reward)
D1+E= ditto plus trailer

erm... lessee...

F= agricultural tractor
K= mowing machines and pedestrian controlled vehicles
L= electric vehicles
N= restricted use vehicles
P= mopeds

Mine has the same groups, I notice it *doesn't* specify 8.25T for C1+E,
although I'm damned sure it should...

I also have provisional entitlement for groups G and H, which are road
rollers and tracked vehicles respectively.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On or around Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:54:45 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>B = car <=3500kg <= 8 seats.


<=8 *passenger* seats. 9 including driver.

I see I was a tiny bit in error on the weights: you're right, the correct
values are as you say:

B: <=3500Kg,
C1: 3500Kg<MAM<=7500Kg.

oh and I forgot class A on mine. Note that motorcycle entitlement is in
theory now only for 2 years max.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:32:51 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> Mine has the same groups, I notice it *doesn't* specify 8.25T for
> C1+E, although I'm damned sure it should...


That is applied via numbered note on my licence the little pictogram
has 12Mg as the weight.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:08:22 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:32:51 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> Mine has the same groups, I notice it *doesn't* specify 8.25T for
>> C1+E, although I'm damned sure it should...

>
>That is applied via numbered note on my licence the little pictogram
>has 12Mg as the weight.


hmmm. The normal limit for 7.5T plus trailer is indeed 12T. However,
there's supposed to be a reduced limit of 8.25T for those who have C1 as a
result of passing a car test long enough ago that you got C1 along with it.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
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