Biodiesel Home Made?

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R

RichardB

Guest

Price of diesel here in Norfolk continues to rise
at an alarming rate. Filled up yesterday at 97.9
per litre. MPG for the LR90 is quite good at just
under 30 with a light right foot and reasonable
speed and not much in the way of baggage.

Watching Dick Strawbridge on BBC2 a couple of days
ago turned my thoughts to running the old girl on
biodiesel - straight vegetable oil looks a bit too
much of a challenge given the costs, short
journeys and low mileage.

So, having a Google I've worked out the process
for conversion and it looks reasonably simple on a
very small scale. My question, at last, is just
how much effort is required to create a reasonable
tank full quantity on a regular basis. Small
scale 'Dr Pepper' process looks quite labour
intensive with all the filtering and washing required.

Anybody on the group had a go and if so how did
you source the required quantities of methanol and
sodium hydroxide?

I know that tax is an issue on the end product so
is the input effort in terms of time and materials
worth it for a light user?

Not an eco-nut but conscious of the need to reduce
the anti 4x4 bias by being able to retort to the
greens that i'm carbon neutral!!

Regards

Richard

PS - live next door to a pub and have a quantity
of Adnams inside me so I hope all the above makes
some sense.....

PPS - Dick Strawbridge traded an Audi for a LR90
as part of his go green project. Prime time TV too....
 
On 2006-04-20, RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> wrote:

> Anybody on the group had a go and if so how did
> you source the required quantities of methanol and
> sodium hydroxide?

Every time I've looked into making it myself, doing it properly
involves a fair amount of chemistry that, if done incorrectly, can
result in death, blindness or dementia (seriously). Buggering about
with it as a total amateur just didn't seem worth the risks. I saw
some sites that just gave the chemical processes without telling you
about the dangers, and others that made the dangers very explicit.

All this was about 2 years ago so I can't remember any of the URLs any
more.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-04-20, RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> Anybody on the group had a go and if so how did
>> you source the required quantities of methanol and
>> sodium hydroxide?
>
> Every time I've looked into making it myself, doing it properly
> involves a fair amount of chemistry that, if done incorrectly, can
> result in death, blindness or dementia (seriously). Buggering about
> with it as a total amateur just didn't seem worth the risks. I saw
> some sites that just gave the chemical processes without telling you
> about the dangers, and others that made the dangers very explicit.
>
> All this was about 2 years ago so I can't remember any of the URLs any
> more.
>

To be fair to the sites I looked they all stressed
the safety angle. The chemicals required can be
dangerous if not used with appropriate protection
and care.

I guess you have echoed my own, unexpressed,
thoughts that home production is not worthwhile -
yet....

Richard
 
RichardB wrote:

> So, having a Google I've worked out the process for conversion and it
> looks reasonably simple on a very small scale. My question, at last, is
> just how much effort is required to create a reasonable tank full
> quantity on a regular basis. Small scale 'Dr Pepper' process looks quite
> labour intensive with all the filtering and washing required.

Lets just hope they hurry up the development of this.

http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,70702-0.html?tw=rss.technology

--
EMB
 
Have used Methanol for years in model plane engines - always tipping the
stuff over me. As to the sodium hydroxide you will soon wash it off before
it does any real damage - they use it in loads of hair products etc anyway.

The chemistry ain't the problem - it is good old customs and excise!!!


"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-04-20, RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> wrote:
>
> > Anybody on the group had a go and if so how did
> > you source the required quantities of methanol and
> > sodium hydroxide?
>
> Every time I've looked into making it myself, doing it properly
> involves a fair amount of chemistry that, if done incorrectly, can
> result in death, blindness or dementia (seriously). Buggering about
> with it as a total amateur just didn't seem worth the risks. I saw
> some sites that just gave the chemical processes without telling you
> about the dangers, and others that made the dangers very explicit.
>
> All this was about 2 years ago so I can't remember any of the URLs any
> more.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!


 
Vince wrote:
> Have used Methanol for years in model plane engines - always tipping the
> stuff over me. As to the sodium hydroxide you will soon wash it off before
> it does any real damage - they use it in loads of hair products etc anyway.
>
> The chemistry ain't the problem - it is good old customs and excise!!!

Doesn't it become nastier as Sodium Methoxide ?

Steve
 

"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RichardB wrote:
>
>> So, having a Google I've worked out the process for conversion and it
>> looks reasonably simple on a very small scale. My question, at last, is
>> just how much effort is required to create a reasonable tank full
>> quantity on a regular basis. Small scale 'Dr Pepper' process looks quite
>> labour intensive with all the filtering and washing required.
>
> Lets just hope they hurry up the development of this.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,70702-0.html?tw=rss.technology
>
> --
> EMB

have a squint at this option http://www.dieselveg.com/ .as time goes on
more efficient ways of using vegetable oils will come along.The potential
for genetically modified oil crops producing higher flashpoint oils should
have the "green at any cost" brigade behaving like the Ouzelum bird.
Derek


 
On 2006-04-20, Vince <[email protected]> wrote:

> Have used Methanol for years in model plane engines - always tipping
> the stuff over me. As to the sodium hydroxide you will soon wash it
> off before it does any real damage - they use it in loads of hair
> products etc anyway.

There is a little more to it than that, try having a peek around for
the processes involved.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:14:28 +0100, RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom>
wrote:

>
> Price of diesel here in Norfolk continues to rise at an alarming rate.

Have you seen this site yet?
http://www.bio-power.co.uk/index.htm
There's a good make-it-yourself page, and also a list of suppliers.
I buy fuel from their Glasgow guy at 80p/litre and have run up to 75%
biodiesel in my land rover with great success.

all best

Olly
--
1997 110 Station Wagon
 
On or around Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:52:08 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>RichardB wrote:
>
>> So, having a Google I've worked out the process for conversion and it
>> looks reasonably simple on a very small scale. My question, at last, is
>> just how much effort is required to create a reasonable tank full
>> quantity on a regular basis. Small scale 'Dr Pepper' process looks quite
>> labour intensive with all the filtering and washing required.
>
>Lets just hope they hurry up the development of this.
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,70702-0.html?tw=rss.technology


""This is all about producing energy in such a way that it liberates
people," said Goran Jovanovic, a chemical engineering professor at Oregon
State University who developed the microreactor."

It's to be hoped that the scientific bollocks comes from the reporting and
not the engineering professor. I know engineers aren't per se scientists,
but it's a pretty basic tenet of the physical sciences that you can't create
energy. In a car engine you convert chemical energy into sound, heat and
mechanical energy (mostly). All the gadget is doing is (I assume) modifying
chemicals in such a way that you can more readily do this.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On 2006-04-21, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> ""This is all about producing energy in such a way that it liberates
> people," said Goran Jovanovic

Did anyone read that story about the woman who is using the parts from
a Boeing 747 to make a house? Sadly it's a house-looking house, she's
not living in the plane (as I would, sitting feet-up on the dash
smoking a pipe). Typically they managed to work "Native Americans"
into it by comparing ripping apart a large airliner and building a
multi-million pound house out of it, to the "recycling" that the
amerinds did.

Please note that this post has been constructed from recycled star
matter, just like the eskimos.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 

Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-04-21, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ""This is all about producing energy in such a way that it liberates
> > people," said Goran Jovanovic
>
> Did anyone read that story about the woman who is using the parts from
> a Boeing 747 to make a house?

<snip>

Better be careful with her landing lights then!!!

(Sorry - but soemone had to!)

Cheers

Peter

 
On 2006-04-21, puffernutter <[email protected]> wrote:

> Better be careful with her landing lights then!!!

You may jest, but the design had to make sure that the parts used for
the house didn't resemble an aircraft crash from the air to prevent
false alarm calls!

I wonder if she got to keep the emergency exit slides..

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> ""This is all about producing energy in such a way that it liberates
> people," said Goran Jovanovic, a chemical engineering professor at Oregon
> State University who developed the microreactor."

He doesn'SAY create energy, he says produce it, in the sense that a
turbo-alternator "produces" energy. His new process manages to catalyse
oil without farting about with adding extra heat, caustic etc. If it
works its great, but it doesn't answer the question about where the hell
we get all this veggie oil.

Steve
 
On or around Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:51:48 +0100, Steve
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> ""This is all about producing energy in such a way that it liberates
>> people," said Goran Jovanovic, a chemical engineering professor at Oregon
>> State University who developed the microreactor."
>
>He doesn'SAY create energy, he says produce it, in the sense that a
>turbo-alternator "produces" energy. His new process manages to catalyse
>oil without farting about with adding extra heat, caustic etc. If it
>works its great, but it doesn't answer the question about where the hell
>we get all this veggie oil.

yeah, but it's still the same terminological inexactitude, though. a
machine converts energy into a form in which you can use it more readily, or
stores energy in a manner in which renders it readily available.

What the bloke has made is a simple means by which to convert vegetable oil
into engine fuel, and as such, the chances are it probably USES energy,
although I've not looked at details.

Given a ready energy supply, you can make the energy do work.

Which doesn't mean that I disapprove of what's been done or that it's a bad
idea or anything, just that especially a scientist should be more accurate
in what he says, assuming that they were indeed his words.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)
 
On or around Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:19:50 +0100, "Olly R"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:14:28 +0100, RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Price of diesel here in Norfolk continues to rise at an alarming rate.
>
>Have you seen this site yet?
>http://www.bio-power.co.uk/index.htm
>There's a good make-it-yourself page, and also a list of suppliers.
>I buy fuel from their Glasgow guy at 80p/litre and have run up to 75%
>biodiesel in my land rover with great success.

local biodiesel lot are damn nigh as expensive as dino diesel, and haven't,
as I could see, got enough capacity to supply meaningfully. I enquired
about bulk, and got the impression that they weren't interested and that in
any case it'd take about month to get it. Not much use if I want about 150l
a week.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

the best site on the net for all things veggie oil etc..
start here, and just do it. its really quite simple.
the backyard chemical process is much like doing your own (eg) house wiring.
follow best practice and you wont kill yourself.

goggles, gloves and plenty of water on hand just in case. keep children and pets well away.
a large dollop of common sense is very useful in these matters.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>local biodiesel lot are damn nigh as expensive as dino diesel, and haven't,
>as I could see, got enough capacity to supply meaningfully. I enquired
>about bulk, and got the impression that they weren't interested and that in
>any case it'd take about month to get it. Not much use if I want about 150l
>a week.

For that much, isn't it worth having it delivered directly?

Have you got the space for a 100l tank?

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
 
On or around Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:13:28 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> writes
>>local biodiesel lot are damn nigh as expensive as dino diesel, and haven't,
>>as I could see, got enough capacity to supply meaningfully. I enquired
>>about bulk, and got the impression that they weren't interested and that in
>>any case it'd take about month to get it. Not much use if I want about 150l
>>a week.
>
>For that much, isn't it worth having it delivered directly?
>
>Have you got the space for a 100l tank?

plenty, but there's still the question of supply. I got the impression that
they were selling all they make and lacked capacity to make more.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
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