Another Defender 90 Propshaft Question...Advice sought.

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J

Jon

Guest
Hi all,

I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.

So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
anything be done with the seized spline?

When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.

My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
new grease was pouring from the joint???

Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
new prop time?

Thanks
Jon
 
Jon wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
> of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
> rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.
>
> So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
> and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
> anything be done with the seized spline?
>
> When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
> to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.
>
> My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
> new grease was pouring from the joint???
>
> Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
> new prop time?
>
> Thanks
> Jon

For what it will cost i would replace the prop. No point arsing around for hours when a new prop will
cure it right away with minimum effort.

I suppose it all depends on your budget & if you're gonna do the job yourself vs. labour times etc.

Nige


--
--
Subaru WRX
Range Rover LSE (Bob) FOR SALE!!!
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

'"I don't remember asking you a goddam thing"


 
Speedy reply Nige - Thanks.

If a new prop is on the cards then what type? At the moment I'm
running stock suspension and 235x85 ATs with no immediate plans to
raise it, certainly not beyond 1" - 2". OME springs & dampers going
on one day...

Would a cheap one from Paddocks or somewhere be OK or would I be
better spending a bit more and getting an OE one? I probably do
15,000 miles a year.

Thanks
Jon



On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 16:50:05 -0000, "Nige"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jon wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
>> of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
>> rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.
>>
>> So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
>> and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
>> anything be done with the seized spline?
>>
>> When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
>> to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.
>>
>> My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
>> new grease was pouring from the joint???
>>
>> Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
>> new prop time?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jon
>
>For what it will cost i would replace the prop. No point arsing around for hours when a new prop will
>cure it right away with minimum effort.
>
>I suppose it all depends on your budget & if you're gonna do the job yourself vs. labour times etc.
>
>Nige
>
>
>--?
>--?
>Subaru WRX
>Range Rover LSE (Bob) FOR SALE!!!
>Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)
>
>'"I don't remember asking you a goddam thing"
>

 
Jon wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
> of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
> rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.
>
> So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
> and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
> anything be done with the seized spline?
>
> When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
> to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.
>
> My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
> new grease was pouring from the joint???
>
> Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
> new prop time?
>
> Thanks
> Jon

It obviously shouldn't be that tight.

You say that fresh grease comes out of the joint - is this the point
where one part slides within the other or at the end of the shaft near
the UJ? There is often a plug at the UJ end of the female spline which
can blow out under grease pressure. Once this happens no grease reaches
the splines themselves.

Check for presence of alignment marks or make your own (assumes that it
was correctly aligned at the beginning!). Fully dismantle and clean,
check for burrs, twisted splines or a bent shaft. Grease and
re-assemble. I'd be surprised if you can't salvage it unless twisted/bent.
 
>
>It obviously shouldn't be that tight.
>
>You say that fresh grease comes out of the joint - is this the point
>where one part slides within the other or at the end of the shaft near
>the UJ?
When I use the grease nipple to grease the spline, new grease exits
from where the two parts of the spline slide together.

There is often a plug at the UJ end of the female spline which
>can blow out under grease pressure. Once this happens no grease
reaches
>the splines themselves.
>
>Check for presence of alignment marks or make your own (assumes that it
>was correctly aligned at the beginning!). Fully dismantle and clean,
>check for burrs, twisted splines or a bent shaft. Grease and
>re-assemble. I'd be surprised if you can't salvage it unless twisted/bent.

If I keep extending the prop along the splines, will I end up with two
bits (hence the need for alignment marks)? or will it stop at its
maximum travel?


Thanks
Jon

 
Jon wrote:

>>It obviously shouldn't be that tight.
>>
>>You say that fresh grease comes out of the joint - is this the point
>>where one part slides within the other or at the end of the shaft near
>>the UJ?
>
> When I use the grease nipple to grease the spline, new grease exits
> from where the two parts of the spline slide together.
>
> There is often a plug at the UJ end of the female spline which
>
>>can blow out under grease pressure. Once this happens no grease
>
> reaches
>
>>the splines themselves.
>>
>>Check for presence of alignment marks or make your own (assumes that it
>>was correctly aligned at the beginning!). Fully dismantle and clean,
>>check for burrs, twisted splines or a bent shaft. Grease and
>>re-assemble. I'd be surprised if you can't salvage it unless twisted/bent.
>
>
> If I keep extending the prop along the splines, will I end up with two
> bits (hence the need for alignment marks)? or will it stop at its
> maximum travel?
>
>
> Thanks
> Jon

There should be a screwed ring on the female part where one part slides
within the other. This retains a grease seal (usually felt) and also
keeps the two parts together. If the screwed ring is unscrewed you will
be able to dismantle the shaft fully - hence the need for alignment aids
for re-assembly. A shaft that slides as reluctantly as yours will do the
UJs no favours: don't replace them without also getting the shaft to slide.
 
>Jon wrote:
>
>>>It obviously shouldn't be that tight.
>>>
>>>You say that fresh grease comes out of the joint - is this the point
>>>where one part slides within the other or at the end of the shaft near
>>>the UJ?
>>
>> When I use the grease nipple to grease the spline, new grease exits
>> from where the two parts of the spline slide together.
>>
>> There is often a plug at the UJ end of the female spline which
>>
>>>can blow out under grease pressure. Once this happens no grease
>>
>> reaches
>>
>>>the splines themselves.
>>>
>>>Check for presence of alignment marks or make your own (assumes that it
>>>was correctly aligned at the beginning!). Fully dismantle and clean,
>>>check for burrs, twisted splines or a bent shaft. Grease and
>>>re-assemble. I'd be surprised if you can't salvage it unless twisted/bent.
>>
>>
>> If I keep extending the prop along the splines, will I end up with two
>> bits (hence the need for alignment marks)? or will it stop at its
>> maximum travel?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jon
>
>There should be a screwed ring on the female part where one part slides
>within the other. This retains a grease seal (usually felt) and also
>keeps the two parts together. If the screwed ring is unscrewed you will
>be able to dismantle the shaft fully - hence the need for alignment aids
>for re-assembly. A shaft that slides as reluctantly as yours will do the
>UJs no favours: don't replace them without also getting the shaft to slide.


Thanks Dougal. Thats tomorrow nights job then!!
 
Jon wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
> of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
> rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.
>
> So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
> and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
> anything be done with the seized spline?
>
> When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
> to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.
>
> My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
> new grease was pouring from the joint???
>
> Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
> new prop time?
>
> Thanks
> Jon

The old grease may well have solidified in situ, try heating it and cleaning
out the old crud. Grease going off like that is a standard feature of Series
1's, surprising to hear of it in a 90 though.

K


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast


 
Prolly best to renew it,I bought one of those propshaft removal
sockets takes a couple of minutes with an air ratchet now :)


 
In message <[email protected]>
Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
> of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
> rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.
>
> So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
> and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
> anything be done with the seized spline?
>
> When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
> to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.
>
> My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
> new grease was pouring from the joint???
>
> Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
> new prop time?
>
> Thanks
> Jon

There are a couple of different rear props, and of course it may well
have been replaced with something else already. As someone else
has commented, from your description it is a possibility that the
wromg grease has been used and has gummed things up - it should be
be a Lithium based EP2 high pressure gease.

There is (usually) a ring that can be unscrewed to allow the two
halves to be seperated. If you can get them apart you will be able
to examine the splines (looking for "steps" on them). If the splines
show signs of wear then replacement is the best option in the long run.

The earlier shafts do have a felt "wiper" on the splines under the
screw ring, but later ones have a nylon wiper - if yours has this
DO NOT heat it - the nylon metls and it may become impossible to
sperate the two halves.

I can't speak for others, but our "replacement" prop shafts are all
currently GKN - very nice.

I can't tell you which you would need without the last bit if the VIN
number and/or the engine/gearbox combination.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:20:57 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I decided to investigate the knocking and grumbling noise to the rear
>> of my 90 today. As well as getting wet I found that I have a worn
>> rear UJ. This isnt the problem, the seized spline however is.
>>
>> So my rerar prop is about dead at the moment. The front UJ is fine
>> and there is some play in the rear UJ so i'll replace that. But, can
>> anything be done with the seized spline?
>>
>> When I say seized I mean it neads a lump hammer with some persuasion
>> to extend the spline and equal amounts of force to push back together.
>>
>> My first thought was a lack of grease, but about 1/4 trigger later and
>> new grease was pouring from the joint???
>>
>> Any thoughts please? Are the splines servicable (hopefully) or is it
>> new prop time?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jon
>
>There are a couple of different rear props, and of course it may well
>have been replaced with something else already. As someone else
>has commented, from your description it is a possibility that the
>wromg grease has been used and has gummed things up - it should be
>be a Lithium based EP2 high pressure gease.
>
>There is (usually) a ring that can be unscrewed to allow the two
>halves to be seperated. If you can get them apart you will be able
>to examine the splines (looking for "steps" on them). If the splines
>show signs of wear then replacement is the best option in the long run.
>
>The earlier shafts do have a felt "wiper" on the splines under the
>screw ring, but later ones have a nylon wiper - if yours has this
>DO NOT heat it - the nylon metls and it may become impossible to
>sperate the two halves.

I dont know about a fekt wiper, but there does appear to be a plastic
/ nylon sheath around the male part of the shaft, just behind the
yoke.

I did manage to unscrew the plastic ring yesterday.

I'll have a closer look tonight in the dry!
>
>I can't speak for others, but our "replacement" prop shafts are all
>currently GKN - very nice.
>
>I can't tell you which you would need without the last bit if the VIN
>number and/or the engine/gearbox combination.
I'll drop you a mail with this info.
>
>Richard
 
"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I'll have a closer look tonight in the dry!

Look, you need to relook at your approach. If it is dry tonight you need to
put on at least a cold wet T shirt then hose the drive down before even
considering working on the Landie. For the full effect also hose down the
underside then leave the hose on trickle some where that the water is sure
to run down your neck as you get under. Further applications of sharp grit
any where that looks like a good place to put your hands whist clambering
underneath and the obligatory bit of dust in the eye despite protective
goggles along with lump of congealed grease down the ear should ensure that
your nuts are sufficiently tight enough to mean your ring spanner will fly
off the prop bolts hiting you in the teeth and subsequently banging your
head (which has been suspended 3 inches from the floor for at least 5
agonising mintues) hits the cold wet floor and renders you semi unconcious.
Application of heat promptly followed by accute memory loss leading to
grabbing said hot item three seconds later should be concluded with hot
grindings down your sock. You should time this process to coincide with a ,
"Are you going to be much longer? " Request. "Your tea is on the table" or
if you are without partner an urgent mobile phone call from your local
(Punjabi call centre) double glazing specialist despite the fact you already
have double glazing.

I've often seen people working in the dry and I'm sure they aren't getting
the full hit.

Lee

--
www.lrproject.com



 
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:08:55 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> scribbled the following
nonsense:

>"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> I'll have a closer look tonight in the dry!
>
>Look, you need to relook at your approach. If it is dry tonight you need to
>put on at least a cold wet T shirt then hose the drive down before even
>considering working on the Landie. For the full effect also hose down the
>underside then leave the hose on trickle some where that the water is sure
>to run down your neck as you get under. Further applications of sharp grit
>any where that looks like a good place to put your hands whist clambering
>underneath and the obligatory bit of dust in the eye despite protective
>goggles along with lump of congealed grease down the ear should ensure that
>your nuts are sufficiently tight enough to mean your ring spanner will fly
>off the prop bolts hiting you in the teeth and subsequently banging your
>head (which has been suspended 3 inches from the floor for at least 5
>agonising mintues) hits the cold wet floor and renders you semi unconcious.
>Application of heat promptly followed by accute memory loss leading to
>grabbing said hot item three seconds later should be concluded with hot
>grindings down your sock. You should time this process to coincide with a ,
>"Are you going to be much longer? " Request. "Your tea is on the table" or
>if you are without partner an urgent mobile phone call from your local
>(Punjabi call centre) double glazing specialist despite the fact you already
>have double glazing.
>
>I've often seen people working in the dry and I'm sure they aren't getting
>the full hit.
>
>Lee


you owe me a new keyboard!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....
 

>> I'll have a closer look tonight in the dry!
>
>Look, you need to relook at your approach. If it is dry tonight you need to
>put on at least a cold wet T shirt then hose the drive down before even
>considering working on the Landie. For the full effect also hose down the
>underside then leave the hose on trickle some where that the water is sure
>to run down your neck as you get under. Further applications of sharp grit
>any where that looks like a good place to put your hands whist clambering
>underneath and the obligatory bit of dust in the eye despite protective
>goggles along with lump of congealed grease down the ear should ensure that
>your nuts are sufficiently tight enough to mean your ring spanner will fly
>off the prop bolts hiting you in the teeth and subsequently banging your
>head (which has been suspended 3 inches from the floor for at least 5
>agonising mintues) hits the cold wet floor and renders you semi unconcious.
>Application of heat promptly followed by accute memory loss leading to
>grabbing said hot item three seconds later should be concluded with hot
>grindings down your sock. You should time this process to coincide with a ,
>"Are you going to be much longer? " Request. "Your tea is on the table" or
>if you are without partner an urgent mobile phone call from your local
>(Punjabi call centre) double glazing specialist despite the fact you already
>have double glazing.
>
>I've often seen people working in the dry and I'm sure they aren't getting
>the full hit.
>
>Lee

The sad thing is I have experianced all of the above before, perhaps
with the exception of the Punjabi call centre!!
 
In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > I'll have a closer look tonight in the dry!
>
> Look, you need to relook at your approach. If it is dry tonight you need to
> put on at least a cold wet T shirt then hose the drive down before even
> considering working on the Landie. For the full effect also hose down the
> underside then leave the hose on trickle some where that the water is sure
> to run down your neck as you get under. Further applications of sharp grit
> any where that looks like a good place to put your hands whist clambering
> underneath and the obligatory bit of dust in the eye despite protective
> goggles along with lump of congealed grease down the ear should ensure that
> your nuts are sufficiently tight enough to mean your ring spanner will fly
> off the prop bolts hiting you in the teeth and subsequently banging your
> head (which has been suspended 3 inches from the floor for at least 5
> agonising mintues) hits the cold wet floor and renders you semi unconcious.
> Application of heat promptly followed by accute memory loss leading to
> grabbing said hot item three seconds later should be concluded with hot
> grindings down your sock. You should time this process to coincide with a ,
> "Are you going to be much longer? " Request. "Your tea is on the table" or
> if you are without partner an urgent mobile phone call from your local
> (Punjabi call centre) double glazing specialist despite the fact you already
> have double glazing.
>
> I've often seen people working in the dry and I'm sure they aren't getting
> the full hit.
>
> Lee
>
Should't the chassis be Waxoyl'd just prior to starting? Oh, and don't
forget to leave the tray of oil engine oil out in the rain (ideally
just outside the back door), or is that just for pink tarmac drives?

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
jOn wrote:
> Prolly best to renew it,I bought one of those propshaft removal
> sockets takes a couple of minutes with an air ratchet now :)

What do they look like? I've not seen one here (in Australia), presumably
long & thin?

Karen


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast


 
"jOn" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Karen Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> jOn wrote:
>>> Prolly best to renew it,I bought one of those propshaft removal
>>> sockets takes a couple of minutes with an air ratchet now :)
>>
>> What do they look like? I've not seen one here (in Australia),
>> presumably long & thin?
>
> Yes
> http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/tools/lr_propshaft_tool.shtml
>
> spose a socket and extension could be ground down to work.
>
>
>

The best advice I read on doing this job was to jack up one wheel so you
can turn the prop shaft and so easily get at the various nuts and bolts to
remove the UJs. (Now, did I get that right?)

Derry
 

>
>The best advice I read on doing this job was to jack up one wheel so you
>can turn the prop shaft and so easily get at the various nuts and bolts to
>remove the UJs. (Now, did I get that right?)
>
>Derry

This is what I do, assisted by a 14mm and 9/16 spanner.
 
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