another battery question

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cyberwraith

Guest
yes it is that time of the year, but until it gets here we never know just
what will fail. Right Sunday morning very cold and frosty, go out to my
Disco insert key, wait for the 'pig tail' to go out, three times to be sure
and try to start. The engine seems to attempt turning but no firing. OK I
test the battery with a large eye dropper kind of thingy, (yup I am
technical) which tells me 4 out of 6 cells are needy for a charge. So I
charge it which takes 3 hours and the car starts first time. Monday morning,
it starts but only on fifth attempt and then grudgingly, today Tuesday
similar. I have not checked the battery but will tomorrow. Would it be the
battery at fault or just cold start syndrome? I ask because without the car
I am housebound due to disability, and the battery still has 1 year of
guarantee left. Is there any other checks I could make before to returning
the battery and looking like a prize pillock?
Thanks for any help folks it is always appreciated.
cyberwraith


 
....and cyberwraith spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> yes it is that time of the year, but until it gets here we never know
> just what will fail. Right Sunday morning very cold and frosty, go
> out to my Disco insert key, wait for the 'pig tail' to go out, three
> times to be sure and try to start. The engine seems to attempt
> turning but no firing. OK I test the battery with a large eye dropper
> kind of thingy, (yup I am technical) which tells me 4 out of 6 cells
> are needy for a charge. So I charge it which takes 3 hours and the
> car starts first time. Monday morning, it starts but only on fifth
> attempt and then grudgingly, today Tuesday similar. I have not
> checked the battery but will tomorrow. Would it be the battery at
> fault or just cold start syndrome? I ask because without the car I am
> housebound due to disability, and the battery still has 1 year of
> guarantee left. Is there any other checks I could make before to
> returning the battery and looking like a prize pillock? Thanks for any
> help folks it is always appreciated.
> cyberwraith

If all the cells were similar, I'd say it was either a charging or earthing
problem. The fact that some of the cells are lower than others suggests the
battery itself is faulty. If it's got some warranty on it, take it back.
--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
cyberwraith wrote:
> yes it is that time of the year, but until it gets here we never know just
> what will fail. Right Sunday morning very cold and frosty, go out to my
> Disco insert key, wait for the 'pig tail' to go out, three times to be sure
> and try to start. The engine seems to attempt turning but no firing. OK I
> test the battery with a large eye dropper kind of thingy, (yup I am
> technical) which tells me 4 out of 6 cells are needy for a charge. So I
> charge it which takes 3 hours and the car starts first time. Monday morning,
> it starts but only on fifth attempt and then grudgingly, today Tuesday
> similar. I have not checked the battery but will tomorrow. Would it be the
> battery at fault or just cold start syndrome? I ask because without the car
> I am housebound due to disability, and the battery still has 1 year of
> guarantee left. Is there any other checks I could make before to returning
> the battery and looking like a prize pillock?
> Thanks for any help folks it is always appreciated.

If the starter is getting low voltage then the engine will be slow to
crank over - and diesels don't like starting when cranked too slowly.

This could be dirty connections, faulty battery or a faulty starter.
You need to check all the connections between battery and starter,
especially the earth connection. It's probably also worth checking the
current draw of the starter - unless you've got a clamp style ammeter
that reads to about 500A you'll probably have to get a garage to check
it for you. I'm sure someone here will have a sensible figure for tdi
starter current - my books are miles away so I can't look it up but my
gut feel is ~250A.

Also the uneven sg of the battery cells doesn't sound great so it may be
worth getting it properly tested with a view to claiming on the
warranty. Be aware however that a new battery may have sufficient extra
power to initially overcome a fauly starter problem, but as the battery
ages the problem may reoccur - it's probably well worth checking the
starter current just to be sure that all is well.

--
EMB
 
My policy with car batteries is always try and fit the biggest "size"
battery as possible, these new designs don't account for cold weather, and
in all the years I have been driving it is always the 2 to 3 year old bat
which is sized just about to cope with the car its fitted to which lets you
down in the depths of winter. there is no substitute for cross sectional
area of plate or layers, this can only be achieved with a physically big
bat. This is what I do and touch wood have not had any problems in the cold
also you can get away with leaving your side lights on and still start the
car..

Rich
--
To reply remove " spam "



"cyberwraith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> yes it is that time of the year, but until it gets here we never know just
> what will fail. Right Sunday morning very cold and frosty, go out to my
> Disco insert key, wait for the 'pig tail' to go out, three times to be
sure
> and try to start. The engine seems to attempt turning but no firing. OK I
> test the battery with a large eye dropper kind of thingy, (yup I am
> technical) which tells me 4 out of 6 cells are needy for a charge. So I
> charge it which takes 3 hours and the car starts first time. Monday
morning,
> it starts but only on fifth attempt and then grudgingly, today Tuesday
> similar. I have not checked the battery but will tomorrow. Would it be the
> battery at fault or just cold start syndrome? I ask because without the
car
> I am housebound due to disability, and the battery still has 1 year of
> guarantee left. Is there any other checks I could make before to returning
> the battery and looking like a prize pillock?
> Thanks for any help folks it is always appreciated.
> cyberwraith
>
>


 

"cyberwraith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> yes it is that time of the year, but until it gets here we never know just
> what will fail. Right Sunday morning very cold and frosty, go out to my
> Disco insert key, wait for the 'pig tail' to go out, three times to be
> sure and try to start. The engine seems to attempt turning but no firing.
> OK I test the battery with a large eye dropper kind of thingy, (yup I am
> technical) which tells me 4 out of 6 cells are needy for a charge. So I
> charge it which takes 3 hours and the car starts first time. Monday
> morning, it starts but only on fifth attempt and then grudgingly, today
> Tuesday similar. I have not checked the battery but will tomorrow. Would
> it be the battery at fault or just cold start syndrome? I ask because
> without the car I am housebound due to disability, and the battery still
> has 1 year of guarantee left. Is there any other checks I could make
> before to returning the battery and looking like a prize pillock?
> Thanks for any help folks it is always appreciated.
> cyberwraith
Take it to a proper garage/battery specialist with a load tester if it is
dodgy it will take a charge and appear ok for a day or so but not maintain
the charge That on a hyrometer test may appear similar to a battery which is
just not being charged sufficiently. A load tester will show up any
deficiency by stressing the battery the same way starting does have a look
at
http://www.marcspages.co.uk/tech/5104.htm answering a different question but
covering your concern
Derek
( we used to check individual cells before progress sealed them away)


 
On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:34:41 GMT, "cyberwraith"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>yes it is that time of the year, but until it gets here we never know just
>what will fail. Right Sunday morning very cold and frosty, go out to my
>Disco insert key, wait for the 'pig tail' to go out, three times to be sure
>and try to start. The engine seems to attempt turning but no firing. OK I
>test the battery with a large eye dropper kind of thingy, (yup I am
>technical) which tells me 4 out of 6 cells are needy for a charge. So I
>charge it which takes 3 hours and the car starts first time. Monday morning,
>it starts but only on fifth attempt and then grudgingly, today Tuesday
>similar. I have not checked the battery but will tomorrow. Would it be the
>battery at fault or just cold start syndrome? I ask because without the car
>I am housebound due to disability, and the battery still has 1 year of
>guarantee left. Is there any other checks I could make before to returning
>the battery and looking like a prize pillock?
>Thanks for any help folks it is always appreciated.
>cyberwraith
>

does sound iffy if some cells are down more than others.

another thing to check is glowplugs. Although a good TDi shouldn't *really*
need 'em, if the battery is up to it. The 300 TDi here only once failed to
start, when its original battery gave up at about 8 years old (!).

The Ford Di in the minibus doesn't seem to have any, and it's started so far
this year.

See other thread about batteries for discos though. You can put a biggun on
it, 643 or 644 - need a minor mod to the battery clamp and IIRC move a cable
from the side of the engine bay to get it in. Gives peace of mind that the
battery is big enough, and they tend to be cheaper to boot.

If you need to know which number, I'll look it up tomorrow.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The boys are dreaming wicked or of the bucking ranches of the night and
the jollyrodgered sea." Dylan Thomas (1914 - 1953) Under milk wood
 
Thanks for all the help and advise folks. Tomorrow morning I will take the
Disco to my local garage and get the test done. I shall keep you all
updated.


 
Thanks about the info regarding larger battery. Off the top of my head I
cannot recall what is on Edie, pronounced eedee, except that it is a heavy
duty one. When I go to the garage tomorrow I shall enquire about a larger
one. ooer!


 
Right update time, I have had the battery tested and it failed! The
alternator is ok putting out 14.4v so this afternoon I am off back to a
certain chainstore which shall remain nameless, and which I will certainly
never go to again. This will be the 4th item returned! Guess the store,
think of a murderous sci-fi computer and then add the name of an American
car manufacturer, who stole LR, in my opinion anyway.


 
On or around Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:27:09 GMT, "cyberwraith"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Right update time, I have had the battery tested and it failed! The
>alternator is ok putting out 14.4v so this afternoon I am off back to a
>certain chainstore which shall remain nameless, and which I will certainly
>never go to again. This will be the 4th item returned! Guess the store,
>think of a murderous sci-fi computer and then add the name of an American
>car manufacturer, who stole LR, in my opinion anyway.
>

hehehehe

whereabouts are you? If you have any tractor or agricultural type places,
they generally have nice cheap big batteries.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 
Ok this is the outcome, to start with Austin I live in Atherton, Wigan nr
Manchester. I took the battery back to Halfords where they tested it and
their machine said the battery needed replacing. So I now have a brand new
battery. I do have one question arising from this, the original battery had
a 3 year guarantee with 1 year left. The new battery is a 3 year the same
but I was told that I can only have 1 year as that is what was left on the
original. Which should it be, anyone know? Thanks once again to everyone who
has helped.


 
cyberwraith <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Ok this is the outcome, to start with Austin I live in Atherton,
> Wigan nr Manchester. I took the battery back to Halfords where they
> tested it and their machine said the battery needed replacing. So I
> now have a brand new battery. I do have one question arising from
> this, the original battery had a 3 year guarantee with 1 year left.
> The new battery is a 3 year the same but I was told that I can only
> have 1 year as that is what was left on the original. Which should it
> be, anyone know? Thanks once again to everyone who has helped.

Sounds fair, chances are you were unlucky so fingers crossed you should get
an extra year for your money so to speak (use anyway).

Lee D.


--
www.lrproject.com



 
On or around Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:33:33 GMT, "cyberwraith"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Ok this is the outcome, to start with Austin I live in Atherton, Wigan nr
>Manchester. I took the battery back to Halfords where they tested it and
>their machine said the battery needed replacing. So I now have a brand new
>battery. I do have one question arising from this, the original battery had
>a 3 year guarantee with 1 year left. The new battery is a 3 year the same
>but I was told that I can only have 1 year as that is what was left on the
>original. Which should it be, anyone know? Thanks once again to everyone who
>has helped.

sounds like a con. "Sale of goods" only gets you a year anyway, though...
so presumably the 3-year ones are some sort of additional thing, and it
might well have a limit of one replacement per 3 years or something like
that.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 

"> sounds like a con. "Sale of goods" only gets you a year anyway,
though...
> so presumably the 3-year ones are some sort of additional thing, and it
> might well have a limit of one replacement per 3 years or something like
> that.

Actually the Sale of Goods Act doesn't specify a period, it has to be of
merchantable quality and fit for purpose. For some items a 3 year like would
not be considered as reasonable and therefore breach the Act.
Shops/manufacturers would like us to believe that there is a one year
guarantee period, but will often cave in before legal action after much
longer than that.

Regards
Jeff


 
....and cyberwraith spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Ok this is the outcome, to start with Austin I live in Atherton,
> Wigan nr Manchester. I took the battery back to Halfords where they
> tested it and their machine said the battery needed replacing. So I
> now have a brand new battery. I do have one question arising from
> this, the original battery had a 3 year guarantee with 1 year left.
> The new battery is a 3 year the same but I was told that I can only
> have 1 year as that is what was left on the original. Which should it
> be, anyone know? Thanks once again to everyone who has helped.

Standard procedure IME. You bought it (say) two years ago with a 3-year
guarantee. It fails, so they replace it, but they don't give you a new
warranty, just agree to honour the balance of the old one.

That seems fair to me. You've had what you've paid for - a battery and a
3-year guarantee. In fact, you are a bit better off because you've got a
new battery again. If they didn't restrict the warranty like this and gave
you a fresh 3 years every time, guess how many batteries they would get back
at 2 years 11 months with mysterious "failures". The unscrupulous need
never buy a battery again.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:05:03 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

>> The new battery is a 3 year the same but I was told that I can
>> only have 1 year as that is what was left on the original. Which
>> should it be, anyone know?

Did you get a receipt for the new battery with todays date on it? B-)

> sounds like a con.

Well... you have not *bought* another battery (and thus warranty) why
should the old warranty restart with the replacement? It fairly common
practice that you only get the remains of the warranty with a
replacement.

> "Sale of goods" only gets you a year anyway, though...

Erm, I don't the Sale of Goods Act goes into that level of detail. Fit
"for the purpose" and "reasonable use" are terms it's more likely to
use. Things have wildly different life expectancies, the SoGA is a
very broad brush to insist on a 12 month guarantee on *everything*.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
I agree with the folks saying I got 3 years and should be happy, although if
continuous batteries did indeed fail after 1year and 11 months as this did,
then I would suggest quality control needs looking at. Anyway the Disco
starts nicely and I am a happy camper.


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...and cyberwraith spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>
> > Ok this is the outcome, to start with Austin I live in Atherton,
> > Wigan nr Manchester. I took the battery back to Halfords where they
> > tested it and their machine said the battery needed replacing. So I
> > now have a brand new battery. I do have one question arising from
> > this, the original battery had a 3 year guarantee with 1 year left.
> > The new battery is a 3 year the same but I was told that I can only
> > have 1 year as that is what was left on the original. Which should it
> > be, anyone know? Thanks once again to everyone who has helped.
>
> Standard procedure IME. You bought it (say) two years ago with a 3-year
> guarantee. It fails, so they replace it, but they don't give you a new
> warranty, just agree to honour the balance of the old one.
>
> That seems fair to me. You've had what you've paid for - a battery and a
> 3-year guarantee. In fact, you are a bit better off because you've got a
> new battery again. If they didn't restrict the warranty like this and gave
> you a fresh 3 years every time, guess how many batteries they would get back
> at 2 years 11 months with mysterious "failures". The unscrupulous need
> never buy a battery again.
>
>

Like QuickFit did some years ago - a "life-time" warranty on a Series II
exhaust - Gary goes back every 2 or three years for his free new exhaust!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
cyberwraith wrote:
> Ok this is the outcome, to start with Austin I live in Atherton,
> Wigan nr Manchester. I took the battery back to Halfords where they
> tested it and their machine said the battery needed replacing. So I
> now have a brand new battery. I do have one question arising from
> this, the original battery had a 3 year guarantee with 1 year left.
> The new battery is a 3 year the same but I was told that I can only
> have 1 year as that is what was left on the original. Which should it
> be, anyone know? Thanks once again to everyone who has helped.

1 year, to all intents and purposes it is the original battery. You only
bought one and thus one warranty.
Stoopid I know, but I believe that is the state. Had it once with an
exhaust, original with 1 yr warranty fitted because of MOT failue, failed
next year for same, but test was 1 day earlier, so got replacement under
warranty @ no cost. Sometimes worth getting a test before previous expiry!

--
If Your specification is vague or imprecise, you'll likely get what you
asked for not what you wanted!

He who says it cannot be done would be wise not to interrupt her doing
it.


 
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