Advice please

E

EMB

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #1

I've got the opportunity to move myself into the age of coil sprung
suspension by way of purchasing a 1987 90 station wagon powered by a 2.5
petrol. It's showing 110,000 miles on the clock, and by all reports
(only seen photos thus far) is fairly straight and has a rot free chassis.

AFAIK LR didn't sell any 2.5 petrol engined vehicles here, and even the
2.5D powered ones were a rarity - so I'm a bit lost with specs and value
of this thing.

Now come the questions. Apparently there's a bit of bearing noise in
the gearbox - which gearbox is fitted to it, and what's the likely list
of bits I'll need to shut it up? It also sounds like the 3rd gear
synchro is on the way out - I assume that's as straighforward as
replacing a synchro normally is.

Are there any known problems with the 2.5 petrol powered 90's? And as
this specimen seems to have a slightly tired engine, how well does the
gearing on a petrol vehicle suit a diesel conversion?

Also, what's a vehicle like this likely to sell for in the UK?


--
EMB

 

R

Richard

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #2

"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've got the opportunity to move myself into the age of coil sprung
> suspension by way of purchasing a 1987 90 station wagon powered by a 2.5
> petrol. It's showing 110,000 miles on the clock, and by all reports (only
> seen photos thus far) is fairly straight and has a rot free chassis.
>
> AFAIK LR didn't sell any 2.5 petrol engined vehicles here, and even the
> 2.5D powered ones were a rarity - so I'm a bit lost with specs and value
> of this thing.
>
> Now come the questions. Apparently there's a bit of bearing noise in the
> gearbox - which gearbox is fitted to it, and what's the likely list of
> bits I'll need to shut it up? It also sounds like the 3rd gear synchro is
> on the way out - I assume that's as straighforward as replacing a synchro
> normally is.
>
> Are there any known problems with the 2.5 petrol powered 90's? And as this
> specimen seems to have a slightly tired engine, how well does the gearing
> on a petrol vehicle suit a diesel conversion?
>
> Also, what's a vehicle like this likely to sell for in the UK?
>
>
> --
> EMB


My 1986 90 was a 2.5 petrol origonally. It now has a V8 and a Disco auto
gearbox. I think the gearbox I took out was a LT77?
Richard
www.richardsrovers.co.uk

 

W

[email protected]

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #3

EMB wrote:

> Now come the questions. Apparently there's a bit of bearing noise in
> the gearbox - which gearbox is fitted to it, and what's the likely list
> of bits I'll need to shut it up? It also sounds like the 3rd gear
> synchro is on the way out - I assume that's as straighforward as
> replacing a synchro normally is.

If the vehicle was built in 1987 then I'd be pretty sure it had a LT77.
Can't help with the noise but rebuild kits are readily available over
here which may help if you're stripping the gearbox and want to be sure
of having the parts required onhand.

> Are there any known problems with the 2.5 petrol powered 90's? And as
> this specimen seems to have a slightly tired engine, how well does the
> gearing on a petrol vehicle suit a diesel conversion?

I think yours should have a 1.4:1 LT230 transfer box as oppposed to 2.5
petrol 110s which had 1.67:1 boxes. Main box should have the same
gearing as was used with the 2.5TD so it's not horrendously bad gearing
for a diesel as long as it's not a tractor engine going in.

My father had a 2.5 petrol which was very very slow at all stages of
it's life. Mind you, that was in a LWB CSW which is a tad heavier.
I've never heard of any major problems with the engine (I believe he
only had a dizzy cap fail on him) but then I would imagine most 2.5
petrol 110s from the factory are now 200Tdis or something similar. As
far as value goes then they have to be some of the cheapest coil sprung
90/110s - nearly as thirsty as a V8 (comparable mileage if you have
light foot on a v8) but nowhere near the power.

I'd expect the vehicle in the UK to sell for about 1000UKP - up to
2500UKP if the chassis+body being really really good (assuming plenty
tax+test and the gearbox not deafening you).

Regards

William MacLeod

 

S

Steve

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #4

[email protected] wrote:

> If the vehicle was built in 1987 then I'd be pretty sure it had a LT77.
> Can't help with the noise but rebuild kits are readily available over
> here which may help if you're stripping the gearbox and want to be sure
> of having the parts required onhand.
>

How hard is gearbox overhaul on an LT77 ? Compared to an engine rebuild
say ? I'm toying with the idea of doing one, but wiser heads might prevail.

Steve

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #5

Steve wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> If the vehicle was built in 1987 then I'd be pretty sure it had a LT77.
>> Can't help with the noise but rebuild kits are readily available over
>> here which may help if you're stripping the gearbox and want to be sure
>> of having the parts required onhand.
>>
>
> How hard is gearbox overhaul on an LT77 ? Compared to an engine rebuild
> say ? I'm toying with the idea of doing one, but wiser heads might prevail.

As a general rule I'd say an engine is easier than a gearbox.


--
EMB

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #6

In message <[email protected]>
EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've got the opportunity to move myself into the age of coil sprung
> suspension by way of purchasing a 1987 90 station wagon powered by a 2.5
> petrol. It's showing 110,000 miles on the clock, and by all reports
> (only seen photos thus far) is fairly straight and has a rot free chassis.
>
> AFAIK LR didn't sell any 2.5 petrol engined vehicles here, and even the
> 2.5D powered ones were a rarity - so I'm a bit lost with specs and value
> of this thing.
>
> Now come the questions. Apparently there's a bit of bearing noise in
> the gearbox - which gearbox is fitted to it, and what's the likely list
> of bits I'll need to shut it up? It also sounds like the 3rd gear
> synchro is on the way out - I assume that's as straighforward as
> replacing a synchro normally is.

It's an LT77 - 50Axxxxxx

>
> Are there any known problems with the 2.5 petrol powered 90's? And as
> this specimen seems to have a slightly tired engine, how well does the
> gearing on a petrol vehicle suit a diesel conversion?
>

The 2.5 Petrol is a pretty good engine for a 90. Though only slightly
"better" on paper that the 2¼ Petrol, the difference when driving is
quite an eye opener. I sold one to a customer on the basis that he
would be doing a V8/Tdi conversion and he's never bothered.

The gearbox is the same as for the 2.5D (and 2.5TD I think). The transfer
box should be a 13D, but may be 20D - both are 1.6:1, the same for
all 4-cylinder non-Tdi 90's.

> Also, what's a vehicle like this likely to sell for in the UK?
>

Probably quite silly money - *any* 90 in any condition will sell
for a lot more that its "book" value at the moment (particulalrly a
Station Wagon or Truck Cab) - 90's a 110 Station Wagons are hard to find
at all, even in a rough state. So the value over there is probably not
going to bear much relationship the actual UK values.

>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #7

In message <[email protected]>
Steve <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > If the vehicle was built in 1987 then I'd be pretty sure it had a LT77.
> > Can't help with the noise but rebuild kits are readily available over
> > here which may help if you're stripping the gearbox and want to be sure
> > of having the parts required onhand.
> >
>
> How hard is gearbox overhaul on an LT77 ? Compared to an engine rebuild
> say ? I'm toying with the idea of doing one, but wiser heads might prevail.
>
> Steve

As long as you have a splitter/puller it's not too bad. Getting the collar
of the mainshaft to release the 5th gear extension case can be fun too.
The first one is likely to be a bit of a puzzler. We have a couple of
customers who now routinely rebuild boxes (unless completly knackered)
rather than but re-con's.

The details are in the earlier Range Rover Classic Haynes book - deleted
in books for later models.

Richard


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #8

On or around Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:08:21 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I've got the opportunity to move myself into the age of coil sprung
>suspension by way of purchasing a 1987 90 station wagon powered by a 2.5
>petrol. It's showing 110,000 miles on the clock, and by all reports
>(only seen photos thus far) is fairly straight and has a rot free chassis.
>
>AFAIK LR didn't sell any 2.5 petrol engined vehicles here, and even the
>2.5D powered ones were a rarity - so I'm a bit lost with specs and value
>of this thing.

The 2.5 petrol is a good engine for a 90. 's a bit underpowered in a 110,
but it's more powerful than a 2.5 NAD. Gets a bigger and better carb,
compared to the 2.25, which might account for most of the increase in power,
at that. ISTR they're supposed to do about 83 BHP.

>Now come the questions. Apparently there's a bit of bearing noise in
>the gearbox - which gearbox is fitted to it, and what's the likely list
>of bits I'll need to shut it up? It also sounds like the 3rd gear
>synchro is on the way out - I assume that's as straighforward as
>replacing a synchro normally is.

It'll most likely be a LT77 - in which case, apart from iffy synchros, your
main worry will be output shaft/T-box input gear wear, which has been
covered at length - the most practical cure is a recon box and a new gear...
>
>Are there any known problems with the 2.5 petrol powered 90's? And as
>this specimen seems to have a slightly tired engine, how well does the
>gearing on a petrol vehicle suit a diesel conversion?

I wouldn't assume a tired enigne from the mileage unless you know it from
other sources. The 4-cylinder petrol engines, provided they've had some
maintenance, last forever, almost.
>
>Also, what's a vehicle like this likely to sell for in the UK?

Not all that much, Petrol's too expensive.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #9

On or around Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:08:21 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:


one additional point: you can with a bit of fiddling fit the electronic
distributor from an O series petrol engine...

not sure if this was really worth it - but it stops all that arsing around
setting points and so forth
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]

 

S

Steve

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #10

beamendsltd wrote:

> As long as you have a splitter/puller it's not too bad. Getting the collar
> of the mainshaft to release the 5th gear extension case can be fun too.
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the comments. Do you need a specific size, or a range of
pullers ?
>
> The details are in the earlier Range Rover Classic Haynes book - deleted
> in books for later models.

I haven't seen much in the way of guidance, apart from the official
landrover Disco box manual, and that assumes a lot of fore-knowledge.

Steve

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #11

In message <[email protected]>
Steve <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
>
> > As long as you have a splitter/puller it's not too bad. Getting the collar
> > of the mainshaft to release the 5th gear extension case can be fun too.
> Hi Richard,
> Thanks for the comments. Do you need a specific size, or a range of
> pullers ?

The plates on mine something around 8" o/d with the nuts tightned. I only
use (have!) the one.

> >
> > The details are in the earlier Range Rover Classic Haynes book - deleted
> > in books for later models.
>
> I haven't seen much in the way of guidance, apart from the official
> landrover Disco box manual, and that assumes a lot of fore-knowledge.
>

The Haynes one is pretty good - certainly someone with your knowledge
shouldn't have too much difficulty - just note what went where!

> Steve

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #12

beamendsltd wrote:
> - just note what went where!
Ah yes, learned that one taking the engine to bits, or, more accurately,
putting it back together - hence the various extra bolt orders.....

I had a clever indexing system for all the various bags of parts - only
I lost the index.



Steve

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Dec 17, 2005

• #13

Steve Taylor wrote:
> beamendsltd wrote:
>
>> - just note what went where!
>
> Ah yes, learned that one taking the engine to bits, or, more accurately,
> putting it back together - hence the various extra bolt orders.....
>
> I had a clever indexing system for all the various bags of parts - only
> I lost the index.

When you disassemble a gearbox the easiest way to keep everything in
order is to thread the components of each shaft (bearings, bushes,
thrust, gears, synchros, etc) onto a piece of rod in the order (and
orientation) that you removed them. Then so long as the kids or the
apprentice don't knock the whole bloody lot off the bench it's not too
bad to get back together.


--
EMB

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Dec 18, 2005

• #14

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm considering my options - as the
engine seems a little tired I'll have to factor in repair or replacement
as well as a gearbox rebuild (prices thanks to Mr Beamends). Doing all
of that will probably stretch my budget a bit far so I'll probably give
it a miss (and wife will have kittens if I install another project in
the garage before I finish her kitchen).

--
EMB