Advice on Range Rover 2.5 DSE Auto 1997

Hi,
New here, and planning my first RangeRover purchase. I test drove my
prospective car today and would like an expert opinion on a few concerns
that arose during my test drive. First of all may I just clarify that I have
never driven a RangeRover or an Automatic before!

The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
standstill. Is this normal. As soon as it reached a decent speed - around 30
mph - the revs seemed to sound normal. The best way to describe it I think
would be to say this - it was like - if I was driving a manual car and
starting off with my foot slightly on the clutch. The garage said that this
was normal, and was because the engine was moving such a heavy car. I must
say - that once the car reached a decent speed, it cruised along
beautifully.

Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc etc. The
garage once again assured me that this was only a matter of resetting.
Nothing to worry about, and would be seen to before my purchase.

The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service history
and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares favourably
with similar spec models I have seen.

The garage is not known to me, so would like some assurance that these
issues above are as trivial as made out, or signs of something more serious.
If anyone could reply ASAP!! I am supposed to tell the garage tomorrow if I
want the car or not!

Gwyn

Gwyn Pleming wrote:

> New here, and planning my first RangeRover purchase. I test drove my
> prospective car today ...

Stop right there. When a dealer says 'Just one try. You can stop any
time you want." you realise he's pushing.

> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
> standstill.

It's two tons through a torque converter. Nothing is going to move that off
the line on tickover.

> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
> then also the sunroof

They've had the battery off and now you need to wind each window fully
open and fully closed so the endstop positions are re-memorised so it can do
a one-touch close. You learn this like resyncing the keys and memorising
the radio number - it just makes yyou part of the club.

Other points:
I'm not sure which side of the service from hell 97K is but it's somewhere
about there. It's when they do the air bags and things and I seem to
remember is the best part of a thousand quid.
Two tons of car eats petrol. On a long run I can creep my 96' HSE up to
20mpg if I'm very gentle with it but around town I'm lucky to make double
figures.
Rangies are sophisticated cars and have sophisticated faults (read
expensive). All the bug lights show up when you start it but watch for
them going out once you are up to speed.

nigelH

>
> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
> standstill.

Probably fine, the car is heavy and the Turbo D engine is alot less
powerful than my 4.6 petrol, you didn't have the box in "sport mode"?
It'll rev even higher then. Try taking you foot almost off the gas
pedal, the box should then change up, though you'll have little
acceleration.

> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
> then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc etc.

At some stage the battery has been removed or went flat, the end stops
need to be set on all the windows and sunroof, easy job, simply fully
open then fully close each window in turn untill the message centre
says "window set" .

> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service history
> and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares favourably
> with similar spec models I have seen.
> Gwyn

Sounds an average sort of price, expect a years warranty as well. Go
round the car and check EVERYTHING! All windows, sunroof, seats etc.
Then go over the operation of the air suspension. It should light all
lights when first started, than quickly rise and light only the 2nd
from top light, normal position. Even check the fuel filler flap
release button works. Ensure there is not a book type symbol on the
climate control display. Is there is, there's a fault. These have
loads of electronic stuff, which tend to work well, but can be
expensive to have fixed when they do go wrong, as I know! No major
problem areas to go over though, they have had a bad press, but in
reality go wrong only as much as any other sophisicated car. You're
buying an expensive car, it was nearly £50K when new, so expect to
keep your hand in your pocket while you own the car.

It may cost a little more to run than the average car, but then again,
it's not your average car!

Welcome to the world of Range Rovering! Good luck with your purchase.

Alan C

Can't thank you enough for this post. I did notice a book type symbol on the
climate control, and thought nothing of it. I have emailed the garage to ask
them to find out what is wrong. Could they mask this in any way? That is if
the book symbol has gone by next week when I see the car - Am I assured they
have fixed the fault, or is there a way to disable the alert?

Thanks again

Gwyn


On 8/8/04 12:42 am, in article
[email protected], "cutlea01"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
>> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
>> standstill.
>
> Probably fine, the car is heavy and the Turbo D engine is alot less
> powerful than my 4.6 petrol, you didn't have the box in "sport mode"?
> It'll rev even higher then. Try taking you foot almost off the gas
> pedal, the box should then change up, though you'll have little
> acceleration.
>
>> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
>> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
>> then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc etc.
>
> At some stage the battery has been removed or went flat, the end stops
> need to be set on all the windows and sunroof, easy job, simply fully
> open then fully close each window in turn untill the message centre
> says "window set" .
>
>> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service history
>> and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares favourably
>> with similar spec models I have seen.
>> Gwyn
>
> Sounds an average sort of price, expect a years warranty as well. Go
> round the car and check EVERYTHING! All windows, sunroof, seats etc.
> Then go over the operation of the air suspension. It should light all
> lights when first started, than quickly rise and light only the 2nd
> from top light, normal position. Even check the fuel filler flap
> release button works. Ensure there is not a book type symbol on the
> climate control display. Is there is, there's a fault. These have
> loads of electronic stuff, which tend to work well, but can be
> expensive to have fixed when they do go wrong, as I know! No major
> problem areas to go over though, they have had a bad press, but in
> reality go wrong only as much as any other sophisicated car. You're
> buying an expensive car, it was nearly £50K when new, so expect to
> keep your hand in your pocket while you own the car.
>
> It may cost a little more to run than the average car, but then again,
> it's not your average car!
>
> Welcome to the world of Range Rovering! Good luck with your purchase.
>
> Alan C

Gwyn Pleming wrote:
> Hi,
> <snip>
> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off
> from standstill. Is this normal. As soon as it reached a decent speed
> - around 30 mph - the revs seemed to sound normal. The best way to
> describe it I think would be to say this - it was like - if I was
> driving a manual car and starting off with my foot slightly on the
> clutch. The garage said that this was normal, and was because the
> engine was moving such a heavy car. I must say - that once the car
> reached a decent speed, it cruised along beautifully.

All automatics do this - quite normal.
>
> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error
> regarding the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they
> are not set, and then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH
> Window not set etc etc. The garage once again assured me that this
> was only a matter of resetting. Nothing to worry about, and would be
> seen to before my purchase.

Easy to reset - it's even in the owner handbook. It happens when the battery
is disconnected, or if (as happened to me) you try to wind the windows down
when they are siezed with ice. All the way down, all the way up, job done.
>
> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service
> history and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It
> compares favourably with similar spec models I have seen.

I agree with Nigel's comment here - check the service record and if a biggie
is due, ask the cost. You may be able to knock a few hundred off or come to
some kind of deal with the garage. Remember that, owing to the complexity
of the electronics, P38s LOVE main dealer servicing. Unless you are very
good with the multi-tester and have the correct manual, I would leave it to
them. The car will be more reliable, and will be worth more in the long
run, if it has a proper service history. Budget for servicing in your
plans, and you'll have a happy Rangie. Electronics aside, they are just big
Land Rovers and most of the mechanical stuff is pretty straightforward.
I've just replaced the front brake discs on mine, and it was the easiest on
any car I have had. When they are running well, there is no better car in
the world! The diesels are reckoned to be a bit underpowered for the size
of car, but then you will get closer to 30mpg than the V8, which will
average around 16/17.

On the issue of "masking" the fault messages, I doubt if this is possible,
unless they are very clever indeed. Usually the problem is the other way
around: the message centre shows a fault when there is no fault present.
The ECU stores fault codes and even a temporary fault which clears itself
will remain in the ECU memory until you visit the dealer to have it cleared.
My RR keeps telling me that the passenger door is open (but only if it's
been standing in the sun all day, never in the mornings or in cold weather
???), and I'm going to have to have it reset by the dealer. It's all part
of the fun.
>
> The garage is not known to me, so would like some assurance that these
> issues above are as trivial as made out, or signs of something more
> serious. If anyone could reply ASAP!! I am supposed to tell the
> garage tomorrow if I want the car or not!
>
> Gwyn

You're benefiting from the introduction of the new Range Rover, which has
brought prices of the P38 crashing down. A couple of years ago, that car
would have cost twice as much. You will never get more metal for your
money. However, don't rush into it. There are plenty out there if you're
not happy about this one.

Good luck.

--
Rich
4.6 HSE
3.5 trialler
Coming soon - Series 2a

Thanks very much. I appreciate all responses.

Gwyn




On 8/8/04 11:02 am, in article [email protected],
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Gwyn Pleming wrote:
>> Hi,
>> <snip>
>> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
>> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off
>> from standstill. Is this normal. As soon as it reached a decent speed
>> - around 30 mph - the revs seemed to sound normal. The best way to
>> describe it I think would be to say this - it was like - if I was
>> driving a manual car and starting off with my foot slightly on the
>> clutch. The garage said that this was normal, and was because the
>> engine was moving such a heavy car. I must say - that once the car
>> reached a decent speed, it cruised along beautifully.
>
> All automatics do this - quite normal.
>>
>> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error
>> regarding the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they
>> are not set, and then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH
>> Window not set etc etc. The garage once again assured me that this
>> was only a matter of resetting. Nothing to worry about, and would be
>> seen to before my purchase.
>
> Easy to reset - it's even in the owner handbook. It happens when the battery
> is disconnected, or if (as happened to me) you try to wind the windows down
> when they are siezed with ice. All the way down, all the way up, job done.
>>
>> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service
>> history and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It
>> compares favourably with similar spec models I have seen.
>
> I agree with Nigel's comment here - check the service record and if a biggie
> is due, ask the cost. You may be able to knock a few hundred off or come to
> some kind of deal with the garage. Remember that, owing to the complexity
> of the electronics, P38s LOVE main dealer servicing. Unless you are very
> good with the multi-tester and have the correct manual, I would leave it to
> them. The car will be more reliable, and will be worth more in the long
> run, if it has a proper service history. Budget for servicing in your
> plans, and you'll have a happy Rangie. Electronics aside, they are just big
> Land Rovers and most of the mechanical stuff is pretty straightforward.
> I've just replaced the front brake discs on mine, and it was the easiest on
> any car I have had. When they are running well, there is no better car in
> the world! The diesels are reckoned to be a bit underpowered for the size
> of car, but then you will get closer to 30mpg than the V8, which will
> average around 16/17.
>
> On the issue of "masking" the fault messages, I doubt if this is possible,
> unless they are very clever indeed. Usually the problem is the other way
> around: the message centre shows a fault when there is no fault present.
> The ECU stores fault codes and even a temporary fault which clears itself
> will remain in the ECU memory until you visit the dealer to have it cleared.
> My RR keeps telling me that the passenger door is open (but only if it's
> been standing in the sun all day, never in the mornings or in cold weather
> ???), and I'm going to have to have it reset by the dealer. It's all part
> of the fun.
>>
>> The garage is not known to me, so would like some assurance that these
>> issues above are as trivial as made out, or signs of something more
>> serious. If anyone could reply ASAP!! I am supposed to tell the
>> garage tomorrow if I want the car or not!
>>
>> Gwyn
>
> You're benefiting from the introduction of the new Range Rover, which has
> brought prices of the P38 crashing down. A couple of years ago, that car
> would have cost twice as much. You will never get more metal for your
> money. However, don't rush into it. There are plenty out there if you're
> not happy about this one.
>
> Good luck.

I had a problem with the climate control on my Rangie and the book symbol
came one every so often, but it wasn't there whe I shut the engine off and
started it again. It all seemed to be working ok though (not so now but
that's a different story!). Anyway it turned out to be a sensor which was
changed when I got it serived. It only cost a couple of quid for the
sensor, shame I can't say the same about the routine service though!

My advise for what it's worth if you have a good gut feeling about the car
then buy and enjoy a wonderful piece of Land Rover engineering. I've done
about 17k in my HSE in the past eight months and loved every minute of it!

Marcus

"Gwyn Pleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD3B3412.F88%[email protected]...
> Can't thank you enough for this post. I did notice a book type symbol on
the
> climate control, and thought nothing of it. I have emailed the garage to
ask
> them to find out what is wrong. Could they mask this in any way? That is
if
> the book symbol has gone by next week when I see the car - Am I assured
they
> have fixed the fault, or is there a way to disable the alert?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Gwyn
>
>
> On 8/8/04 12:42 am, in article
> [email protected], "cutlea01"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> >> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
> >> standstill.
> >
> > Probably fine, the car is heavy and the Turbo D engine is alot less
> > powerful than my 4.6 petrol, you didn't have the box in "sport mode"?
> > It'll rev even higher then. Try taking you foot almost off the gas
> > pedal, the box should then change up, though you'll have little
> > acceleration.
> >
> >> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error
regarding
> >> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set,
and
> >> then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc
etc.
> >
> > At some stage the battery has been removed or went flat, the end stops
> > need to be set on all the windows and sunroof, easy job, simply fully
> > open then fully close each window in turn untill the message centre
> > says "window set" .
> >
> >> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service
history
> >> and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares
favourably
> >> with similar spec models I have seen.
> >> Gwyn
> >
> > Sounds an average sort of price, expect a years warranty as well. Go
> > round the car and check EVERYTHING! All windows, sunroof, seats etc.
> > Then go over the operation of the air suspension. It should light all
> > lights when first started, than quickly rise and light only the 2nd
> > from top light, normal position. Even check the fuel filler flap
> > release button works. Ensure there is not a book type symbol on the
> > climate control display. Is there is, there's a fault. These have
> > loads of electronic stuff, which tend to work well, but can be
> > expensive to have fixed when they do go wrong, as I know! No major
> > problem areas to go over though, they have had a bad press, but in
> > reality go wrong only as much as any other sophisicated car. You're
> > buying an expensive car, it was nearly £50K when new, so expect to
> > keep your hand in your pocket while you own the car.
> >
> > It may cost a little more to run than the average car, but then again,
> > it's not your average car!
> >
> > Welcome to the world of Range Rovering! Good luck with your purchase.
> >
> > Alan C
>
>

Gwyn Pleming wrote:
>>
> Thanks for your post. But herein lies my main worry. The RR is being
> sold by a garage that is not a specialist 4x4 dealer. I worry that
> they do not have the diagnostic equipment needed to find or fix the
> issue. Any ideas?

You WILL need a main dealer, or a specialist who has access to the right
diagnostic kit (Rovacom or whatever). A "normal" car dealer, however posh,
won't have access to the black magic needed to keep a P38 Rangie running.
However, what they have told you so far seems to be correct and reasonable.
>
> Your website was also very good - but did make me a little concerned.
> I was a Defender driver for a long time a while ago, but always
> yearned for a RR. The thing is - my pockets aren't that deep!! Am I
> making a VERY big financial commitment in buying this car in terms of
> fixing faults? This might be a daft, unanswerable question, but how
> much should I expect to fork out over the course of a year - bearing
> in mind that I always service at between 6000-8000 miles.

Service every 12000 miles - cost between £300 and £600 approx depending on
what is done. That's a main dealer - non-franchised specialist should be
cheaper.

> There is a
> very good Land Rover specialist (non - dealership) garage near where
> I live (so I can expect cheaper servicing etc I suppose). How
> unreliable are the electronics - as they seem to be the main issue?

This is where you are taking a gamble, to be honest. Some P38s are nothing
but trouble, others seem to be brilliant. I bought mine from a main dealer
(probably paid about £500 over for the privilege) but it came with a 12
month warranty. I used the warranty period to get all the niggles fixed.
There were quite a few, but nothing major. Worst things were a new HEVAC
unit for the climate control & heated seats, and a new aircon compressor.
The rest were niggles. Electronics and the air suspension seem to be the
main areas of complaint. If you use an LR specialist, then you shopuld be
OK. Are you getting a warranty? At that price, you'd be daft to buy
without.
>
> I do so want a Rangie!!
>
> Gwyn

I know how you feel. But remember, this was a £50K car when it was new.
Don't expect Micra running costs. Go into it with your eyes open (asking
this group was a good idea) and you'll love it. There are plenty out there,
and prices are falling, so don't be afraid to look elsewhere if this one
gives you cold feet.



--
--
Rich

Land Rovers
Boat
Dog
Wife
Kids - in that order

> Thanks for your post. But herein lies my main worry. The RR is being sold by
> a garage that is not a specialist 4x4 dealer. I worry that they do not have
> the diagnostic equipment needed to find or fix the issue. Any ideas?

The official tool may not be available to the garage, but I'd suggest
you check with them that they will clear all faults before sale, and
specify in the warranty what is/is not covered. On a car this
expensive there should be a fully comprehensive warranty that will
cover everything anyway. It's up to the dealer to repair any faults
covered by warranty as they develope, and if they themselves can't
then they will arrange for someone who can. All independant Land
Rover garages as well as the main dealers can use the computer
diagnostic software to assertain and locate the faults. If your
garage can not give any assurances on their after sales support of
this type of vehicle, walk away! It may be hard to do, but don't buy
a car that the garage can't service! You're paying a premium for
buying from a dealer, you could buy the exact same model privately for
less.

> I do so want a Rangie!!

There are hundreds out there! Keep looking! You probably won't find
one in your price range from a Land Rover dealer though, so you're
commited to buying from a general dealer (like I did, who couldn't
service the vehicle, then went bust!), or privately, but the Rangie is
a wonderful car, don't let the thought of really expensive fault
repairs put you off. As I said previously, they actually don't go
wrong that often, no more so than other modern cars anyway! As to
servicing costs, officially seviced every 12,000 miles, though please
do an oil/filter at every 6, you engine will love you. Check with
your independant for servicing costs if you're worried first though.

Alan C

>>>>> "Gwyn" == Gwyn Pleming <[email protected]> writes:

Gwyn> Thanks for your post. But herein lies my main worry. The RR
Gwyn> is being sold by a garage that is not a specialist 4x4
Gwyn> dealer. I worry that they do not have the diagnostic
Gwyn> equipment needed to find or fix the issue. Any ideas?

Well, since you can get the diagnostic software for the P38A for
around 1200 quid, it is possible to consider it as part of the initial
investment.

Gwyn> Your website was also very good - but did make me a little
Gwyn> concerned. Am I making a VERY big financial
Gwyn> commitment in buying this car in terms of fixing faults?

You could be, if you're unlucky. You don't need the diagnostic kit
for many things - just time and patience, and an understanding of the
vehicle. So if you can do basic stuff yourself, all well and good.
But there are things that can go wrong unexpectedly that can hit you
for a 4 figure repair bill. If you can't handle something like this
coming along (or at least be able to live with the vehicle off the
road for a few days while you research the cheapest solution), then I
would say to think very hard about buying one.

I don't want to put you off - they are fantastic cars. But they can
also be an expensive pastime.

AndyC

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andy Cunningham | Check out www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| http://www.p38a.co.uk - Everything you wanted to know |
| about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, there's going to be one
big-ass fight over where to set the thermostat." -- Jim Rosenberg

As Andy will confirm, there are a number of sites that can provide help and
articles on servicing the P38A, e.g., Andy's pages or http://rangerovers.net.

There are three good RR fora, the Rangies.com forum, the RRO forum and the the
MotorCars Ltd forum.

Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, Australia
1995 Range Rover HSE 4.6 Litre V8


"AndyC the WB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >>>>> "Gwyn" == Gwyn Pleming <[email protected]> writes:
>
> Gwyn> Thanks for your post. But herein lies my main worry. The RR
> Gwyn> is being sold by a garage that is not a specialist 4x4
> Gwyn> dealer. I worry that they do not have the diagnostic
> Gwyn> equipment needed to find or fix the issue. Any ideas?
>
> Well, since you can get the diagnostic software for the P38A for
> around 1200 quid, it is possible to consider it as part of the initial
> investment.
>
> Gwyn> Your website was also very good - but did make me a little
> Gwyn> concerned. Am I making a VERY big financial
> Gwyn> commitment in buying this car in terms of fixing faults?
>
> You could be, if you're unlucky. You don't need the diagnostic kit
> for many things - just time and patience, and an understanding of the
> vehicle. So if you can do basic stuff yourself, all well and good.
> But there are things that can go wrong unexpectedly that can hit you
> for a 4 figure repair bill. If you can't handle something like this
> coming along (or at least be able to live with the vehicle off the
> road for a few days while you research the cheapest solution), then I
> would say to think very hard about buying one.
>
> I don't want to put you off - they are fantastic cars. But they can
> also be an expensive pastime.
>
> AndyC
>
> --
> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Andy Cunningham | Check out www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk |
> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | http://www.p38a.co.uk - Everything you wanted to know |
> | about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |
> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> "If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, there's going to be one
> big-ass fight over where to set the thermostat." -- Jim Rosenberg

Gwyn Pleming wrote:
> Hi,
> <snip>
> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off
> from standstill. Is this normal. As soon as it reached a decent speed
> - around 30 mph - the revs seemed to sound normal. The best way to
> describe it I think would be to say this - it was like - if I was
> driving a manual car and starting off with my foot slightly on the
> clutch. The garage said that this was normal, and was because the
> engine was moving such a heavy car. I must say - that once the car
> reached a decent speed, it cruised along beautifully.

All automatics do this - quite normal.
>
> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error
> regarding the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they
> are not set, and then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH
> Window not set etc etc. The garage once again assured me that this
> was only a matter of resetting. Nothing to worry about, and would be
> seen to before my purchase.

Easy to reset - it's even in the owner handbook. It happens when the battery
is disconnected, or if (as happened to me) you try to wind the windows down
when they are siezed with ice. All the way down, all the way up, job done.
>
> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service
> history and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It
> compares favourably with similar spec models I have seen.

I agree with Nigel's comment here - check the service record and if a biggie
is due, ask the cost. You may be able to knock a few hundred off or come to
some kind of deal with the garage. Remember that, owing to the complexity
of the electronics, P38s LOVE main dealer servicing. Unless you are very
good with the multi-tester and have the correct manual, I would leave it to
them. The car will be more reliable, and will be worth more in the long
run, if it has a proper service history. Budget for servicing in your
plans, and you'll have a happy Rangie. Electronics aside, they are just big
Land Rovers and most of the mechanical stuff is pretty straightforward.
I've just replaced the front brake discs on mine, and it was the easiest on
any car I have had. When they are running well, there is no better car in
the world! The diesels are reckoned to be a bit underpowered for the size
of car, but then you will get closer to 30mpg than the V8, which will
average around 16/17.

On the issue of "masking" the fault messages, I doubt if this is possible,
unless they are very clever indeed. Usually the problem is the other way
around: the message centre shows a fault when there is no fault present.
The ECU stores fault codes and even a temporary fault which clears itself
will remain in the ECU memory until you visit the dealer to have it cleared.
My RR keeps telling me that the passenger door is open (but only if it's
been standing in the sun all day, never in the mornings or in cold weather
???), and I'm going to have to have it reset by the dealer. It's all part
of the fun.
>
> The garage is not known to me, so would like some assurance that these
> issues above are as trivial as made out, or signs of something more
> serious. If anyone could reply ASAP!! I am supposed to tell the
> garage tomorrow if I want the car or not!
>
> Gwyn

You're benefiting from the introduction of the new Range Rover, which has
brought prices of the P38 crashing down. A couple of years ago, that car
would have cost twice as much. You will never get more metal for your
money. However, don't rush into it. There are plenty out there if you're
not happy about this one.

Good luck.

--
Rich
4.6 HSE
3.5 trialler
Coming soon - Series 2a

Gwyn Pleming wrote:

> New here, and planning my first RangeRover purchase. I test drove my
> prospective car today ...

Stop right there. When a dealer says 'Just one try. You can stop any
time you want." you realise he's pushing.

> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
> standstill.

It's two tons through a torque converter. Nothing is going to move that off
the line on tickover.

> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
> then also the sunroof

They've had the battery off and now you need to wind each window fully
open and fully closed so the endstop positions are re-memorised so it can do
a one-touch close. You learn this like resyncing the keys and memorising
the radio number - it just makes yyou part of the club.

Other points:
I'm not sure which side of the service from hell 97K is but it's somewhere
about there. It's when they do the air bags and things and I seem to
remember is the best part of a thousand quid.
Two tons of car eats petrol. On a long run I can creep my 96' HSE up to
20mpg if I'm very gentle with it but around town I'm lucky to make double
figures.
Rangies are sophisticated cars and have sophisticated faults (read
expensive). All the bug lights show up when you start it but watch for
them going out once you are up to speed.

nigelH

>
> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
> standstill.

Probably fine, the car is heavy and the Turbo D engine is alot less
powerful than my 4.6 petrol, you didn't have the box in "sport mode"?
It'll rev even higher then. Try taking you foot almost off the gas
pedal, the box should then change up, though you'll have little
acceleration.

> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
> then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc etc.

At some stage the battery has been removed or went flat, the end stops
need to be set on all the windows and sunroof, easy job, simply fully
open then fully close each window in turn untill the message centre
says "window set" .

> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service history
> and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares favourably
> with similar spec models I have seen.
> Gwyn

Sounds an average sort of price, expect a years warranty as well. Go
round the car and check EVERYTHING! All windows, sunroof, seats etc.
Then go over the operation of the air suspension. It should light all
lights when first started, than quickly rise and light only the 2nd
from top light, normal position. Even check the fuel filler flap
release button works. Ensure there is not a book type symbol on the
climate control display. Is there is, there's a fault. These have
loads of electronic stuff, which tend to work well, but can be
expensive to have fixed when they do go wrong, as I know! No major
problem areas to go over though, they have had a bad press, but in
reality go wrong only as much as any other sophisicated car. You're
buying an expensive car, it was nearly £50K when new, so expect to
keep your hand in your pocket while you own the car.

It may cost a little more to run than the average car, but then again,
it's not your average car!

Welcome to the world of Range Rovering! Good luck with your purchase.

Alan C

Can't thank you enough for this post. I did notice a book type symbol on the
climate control, and thought nothing of it. I have emailed the garage to ask
them to find out what is wrong. Could they mask this in any way? That is if
the book symbol has gone by next week when I see the car - Am I assured they
have fixed the fault, or is there a way to disable the alert?

Thanks again

Gwyn


On 8/8/04 12:42 am, in article
[email protected], "cutlea01"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
>> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
>> standstill.
>
> Probably fine, the car is heavy and the Turbo D engine is alot less
> powerful than my 4.6 petrol, you didn't have the box in "sport mode"?
> It'll rev even higher then. Try taking you foot almost off the gas
> pedal, the box should then change up, though you'll have little
> acceleration.
>
>> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error regarding
>> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set, and
>> then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc etc.
>
> At some stage the battery has been removed or went flat, the end stops
> need to be set on all the windows and sunroof, easy job, simply fully
> open then fully close each window in turn untill the message centre
> says "window set" .
>
>> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service history
>> and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares favourably
>> with similar spec models I have seen.
>> Gwyn
>
> Sounds an average sort of price, expect a years warranty as well. Go
> round the car and check EVERYTHING! All windows, sunroof, seats etc.
> Then go over the operation of the air suspension. It should light all
> lights when first started, than quickly rise and light only the 2nd
> from top light, normal position. Even check the fuel filler flap
> release button works. Ensure there is not a book type symbol on the
> climate control display. Is there is, there's a fault. These have
> loads of electronic stuff, which tend to work well, but can be
> expensive to have fixed when they do go wrong, as I know! No major
> problem areas to go over though, they have had a bad press, but in
> reality go wrong only as much as any other sophisicated car. You're
> buying an expensive car, it was nearly £50K when new, so expect to
> keep your hand in your pocket while you own the car.
>
> It may cost a little more to run than the average car, but then again,
> it's not your average car!
>
> Welcome to the world of Range Rovering! Good luck with your purchase.
>
> Alan C

Thanks very much. I appreciate all responses.

Gwyn




On 8/8/04 11:02 am, in article [email protected],
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Gwyn Pleming wrote:
>> Hi,
>> <snip>
>> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
>> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off
>> from standstill. Is this normal. As soon as it reached a decent speed
>> - around 30 mph - the revs seemed to sound normal. The best way to
>> describe it I think would be to say this - it was like - if I was
>> driving a manual car and starting off with my foot slightly on the
>> clutch. The garage said that this was normal, and was because the
>> engine was moving such a heavy car. I must say - that once the car
>> reached a decent speed, it cruised along beautifully.
>
> All automatics do this - quite normal.
>>
>> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error
>> regarding the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they
>> are not set, and then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH
>> Window not set etc etc. The garage once again assured me that this
>> was only a matter of resetting. Nothing to worry about, and would be
>> seen to before my purchase.
>
> Easy to reset - it's even in the owner handbook. It happens when the battery
> is disconnected, or if (as happened to me) you try to wind the windows down
> when they are siezed with ice. All the way down, all the way up, job done.
>>
>> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service
>> history and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It
>> compares favourably with similar spec models I have seen.
>
> I agree with Nigel's comment here - check the service record and if a biggie
> is due, ask the cost. You may be able to knock a few hundred off or come to
> some kind of deal with the garage. Remember that, owing to the complexity
> of the electronics, P38s LOVE main dealer servicing. Unless you are very
> good with the multi-tester and have the correct manual, I would leave it to
> them. The car will be more reliable, and will be worth more in the long
> run, if it has a proper service history. Budget for servicing in your
> plans, and you'll have a happy Rangie. Electronics aside, they are just big
> Land Rovers and most of the mechanical stuff is pretty straightforward.
> I've just replaced the front brake discs on mine, and it was the easiest on
> any car I have had. When they are running well, there is no better car in
> the world! The diesels are reckoned to be a bit underpowered for the size
> of car, but then you will get closer to 30mpg than the V8, which will
> average around 16/17.
>
> On the issue of "masking" the fault messages, I doubt if this is possible,
> unless they are very clever indeed. Usually the problem is the other way
> around: the message centre shows a fault when there is no fault present.
> The ECU stores fault codes and even a temporary fault which clears itself
> will remain in the ECU memory until you visit the dealer to have it cleared.
> My RR keeps telling me that the passenger door is open (but only if it's
> been standing in the sun all day, never in the mornings or in cold weather
> ???), and I'm going to have to have it reset by the dealer. It's all part
> of the fun.
>>
>> The garage is not known to me, so would like some assurance that these
>> issues above are as trivial as made out, or signs of something more
>> serious. If anyone could reply ASAP!! I am supposed to tell the
>> garage tomorrow if I want the car or not!
>>
>> Gwyn
>
> You're benefiting from the introduction of the new Range Rover, which has
> brought prices of the P38 crashing down. A couple of years ago, that car
> would have cost twice as much. You will never get more metal for your
> money. However, don't rush into it. There are plenty out there if you're
> not happy about this one.
>
> Good luck.

I had a problem with the climate control on my Rangie and the book symbol
came one every so often, but it wasn't there whe I shut the engine off and
started it again. It all seemed to be working ok though (not so now but
that's a different story!). Anyway it turned out to be a sensor which was
changed when I got it serived. It only cost a couple of quid for the
sensor, shame I can't say the same about the routine service though!

My advise for what it's worth if you have a good gut feeling about the car
then buy and enjoy a wonderful piece of Land Rover engineering. I've done
about 17k in my HSE in the past eight months and loved every minute of it!

Marcus

"Gwyn Pleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD3B3412.F88%[email protected]...
> Can't thank you enough for this post. I did notice a book type symbol on
the
> climate control, and thought nothing of it. I have emailed the garage to
ask
> them to find out what is wrong. Could they mask this in any way? That is
if
> the book symbol has gone by next week when I see the car - Am I assured
they
> have fixed the fault, or is there a way to disable the alert?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Gwyn
>
>
> On 8/8/04 12:42 am, in article
> [email protected], "cutlea01"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The RR drove beautifully on a motorway and around the town whilst test
> >> driving, but I noticed that the revs seemed high when starting off from
> >> standstill.
> >
> > Probably fine, the car is heavy and the Turbo D engine is alot less
> > powerful than my 4.6 petrol, you didn't have the box in "sport mode"?
> > It'll rev even higher then. Try taking you foot almost off the gas
> > pedal, the box should then change up, though you'll have little
> > acceleration.
> >
> >> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an error
regarding
> >> the windows. It goes around all windows stating that they are not set,
and
> >> then also the sunroof i.e. RH Window not set, LH Window not set etc
etc.
> >
> > At some stage the battery has been removed or went flat, the end stops
> > need to be set on all the windows and sunroof, easy job, simply fully
> > open then fully close each window in turn untill the message centre
> > says "window set" .
> >
> >> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full service
history
> >> and only one owner from new. It is priced at £11,000. It compares
favourably
> >> with similar spec models I have seen.
> >> Gwyn
> >
> > Sounds an average sort of price, expect a years warranty as well. Go
> > round the car and check EVERYTHING! All windows, sunroof, seats etc.
> > Then go over the operation of the air suspension. It should light all
> > lights when first started, than quickly rise and light only the 2nd
> > from top light, normal position. Even check the fuel filler flap
> > release button works. Ensure there is not a book type symbol on the
> > climate control display. Is there is, there's a fault. These have
> > loads of electronic stuff, which tend to work well, but can be
> > expensive to have fixed when they do go wrong, as I know! No major
> > problem areas to go over though, they have had a bad press, but in
> > reality go wrong only as much as any other sophisicated car. You're
> > buying an expensive car, it was nearly £50K when new, so expect to
> > keep your hand in your pocket while you own the car.
> >
> > It may cost a little more to run than the average car, but then again,
> > it's not your average car!
> >
> > Welcome to the world of Range Rovering! Good luck with your purchase.
> >
> > Alan C
>
>

Gwyn
`

Gwyn> manual car and starting off with my foot slightly on the
Gwyn> clutch. The garage said that this was normal, and was
Gwyn> because the engine was moving such a heavy car. I must say -
Gwyn> that once the car reached a decent speed, it cruised along
Gwyn> beautifully.

I'll let someone more qualifed to talk about automatics behave this.
You will get more torque slip at lower speed, but I don't know enough
to say wether this is normal or not.

Gwyn> Secondly - When turning off the engine the car displays an
Gwyn> error regarding the windows. It goes around all windows
Gwyn> stating that they are not set, and then also the sunroof

Should be just a case of resetting. This trivial: fully open, then
fully close each window in turn, holding it closed on the switch until
it bleeps at you and says "Window Set". The go on to the next one.
If you get lots of noises at the end of travel instead of "Window Set"
then you have a problem that needs investingating.

Gwyn> The RR is a 1997 model with 97K on the clock. It has full
Gwyn> service history and only one owner from new. It is priced at
Gwyn> £11,000. It compares favourably with similar spec models I
Gwyn> have seen.

SOunds like a reaonable deal considering the condition.



--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andy Cunningham | Check out www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| http://www.p38a.co.uk - Everything you wanted to know |
| about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, there's going to be one
big-ass fight over where to set the thermostat." -- Jim Rosenberg

>>>>> "Gwyn" == Gwyn Pleming <[email protected]> writes:

Gwyn> Can't thank you enough for this post. I did notice a book
Gwyn> type symbol on the climate control, and thought nothing of
Gwyn> it. I have emailed the garage to ask them to find out what
Gwyn> is wrong. Could they mask this in any way? That is if the
Gwyn> book symbol has gone by next week when I see the car - Am I
Gwyn> assured they have fixed the fault, or is there a way to
Gwyn> disable the alert?


Any similarity between this symbol and a cheque book is not entirely
coincidental. You can turn it off in seconds with a diagnostic
system but it will reappear as soon as the fault recurrs. Could be
just needing a regas (for fifty quid or so), or it could be something
a whole lot more expensive. The fault codes will give you some idea.

Ask them to confirm which faults were reported (ideally with the
printout from the diagnostic software) and I'll give you a better idea
what the problem might be.

Unfortunately there is an element of interpretation with all of the
fault codes..


Andy
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andy Cunningham | Check out www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| http://www.p38a.co.uk - Everything you wanted to know |
| about the P38A Range Rover but were afraid to ask. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, there's going to be one
big-ass fight over where to set the thermostat." -- Jim Rosenberg

> Ask them to confirm which faults were reported (ideally with the
> printout from the diagnostic software) and I'll give you a better idea
> what the problem might be.
>
> Unfortunately there is an element of interpretation with all of the
> fault codes..
>

Thanks for your post. But herein lies my main worry. The RR is being sold by
a garage that is not a specialist 4x4 dealer. I worry that they do not have
the diagnostic equipment needed to find or fix the issue. Any ideas?

Your website was also very good - but did make me a little concerned. I was
a Defender driver for a long time a while ago, but always yearned for a RR.
The thing is - my pockets aren't that deep!! Am I making a VERY big
financial commitment in buying this car in terms of fixing faults? This
might be a daft, unanswerable question, but how much should I expect to fork
out over the course of a year - bearing in mind that I always service at
between 6000-8000 miles. There is a very good Land Rover specialist (non -
dealership) garage near where I live (so I can expect cheaper servicing etc
I suppose). How unreliable are the electronics - as they seem to be the main
issue?

I do so want a Rangie!!

Gwyn