Disco 2 A few issues proving difficult to resolve depite many new parts

I could really use some help with this Discovery 2 TD5 now if anyone can confirm my suspicions / help me on a few issues below

1) It's always had a slight Engine Vibration, can be felt most when hand on Auto Shifter Stick, or Elbow on Door Card ?? The Trans Mounts looked OK, so I ordered a pair of Engine Mounts and yes, when inspected the old ones were sitting down tight on the rubber inside, so I duly replaced them with new ............................ No noticeable difference despite the new ones not sitting down on the rubber, (as observed through the small hole underneath 'em) .............................
Vibe alters, worse some days, less others, it's definitely Engine speed related, can feel it in Park at idle and increases frequency when I rev the nuts off it.
I've looked at the Harmonic Balancer Pulley, what I can actually see of it looks OK, it doesn't wobble when running.

2) It still has the Steering Wander which it always had even with the original leaky Steering Box, that was the first part I replaced on it !! When going along a straight road with Camber changes / bumps / undulations and more so below around 50mph it's worse, I haven't tried yet but I'd imagine with a Trailer on the back it would sling you from one side of the road to the other with a pendulum action Radius Arm Bushes and Rear Watts / Front Panhard look OK !!
This is despite having changed everything from Steering Coupling, Steering Box (was leaking), Steering damper (Terrafirma), all Linkages and Ball Joints, Tyres are new good budget make (not chinese poop), and Tracking is fine. This feels like when they have a seized Steering Coupling, self centring is barely detectable from just off straight ahead position especially at slow road speed. IDK
It has had a lift kit fitted by PO, he is now deceased and due to vague info of exactly what ride height it should be I'm not quite sure what height it should be, (No ACE, No Air, Coil Springs all round)
When measured from Wheel centre to Wheel arch it measures 530mm front and 540mm rear ....................
Some say a 50mm lift doesn't affect Steering others say it does, this is the first D2 I have owned / worked on. I had a 2000 TD5 Defender 110 which drove way way better than this D2
So as I've already spent a whole bunch on this thing, I might as well chuck more at it now ........................
I have ordered Terrafirma All Terrain Shock Absorbers (suitable for std to +50mm height), also ordered brand new std height springs.

3) It doesn't seem as lively as it should, although I don't ever recall driving a D2 Manual or Auto before this one, mine is Auto 4 speed ZF. It seems very sluggish from 0 - 45 ish, then seems to go better as speed increases. Brand new Brakes F&R Calipers included, nothing binding all working perfectly including Handbrake. It has no Cat or Centre Silencer, 1999 Model year.
Also I've got a brand new Radiator and a good used Intercooler here, as whilst the Radiator is not leaking, both are showing significant signs of "West Highlands Corrosion", the Intercooler has Oil Weep signs, so is probably losing small amont of boost, although it's not hissing etc ?? Engine starts instantly on a cold morning and has just had Full service, doesn't misfire, Idles nicely definitely running well on all 5, but it does not feel as lively like my TD5 Defender did .................
OK, so Defender was 5 spd Manual, Disco2 is 4speed ZF Auto, but surely it don't make that much difference ?
Engine also had new MAF (and Fuel / Air Filter when serviced) and is not putting up any fault codes or light. IDK ?????????????????

Any suggestions would be very welcome

Vibration on mine was cured after an oil change. So it was either the centrifugal filter or fully synthetic oil.
What maf did you fit? Is it a 15p? Map been cleaned? Have you checked boost hoses for leaks? Fuel pump noisy? Id replace a leaking IC. What size tyres is it on?

Thank You so much

Engine and Trans are from 80k Miler, Oil was pretty clean when I got it, I changed Oil both Oil Filters and used Valvoline Oil specifically for the TD5, plus Air Filter and Fuel Filter. It has done around 1500 miles now Oil is still clean.
The vibe definitely feels like a Mounting gonna try Transmission Mounts this weekend.

MAF was from one of my factors, dare I say it "SMP Intermotor" yeah yeah I know, but it is reading and wasn't with the old one, fault code gone no other codes. Yes Intercooler and Radiator are here, yet to be fitted, hopefully along with new Transmission Mounts this coming weekend. Haven't looked at MAP yet, good call Will try and find some time to at least look at MAP Data this week and give it and its 'ole a clean out

No visible signs of Boost Hose leakage, I haven't put the leak tester on it and might just buy a set of Silicone Hoses before the weekend if a large expected payment comes in, if not I will leak test the whole chebang after fitting the IC and Rad

Fuel Pump sweet, primed up the system quick after Filter Change.

Tyres are 235 / 70 x 16 on factory Wheels, almost new but have done at least 2000 miles now. Tracking bob on on my Laser Gauges, Tyres show no signs of scrubbing.

Bit embarrasing, and I've been wondering this ................ How do I tell if it is 15P or the other one ?????????? Sorry lol, but never had a Disco 2, most recent Landy was around 5 years ago, a 38k mile TD5 Defender 110 that never had any Mech issues except the Starter Solenoid Terminal and a load of welding
In my defence I can tell ya anything you need about a Merc as they are my core business, along with a bunch of other old poop cars

Thanks for replying to my questions, I was beginning to think I'd peed folks off somehow

How does it run with the MAF disconnected, any noticeable improvement? Also have you checked your wastegate for sticking?

It ran worse with MAF failed, haven't tried disconnecting might get time later to try that

No haven't checked Wastegate yet, very good call, will test it and its Actuator / Vac circuit later, i do know all pipes are connected as I have done a ton of work on the old girl so far and been looking at stuff

Do you know how I find if it is 15P etc ?
if not I'll do some google / forum searching, sorry, I'm not being lazy, just been very busy with work, family issues and other stuff, so not spent much time on Disco last few weeks

Thank you for the reply

Hi, a quick bump, I am busy work wise atm so won't be back on D15KOE until Friday for a long weekend to Monday evening

I have almost cured the Wandering after reading some posts on here ...............

Embarrased to say it but I let significant air outta the rear Tyres (were at 36 psi), and a couple of PSI out of the fronts (were 30 psi), now running 28 psi front and 29 rear, the wandering is now barely perceptable, in fact I now think (hope) it will be totally cured this weekend, as I have Terrafirma Standard / + 50mm "All Terrain Shocks" and Standard Height Springs here to go on the old beastie It seems to me after a good drive yesterday that what I am now feeling is body rock and roll, I can now feel the Steering self centre (Camber) when just off straight ahead, although it still feels a tad 'weak' so I reckon by going to stock ride height I will get my Camber angle back to where it should be and thus improve the self centering and having decent new shocks to replace the manky looking old sh1te, plus dropping the Disco down to stock height must surely help with the rock and rolling, (Car has no ACE but good Rollbars, Links and Bushes

Will know by Monday next

Engine wise, I have new I/C and Radiator to go in plus hopefully the new Silicon Boost Hose set will be here before the weekend

Didn't get a chance to check wastegate yet, but on the to do list

Trans Mounts should also be here by the w/e

Will update soon, and once again thank you both for your pointers

Dave2302 said:

Do you know how I find if it is 15P etc ?

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Do try running with MAF disconnected just to check if your new one is up to the job as many aftermarket ones are not apparently.
Your engine number found near/behind the centrifugal filter will start 10P or 15P. 2002/facelift was the changeover year.

Thank you, and yes I will try disconnecting the MAF, I bought the cheapie Intermotor from one of my Factors, generally I have had issues with intermotor especially Crank Sensors, ABS Sensors and Lambdas, I don't usually buy the sh1te now However, when I first got D15KOE I cleared out my project cash pot buying all new Brakes, Steering Box plus other Steering parts and Suspension bits etc etc etc, so I thought I'd just bung on a cheapie first with the view that if the Code went away, (it did), then later on I can fit a Genuine or OEM Have had a good few weeks earning now so if needs be that is now an option

My Disco is a 1999 model pre facelift, but has had the Engine and Auto Trans replaced with much newer / 80 k miler, I just looked where you said and it is a 15P94xxx Motor is that good or bad ?

The V5C finally turned up yesterday, I just looked on that, PO didn't change the Engine Number when he fitted it, it is still showing 10P .............. Think I'll let sleeping dogs lie on that one for now, just in case.
He was an honest guy as most local Highlanders are, but I have no idea where he bought that running gear, and as he died no way of finding out
I do have a kinda couldn't care less 'drinking buddy' at the local cop shop, will tell him I've seen an Engine for sale on Gumtree and get him to run the number first before changing it with DVLA, if **** hits the fan the advert can always have miraculously disappeared

I think the vehicle did stand around a while before PO's wife gave it to my friend, whom I did the swap with for my Pug Expert Van, so perhaps the Wastegate is seized, the Calipers certainly were lol

I best go finish off the weeks work now, Tiguan 4 Motion for Rear Brakes and a Passat TDI with broken Dipstick Tube, I'll clear those 2 today then I got small job Friday Morning, new heated Washer Jet assembly on a BMW218d which I can do outside , so can get Discovery on the lift tonight until Monday evening Loadsa bits here now

I will also tidy up the rear Chassis welding whilst the Springs and Shocks are out of the way, there is a couple of small areas where the Welding is not continuous and I'm very anal about stuff like that, well very anal about anything on all vehicles

Thank you once again for your help

The 15p is more sensitive to MAF outputs as it uses a different type of engine management map. A genuine maf is recommended therefore on a 15p. As has been said, disconnecting the maf puts a generic figure in the ecu calculations and it should run better, if your MAF is guff. It will display a symptom of limp mode for 3 secs on shifting to D, with MAF completely knackered on a 15p. Clean the map sensor and check aap sensor is ok in air box.

Thank You for the detailed reply which I do fully understand

I will get a look at that later today, I assume (eek) an aap is Ambient Air Pressure like on some other vehicles ? Just wanted to be sure hence the (eek) as we all know what assumption is the muvver of

Just a small update on this ...............

I haven't got to the Engine yet, have replaced both front Shock Absorbers (Terrafirma All Terrain and standard height front Springs), also stripped the rear end Springs and Shocks and Welding to right side Chassis between Spring Mount, also Between Spring Mount and Shock Mount and Shock Mount and Outrigger whilst it was all in bits

All Front and right rear side finished, the right rear is stripped and I can use the same templates to cut the 3 plates to weld in, so will hopefully get that finished tomorrow.

I found that one front and both rear shocks were well past their sell by date, (knackered) so hopefully that and the stock ride height will get it's straight line stability sorted out completely .................

Rear Watts, despite looking ok visually is also knackered, I have ordered a fully rebuilt one, but will take a few weeks as they are built to order That too should help the cause

Hopefully get to the Radiator / Intercooler / Boost Hoses renewal later this week, and check those Engine items you guys suggested.

Pix of ongoing works in my Project Thread

Dave2302 said:

Rear Watts, despite looking ok visually is also knackered, I have ordered a fully rebuilt one, but will take a few weeks as they are built to order

Click to expand...

If it's not too late, tell them to use genuine bushes as BP are known to fail in a couple of months - http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Watts Linkage Bushes.html

Hi, Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

It does say in the advert that he uses OEM Bushes, and has a 12 Month Warranty, so if it goes bad I'll be hitting him for a refund or replacement with LR Bushes

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293184595251?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

An update on this thread

So, I investigated everything you guys said re the lack of low down power and MAP, MAF, Wastegate etc etc are all fine.
I am almost convinced I know what the lack of low down pulling away power issue is, and it seems this issue is also related to the "harmonic / vibration" and an occasional light tinkling noise that can be felt / heard in the Cabin ....................

It would seem that whoever fitted this 15P Engine and Trans has fitted a 4.0 P38 Torque Converter, but no way is it an Ashcroft Kit
It looks like a poor quality "home made" Driveplate, Standard P38 Converter, (doesn't have the thicker 4 Bolt Plate on the Converter) and also I can find no signs of the Engine having had a Re-map

So, bearing in mind I have only viewed / confirmed all this through the inspection hole it the bottom of the Bell Housing, and some days the Vibe is worse than others, I have formed a theory .....................

I think the issue is either the Converters own welded on 4 bolt drive plate, or the actual Engine Drive plate at Gearbox end of the Spacer. Trans Oil is clean, so I don't suspect the Converter innards !!
The Spacer looks to be home made and is definitely shorter than a standard TD5 one, also there are some bright marks around the Drive Plate to spacer area and the plate looks to be ridiculously thin, something like 18 gauge

I think either the Converter Plate or Drive Plate is likely cracked / breaking or it may be poorly engineered and slightly off centre parts, which would fit in with a lot of other atrocious workmanship I have found on the Car whilst fettling, (read almost totally rebuilding it), back to it's former glory ...................

That would account for the Vibe.
Ashcroft do not recommend this conversion on a non mapped Engine, they say it affects low down power, because the Turbo can't spool up when pulling away at the lower Converter stall speed .................

So I have bought a good used standard Flywheel and all the correct Drive Plate etc, and hopefully, (sale agreed but yet to collect and pay the man as he hasn't pulled it out yet) I have also bought a good used TD5 D2 Auto Trans and Converter.

Once I get the correct Converter in with the spare Auto Trans, I will find me a long weekend to pull the T/Fer and Main Auto boxes, put it all back to Standard spec, and hopefully my theory will be confirmed

If it turns out I don't like the higher more revvy stall speed then later down the line, I may well buy the P38 4.0 parts off Ashcroft, and do the Remap
For now just want to stop spending money, currently a tad over £3k, and enjoy driving it without the bloody vibration, other than the vibe I really can't fault the 20 year old truck now I actually love driving it but hate working on it

Regarding the wandering issue all the work I have done has all but eliminated it, I still haven't got the Watts yet, (which does have a lotta play in the existing one), but advert does state they build to order and my "maximum get it by" date is 20th September

I have a bunch of smaller repairs like painting and replacing a lower tailgate door hinge, and more pro active welding / schutzing, but none of that is essential yet so I am just doing a little at a time, this will all be in my project thread

This weekend I have done right front non existent Mudflap Bracket and a plate on the front A post body mount, an today hopefully finishing the left rear Mudflap Bracket which has also turned into rebuilding a bit of the inner Wheelarch

Finally, I will update this on the findings / outcome when I get the Trans out and swap the Converter, but as long as nothing breaks I might leave that until later in the year, perhaps my Xmas shutdown, as we have a Wedding soon and all sorts of other stuff that will take up valuable Disco'ing time

Thanks to all for your help

Why not remap it now? You wont be a huge fan of the original torque converter i promise! Its too small and its like driving a speedboat or hovercraft in terms of revs to actual forward monentum. Im being unkind but the mid size TC gives a far better drive for the sake of a £200 remap. Post off your ECU to one of the popular companies. Very simple. It may just cure your issues without removing the box.

Thanks for the reply
I hear and agree with you, and doing that is all on the Cards in future but there are uncertainties and circumstances right now and I use this thing almost daily during working hours.
I'm almost certain a re map won't cure the Vibration

I don't know for certain what exactly is broken / FUBAR inside the Bell Housing, but it certainly isn't right The Bell-housing is exactly where the Vibe and sometimes the odd tinkling noise is coming from
Can hear / feel it when idling standing underneath the Truck with hand on Bell-housing and ear 'ole next to it

I have the correct stock Drive-plate, Spacer, Bolts etc etc here, and my pro active Transmission Purchase, (yet to collect it), which came from a good running TD5 was perfect until it hydraulic'd and blew the Engine !!
That one probably has a stock Converter, (unless it has been done), so as I've done loads of Auto's in LR's in the past and they don't take that long to pull out on 2 post lift I figured it's worth trying Factory Parts if I have to
More so if I don't find anything obvious and also bearing in mind how much I have put into this vehicle .......................

If I really can't live with it, then I will spend the £760 with Ashcroft plus the remap costs, so likely I'll be chucking another grand + at it especially as Ashcroft will surcharge me £200 as I don't currently have a TD5 Converter to exchange

Right now I'd just rather drive the darned thing without that Vibration and have piece of mind it isn't gonna poop itself on the M6 or some such, rather than spend another grand plus on it right now ..............
I've also got other Project cars to finish etc etc etc
On the flip side, if I take it out and find that it's just a cracked Flex Plate I will spend the £160 with Ashcroft and get the correct Drive Plate kit and re use my RR 4 Bolt Converter ..................

So yeah, a fair few unknowns until I get it all in bits
We've also got a lot going on for the rest of the year now, doubt I'll be going afar with the D15KOE so it might be left until my December shutdown, then it won't be in the way on my lift if I have to wait for a part

Cheers for now