92 RR not getting fuel to rail

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D

[email protected]

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My 92 Classic sputtered to a halt today. I figured I ran out of fuel,
so I put about a 1/2 gallan in. I haven't been able to start it since.
I pulled the fuel line at the rail and it is not getting any fuel up
there. I concluded that it was fuel relay, fuel inertia, or fuel pump.
I checked the pump w/12volt lamp and ignition on and I am getting no
light, so it appears that the pump is not getting power. I checked the
inertia switch and even
jumped it there, no fuel to rail. i tried the 12v lamp at the inertia
wires /doesn't light up? I also swapped the identical relays (fuel pump
relay and ecu relay) under the right seat. No cahnge. I don't notice
any clicking from under there with ignition on. What are the odds that
both those relay are done. How do I test those relay? Any ideas about
any of this would be greatly appreciated.

joe myers

 
On or around Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:13 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
[email protected] (Niamh Holding) enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] () wrote:
>
>> How do I test those relay?
>
>With a multimeter, apply 12V across the coil of the relay and the switch should go closed, ie damn near 0 Ohms, most relays have the pin out marked on the case.

and if they don't...

30/51 is live supply,
87 is NO output
87A is NC output
85 is trigger supply
86 is earth.

although the last 2 generally can be reversed with no ill-effects, IME.


OP: you sure it's not the fuse?


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> My 92 Classic sputtered to a halt today. I figured I ran out of fuel,
> so I put about a 1/2 gallan in. I haven't been able to start it since.
> I pulled the fuel line at the rail and it is not getting any fuel up
> there. I concluded that it was fuel relay, fuel inertia, or fuel pump.
> I checked the pump w/12volt lamp and ignition on and I am getting no
> light, so it appears that the pump is not getting power. I checked the
> inertia switch and even
> jumped it there, no fuel to rail. i tried the 12v lamp at the inertia
> wires /doesn't light up? I also swapped the identical relays (fuel pump
> relay and ecu relay) under the right seat. No change. I don't notice
> any clicking from under there with ignition on. What are the odds that
> both those relay are done. How do I test those relay? Any ideas about
> any of this would be greatly appreciated.


Joe

I haven't got time at the moment to check whether your system is the
same as a 1988 model but the following or something similar may apply.
There were changes for the 1991 model year but I don't yet know what was
involved.

There is no electrical supply to the pump unless either the engine is
cranking or the engine is running (determined by air flow through the
flapper valve - assuming that this is the version that you have). A
static test as you seem to describe won't run the pump unless you inject
volts at an appropriate point. There is also the over-run shutoff relay
near the left hand suspension tower.

Assuming that this is not just an empty tank problem (which half a
gallon probably won't cure) poor/broken connections at the last
connection before the pump and at the over-run shutoff relay are not
unknown.

Do you have a copy of the circuit diagram? I knocked something up for
the earlier model which I'll happily send you if you can confirm a good
e-mail address. I might also be able to find the same for your model
given more time.

David

 
92 3.9 has the hotwire airflow and I see no over run shut off. fuse is
good. I have run out of gas before and even less than 1/2 gal. worked.
I haven't pulled he fuel filter to see if it clogged, but it rarely
get that blocked. anyway, I'm not getting power to the pump, so it's
ahead of that somewhere.
batterys gone now so I'll have to get that charge and continue the
search. The 12v lamp lights and the coil pos when ignition on, where
would the next lamp test be?

joe m.

 
On or around 12 Mar 2005 08:42:11 -0800, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>92 3.9 has the hotwire airflow and I see no over run shut off. fuse is
>good. I have run out of gas before and even less than 1/2 gal. worked.
>I haven't pulled he fuel filter to see if it clogged, but it rarely
>get that blocked. anyway, I'm not getting power to the pump, so it's
>ahead of that somewhere.
>batterys gone now so I'll have to get that charge and continue the
>search. The 12v lamp lights and the coil pos when ignition on, where
>would the next lamp test be?

it's got a pump relay somewhere though, which only energizes when the
engine's turning. You should get power to the pump for the first few
seconds after turning on the ignition, mind.

have an assistant crank the engine, test for power at the pump while it's
cranking.

I can look it up, but I suspect that it gets a signal from the ECU on the
hotwire, which in turn knows whether the engine's turning either from
ignition impulses or from the fuel side.

improvise with a suitable length of wire from a 12V supply direct to the
pump, see if the pump runs. If so, see if the engine runs. This will
eliminate the pump.
 
In message <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes
>My 92 Classic sputtered to a halt today. I figured I ran out of fuel,
>so I put about a 1/2 gallan in. I haven't been able to start it since.
>I pulled the fuel line at the rail and it is not getting any fuel up
>there. I concluded that it was fuel relay, fuel inertia, or fuel pump.
>I checked the pump w/12volt lamp and ignition on and I am getting no
>light, so it appears that the pump is not getting power. I checked the
>inertia switch and even
>jumped it there, no fuel to rail. i tried the 12v lamp at the inertia
>wires /doesn't light up? I also swapped the identical relays (fuel pump
>relay and ecu relay) under the right seat. No cahnge. I don't notice
>any clicking from under there with ignition on. What are the odds that
>both those relay are done. How do I test those relay? Any ideas about
>any of this would be greatly appreciated.



Hi

under the carpet behind the front passenger seat (RHD) You will find the
wiring for the inertia switch. There is a join here that can corrode /
burn out. Have a look and see if that is the problem.

Good luck
--
Marc Draper
 

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around 12 Mar 2005 08:42:11 -0800, [email protected]
enlightened us
> thusly:
>
> >92 3.9 has the hotwire airflow and I see no over run shut off. fuse
is
> >good. I have run out of gas before and even less than 1/2 gal.
worked.
> >I haven't pulled he fuel filter to see if it clogged, but it rarely
> >get that blocked. anyway, I'm not getting power to the pump, so it's
> >ahead of that somewhere.
> >batterys gone now so I'll have to get that charge and continue the
> >search. The 12v lamp lights and the coil pos when ignition on, where
> >would the next lamp test be?
>
> it's got a pump relay somewhere though, which only energizes when the
> engine's turning. You should get power to the pump for the first few
> seconds after turning on the ignition, mind.
>
> have an assistant crank the engine, test for power at the pump while
it's
> cranking.
>
> I can look it up, but I suspect that it gets a signal from the ECU on
the
> hotwire, which in turn knows whether the engine's turning either from
> ignition impulses or from the fuel side.
>
> improvise with a suitable length of wire from a 12V supply direct to
the
> pump, see if the pump runs. If so, see if the engine runs. This
will
> eliminate the pump.

Prior to taking in the battery I disconnected the fuel filter under
the right wheel. I then set the battery on the tail gate and jumped it
directly to the fuel pump. Now, the battery isn't charged enough to
crank the engine, but certainly it would have enough to power the pump.
When I do this, I hear the pump running but it is not pumping out fuel
at the line under the right wheel, which I believe it should. Perhaps
the pump is sounding but not pumping? Could there be an obstruction in
the tank (pump) that would completely block ALL the fuel?
I am trying to avoid removing the pump.

joe m.

 
On or around 12 Mar 2005 09:44:05 -0800, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

> Prior to taking in the battery I disconnected the fuel filter under
>the right wheel. I then set the battery on the tail gate and jumped it
>directly to the fuel pump. Now, the battery isn't charged enough to
>crank the engine, but certainly it would have enough to power the pump.
>When I do this, I hear the pump running but it is not pumping out fuel
>at the line under the right wheel, which I believe it should. Perhaps
>the pump is sounding but not pumping? Could there be an obstruction in
>the tank (pump) that would completely block ALL the fuel?
>I am trying to avoid removing the pump.

you have put some more petrol in the tank, I assume...:)

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)
 
Well, when I ran out I put in a 1/2 gallon. Now, I have run out before
and put in less and had no trouble. when the battery is done being
charged I will drop in another gallon? and see. I just know from before
it has taken less to get it going again. I shall see. But it should be
putting out fuel at the filter line under the wheel, shouldn't it?

joe m.

 
On or around 12 Mar 2005 10:06:42 -0800, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>Well, when I ran out I put in a 1/2 gallon. Now, I have run out before
>and put in less and had no trouble. when the battery is done being
>charged I will drop in another gallon? and see. I just know from before
>it has taken less to get it going again. I shall see. But it should be
>putting out fuel at the filter line under the wheel, shouldn't it?

yes.

try it with a full 12V though.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]
 
Put a full 12v to pump. No fuel out of line.
Sounds to me as if the pump is running but not pumping. Diaphram?
Clog I do not see that it could be anything else. ????
I'll put a gallon in when I get the battery back from recharge. It it
doesn't work then, it has to be the pump.

joe m.

 
In news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> blithered:
> Put a full 12v to pump. No fuel out of line.
> Sounds to me as if the pump is running but not pumping. Diaphram?
> Clog I do not see that it could be anything else. ????
> I'll put a gallon in when I get the battery back from recharge. It it
> doesn't work then, it has to be the pump.
>
> joe m.

What side of the underwing fuel filter are you looking @?
If you've sucked all the sludge out of the tank its probably mostly in that filter
and making an effective lump out of it.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
On or around 12 Mar 2005 11:56:15 -0800, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>I took the filter completely off, so I'm getting no fuel prior to the
>filter.

I reckon the pump may be your culprit, then.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"If you cannot mould yourself as you would wish, how can you expect
other people to be entirely to your liking?"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xvi.
 
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