300tdi Engine problems

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B

Bob Hobden

Guest
A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be why
it won't restart/turn over.
AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.

New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't turn
over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.

Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
trying to bump start it?

What else could it be?

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London




 
In message <[email protected]>, Bob Hobden <[email protected]>
writes
>A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
>stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
>Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be why
>it won't restart/turn over.
>AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
>starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.
>
>New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't turn
>over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.
>
>Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
>been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
>trying to bump start it?
>
>What else could it be?
>


Tell him to take the ancillary drive belt off... then try to start it.

My money is on a seized alternator.

I have had that happen twice to customers cars.

Even heard our local main agent took the head off one 300tdi before
finding it was just the alternator.

Hope that helps
--
Marc Draper FOR SALE:

DISCO II (51) GS7 ACE, CLIMATE, SIDE STEPS, BGF AT'S, 67,000 MILES
DISCOVERY 300 TDI S (R) EPSOM GREEN, AC, 80,000 MILES
DISCOVERY VAN 300 TDI (M) 100,000 UNTIDY MILES !!
DISCOVERY 300 TDI (P) XS7 75,000 MILES
 
Immobiliser ?? The 300 Tdi have a known problem with two button remotes ;
where the spider PCB breaks up and causes intermittent non-starting !
Solution is to either extract PCB from spider and go over it with a
soldering iron ( can be spotted due to arcing and black marks ) or ( more
likely success ) buy an upgrade from LR to fit which reroutes the immobilser
and you end up with an extra fob that deactivates via a rely behind the
dash. £ 250




"Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
> stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
> Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be why
> it won't restart/turn over.
> AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
> starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.
>
> New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't turn
> over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.
>
> Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
> been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
> trying to bump start it?
>
> What else could it be?
>
> --
> Regards
> Bob
> In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
>
>
>
>


 
On or around Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:09:32 +0000, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Tell him to take the ancillary drive belt off... then try to start it.
>
>My money is on a seized alternator.
>

we had a self-destructed water pump here. destroyed its bearings and the
shaft went crooked in it. Mind, it threw the belt, rather than not turning.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
 



> "Bob Hobden" asked ...
>> A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
>> stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
>> Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be
>> why
>> it won't restart/turn over.
>> AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
>> starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.
>>
>> New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't
>> turn
>> over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.
>>
>> Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
>> been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
>> trying to bump start it?
>>
>> What else could it be?
>>
>>

"Hirsty" replied
> Immobiliser ?? The 300 Tdi have a known problem with two button remotes ;
> where the spider PCB breaks up and causes intermittent non-starting !
> Solution is to either extract PCB from spider and go over it with a
> soldering iron ( can be spotted due to arcing and black marks ) or ( more
> likely success ) buy an upgrade from LR to fit which reroutes the
> immobilser
> and you end up with an extra fob that deactivates via a rely behind the
> dash. £ 250
>
>
But would that cause the engine to stall in the first place?

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:

> A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
> stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
> Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be why
> it won't restart/turn over.
> AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
> starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.
>

Do you mean "won't trun over" as in when bumping it the engine will not
go round, or turning the key does nothing.

> New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't turn
> over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.

Assuming you mean that then engine can be turned, but the starter does
nothing, then most likely the wire has come off the starter solenoid.

>
> Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
> been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
> trying to bump start it?

I'd still go for the wire falling off, but if you want to check for a
broken cam belt you can take the the oil filler cap off and gently roll
the vehicle in gear (being very careful to to run someone over!) and
whatch for the rockers moving, If they do, the belt is ok.

>
> What else could it be?
>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:30:25 -0000, "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
>stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
>Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be why
>it won't restart/turn over.
>AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
>starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.
>
>New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't turn
>over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.
>
>Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
>been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
>trying to bump start it?
>
>What else could it be?

More than 1 problem.

The cut out could be due to several things, but 1st, I'd look at the
cut out switch wire on the back of the injector pump. If its fallen
off, corroded or just badly connected, that will cause a cut out.

Non running starter could be cable connections, dodgy solonoid or lots
of other stuff.

--
ColonelTupperware,
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/ UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/
 
On or around Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:42:55 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>(being very careful to to run someone over!)

yep, that's an essential part of the proceedings.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Which part, the checking the cam belt or the not knocking someone over..?
Hehehe


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:42:55 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>(being very careful to to run someone over!)
>
> yep, that's an essential part of the proceedings.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
> too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
> Bank Holiday weekend.
> from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.


 
On or around Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:46:31 GMT, "cyberwraith"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Which part, the checking the cam belt or the not knocking someone over..?

read it again...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)
 

"beamendsltd" wrote after"Bob Hobden" asked
>
>> A neighbour is driving his 300tdi Disco in early hours of morning when it
>> stops, engine cuts out, he tries to restart but engine won't turn over.
>> Battery has been on it's last legs for a while so suspects that may be
>> why
>> it won't restart/turn over.
>> AA called, they check it out, try various things, and eventually try bump
>> starting it, all with no luck. They then truck it home.
>
> Do you mean "won't trun over" as in when bumping it the engine will not
> go round, or turning the key does nothing.

When trying to start there are the usual noises for a very short time as if
the starter is engaged but the engine does not turn over, pushing the
vehicle in gear is the same, it won't turn over.
>
>> New battery bought but although the electrics now work it still won't
>> turn
>> over. They, being optimists, suspect the starter motor.
>
> Assuming you mean that then engine can be turned, but the starter does
> nothing, then most likely the wire has come off the starter solenoid.
>
See above

>> Is it likely to be a broken cam belt? If so what damage is likely to have
>> been done to the engine?AND what damage could have been caused by the AA
>> trying to bump start it?
>
> I'd still go for the wire falling off, but if you want to check for a
> broken cam belt you can take the the oil filler cap off and gently roll
> the vehicle in gear (being very careful to to run someone over!) and
> whatch for the rockers moving, If they do, the belt is ok.
>
I would have hoped the AA would have checked for that before they tried bump
starting it, but will suggest they check that first and then the alternator
etc etc.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London


 
Bob Hobden wrote:


> When trying to start there are the usual noises for a very short time
as if
> the starter is engaged but the engine does not turn over, pushing the
> vehicle in gear is the same, it won't turn over.
>
Hi Bob,
Lets agree on some definitions - this is Usenet, and folks will still
argue even if we do agree.

;-)

If the starter is engaged, and its making the usual -ur -ur -rrr-rrr
noise, its turning over.

If the starter is going wheeeeeeee Its not engaged.

If the lights are dimming out to off and it clicks, either the battery
is knackered or uncharged or the starter is stalled dead, either because
it failed to engage properly, or because the engine is buggered.

What do YOU mean by it won't turn over - do you mean fire ? or rotate ?

Steve
 
On or around Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:08:08 +0000, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>If the starter is engaged, and its making the usual -ur -ur -rrr-rrr
>noise, its turning over.
>
>If the starter is going wheeeeeeee Its not engaged.

and if it goes urk. then it's engaged and the engine's stuck for some
reason, yet to be determined.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> and if it goes urk. then it's engaged and the engine's stuck for some
> reason, yet to be determined.

Urk ? Not had one that's only turn a little bit, rock solid yes, but not
a little bit.

Steve
 

"Steve Taylor" wrote after
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> and if it goes urk. then it's engaged and the engine's stuck for some
>> reason, yet to be determined.
>
> Urk ? Not had one that's only turn a little bit, rock solid yes, but not a
> little bit.
>

It makes the normal noises, i.e. the starter engages, and then the engine
won't rotate and then the starter disengages after slipping on the ring (and
I'm not about to try to write the sounds it's making) :)
When I put it in 2nd gear and tried moving it there appeared to be some
movement but it could have been drive belt stretch if one thinks on the
alternator suggestion.
It will all have to wait until his wife gets home, he being away.
I'll keep you informed.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London


 
No idea, however my bugger chose to start when it pleased and no amount of
thumping bumping or swearing would get it going. It simply started after an
unpredictable time. Had LR assisstance to see it and he diagnosed sensor
coil first time and jammed starter second time . After replacing both ( ( £
340 ) I took it to RCVehicles in Kent and they did the spider ( £250 ) which
solved the problem. Reason I mentioned it is that it would seem to be a
small advance to cutting the engine as it was under way. ???

Good Luck
John H


>
> "Hirsty" replied
> > Immobiliser ?? The 300 Tdi have a known problem with two button remotes
;
> > where the spider PCB breaks up and causes intermittent non-starting !
> > Solution is to either extract PCB from spider and go over it with a
> > soldering iron ( can be spotted due to arcing and black marks ) or (
more
> > likely success ) buy an upgrade from LR to fit which reroutes the
> > immobilser
> > and you end up with an extra fob that deactivates via a rely behind the
> > dash. £ 250
> >
> >
> But would that cause the engine to stall in the first place?
>


 
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:05:21 -0000, "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Steve Taylor" wrote after
>> Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>>> and if it goes urk. then it's engaged and the engine's stuck for some
>>> reason, yet to be determined.
>>
>> Urk ? Not had one that's only turn a little bit, rock solid yes, but not a
>> little bit.
>>
>
>It makes the normal noises, i.e. the starter engages, and then the engine
>won't rotate and then the starter disengages after slipping on the ring (and
>I'm not about to try to write the sounds it's making) :)

Should the starter be slipping? Id have thought that if the engine was
siezed then the starter would turn enough to engage the flywheel teeth
and then clonk to a stop (and be unable to push the flywheel anymore)

I tried to start a car with an engine that was siezed up after sitting
for a long while. It did this

 
In news:[email protected],
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> blithered:
> On or around Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:46:31 GMT, "cyberwraith"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> Which part, the checking the cam belt or the not knocking someone
>> over..?
>
> read it again...

<Harbinger of doom>
Isn't there a fault with one of the LR deisel engines that the oil pump drive
falls off, don't know that would manifest itself as nil rotation.

Is the engine hydraulicked? ie a cylinder is full of liquid, from wherever, can be
overcome/checked by pushing it over backwards in a fwd gear! Doesn't need a whole
cylinder full just a combustion chamber's worth. If it was a petrol I'd say take
the plugs out and see if it'll turn over then, dunno 'bout a deisel!
</Harbinger of doom>


--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 

>
> <Harbinger of doom>
> Isn't there a fault with one of the LR deisel engines that the oil pump
> drive falls off, don't know that would manifest itself as nil rotation.
>

That's a TD5 problem

Peter


 
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