300 TDI Heating Problem..Head Gasket ?

Hello all
I have a heating problem with my 300 TDi Disco, that I would appreciate your thoughts on. Some background:

The car is a 300 TDi, S Reg (yes one of the very last 300 series) and has covered 96,000 in total. I bought the car in March 2009 it having covered 67,000 miles. The car is in exceptional condition for its age, having been one lady owner from new, and registered disabled. It had been in an accident, although Cat C damage. I change the oil, oil filter and air filter every 6,000 miles, and fuel filter every 12,000 miles.

About 3 months ago, I noticed a very minor leak starting around the P Gasket, so I replaced the P Gasket, Water Pump and serpentine belt. The car has covered 15,000 miles since these works, with no problems.

About 3 weeks ago I noticed that the engine temparature was fine (the gauge in its usual place) although I had no heat in the car itself. This was after a good 25 - 30 miles. I pulled over and examined the hoses. Turns out that there didn't appear to be any water in the top hose. After squeezing the top hose (from thermostat hosing to rad) water filled it. I re-started the engine, and the car warmed up. I then drove the car as normal on my usual 550 mile weekly round trip. I then replaced the thermostat, anti freeze etc at home the following weekend.

Since then I have noticed that I am again getting air around the thermostat housing. I plan on flushing the the coolant system completely and checking the hoses, as I want to eliminate the possiblity of an air lock in the system, before going on to assume its a head gasket failure.

I have no mayonaise in the coolant, and no other obvious signs of a head gasket failure. However, when cold the engine does not seem to have as much "grunt" as it used to do. Once warmed up its fine. With this in mind I think it maybe wise to get the engine tested for head gasket failure.

So how do you test for a head gasket failure ? Compression test ? Garage job only (testing that is) ? Anything else I should try before getting the head off ? Can I get the head tested to make sure its not warped ? How do I do that ?

Any advice ?

Cheers

Get hold of a water pressure test kit it screws onto the exspansion tank pump it up and see if it holds pressure or if theres any sign of leaks, it will also show a head gasket gone as it loses pressure without visable signs of a leak, but it does sound like a head gasket I have had two go and the first sign is heater matrix blowing cold but try every thing else first could be a leak some where creating an air lock has the water is replaced with air. If its the head any engine rebuild shop should be able to test for damage a skim tends to cost £50 new gasket aroun £25 normaly cost me around £100 to do it myself all the best with it need any more help let me no.

Hi
Thanks for the information. So where do I get this water pressure test kit from ? I understand diesel engines to compress to tremendous pressures, even as far as 70 Bar (1000 PSI) and I don't think the plastic water resevoir would take this sort of pressure. I have probably got t wrong though.

Anyway, I've just had another look at the engine. Some of the Jubilee clips around the cooling system seemed loose (by a turn or two) so I've nipped them all up tight, and re-filled the system. The Thermostat housing has a black plastic screw plug. I filled the system via this, and squeezed the hoses to expel any air trapped. Once I had sealed the system, I started the engine, with the reservoir cap off. On revving the engine, I saw really tiny bibbles (lots of them) appear in the reservoir tank. If I didn't rev the engine, they stopped appearing.

After 5 or so minutes of tick over, I again revved the engine, but this time no bobbles. So I am assuming that these tiny bubbles where disolved air in the water, that was being forced out as the engine temparature rose. Much the same way bubbles appear in a boiling kettle.

I'll take the car for a drive later on and see what happens. Hopefully the air in the system is because the Jubillee clips had become loose, and it was sucking air in, as the engine cooled down. (Been very cold lately).

I've done a head gasket / head rebuild in the past, and am comfortable doing one again. Last time I re-built a head, that was all OK, but the pistons & rings where shot as well, so I sold the car in the end. (It had done 250,000 when it went ) I'll order a gasket & all the bits, just in case.

Cheers

Just to clarify, the pressure tester refers to testing the coolant pressure, so where all the water ways go, not the actual actual cylinders. The water pressure ain't 1000psi.

who's water pump did you fit, if it's a britpart unit i think thats where i would start looking before worrying about the head. they are crap and your lucky if you get 12 months out of one

OK on the water pressure test kit. I'll see if I can get one.

The water pump is a Britpart pump, and I take your point, although to be honest, I've never had a problem with the one's I fitted in the past. (On my old Disco at 125,000 miles, and it was still on at 250,000) and one on another Disco at 100,000 and it was still on that when I scrapped it at 185,000.

What problems have you had with the Britpart pumps & what symptoms did you have ?

Cheers

fitted one and it sheared the shaft after 20 miles, got that one replaced and after about 600 miles the pulley was starting to turn on the shaft, was causing the heater to blow cold because the water could not circulate properly. only found that fault when i was taking it back off and the pulley slipped slightly. soon as i fitted a third pump from a local factors everything was good. should have learned after i fitted a britpart lift pump that was actually worse than the one i took off
the only thing i have used of theirs and hasn't fooked up were the springs and shocks i bought (mind i did sell the car a thousand miles later)

water pressure test kits tests the pressure of the water sytem with the engine not running, if theres a leak across the gasket from the cylinder to the water channels the water sytem wont hold pressure as it pushes water into the cylinder, the kit screws onto the expansion tank then you manualy pump it up till it reaches 15psi leave it for 10 minutes and see if it still reads 15psi if not theres a leak if theres no signs of coolant leaking out any where then its most likley pushing across the cylinder head into the cylinders the kit I have is a Sykes and Pickavant If your near to Uttoxeter Staffordshire I could pop across and try it for you have to be close mind

Any significant water loss or white smoke out of the exhaust.
Your matrix could be blocked causing bad or lack of flow af the coolant around the system, take one hose off the matrix end and see if any water is flowing out.

Hello all
I have no significant water loss, and no white smoke from the exhaust. No Mayo in water. No leaks from the heater matrix, and water coming out where it should.



I'll take it to the local garage and get the engine compression tested.

We live just outside Llangollen, and Uttoxeter isn't that far, so I may take you up on your kind offer to check the cooling system. Basicly pump up the pressure , wait and see if it drops after a period of time. When its cold, of course.

Thanks all

Adrian

I hate to be the one that throws four-star on the fire but, I have a XS model with 120k on it and it has a suspect head gasket, the syptoms are do unlike yours.
A lack of power when cold, no smoke from the exhaust, black or white, no water in the oil, no leaks from rad, hoses or heater matrix (as far as i can tell), no heat from the heater, i can fill the system and the expansion tank will be dry in about five miles, seems to be exiting the engine around the flywheel area or at least thats where it hitting the ground at quite an alarming rate.

I am still not 100% convinced that it is a gasket, I think it may be a core plug letting by at the back of the head, either way the heads coming off for inspection this week, and besides i have no idea if it has been done before, for all I know it might have a crappy old Britpart gasket from Paddocks. !!

Take the advise and change the gasket for a Genuine one and be done with it, while you are at it, replace any Britpart bits with Genuine parts, that way it'll run forever.

Good luck

Gary

(BTW, read ANY LandRover forum and EVERYONE says the same, Britparts are crap, and Paddocks need to stop selling them as their reputation is suffering because the seem to be the number one supplier of them).

Not a personal thing (never used them personally) just echoing the feelings of the majority.

Hi all
I think Gary's symptoms are a good summary of what I am seeing, ie a lack of power when cold, no smoke from the exhaust, black or white, no water in the oil, no leaks from rad, hoses or heater matrix (as far as i can tell). Heater wise my Disco does warm up the matrix and we get heat. I am not loosing water, anywhere I can see, and so the water loss is about quarter a resvoir tank on a 500 mile run.

Its never overheated whilst I have owned it (in as much as I pulled over before the Tem gauge got above half way up...its usually about one third the way up).

I have re-checked the P gasket and water pump this afternoon. They both seem to be OK. However, as the water pump from Landrover is only a few quid more than the Britpart one I'll replace that in due course.

I'll keep tabs on this the next week or so, but won't be hittingthe mileage until the first week in January, when I have a 650 mile round trip to do. (I am in the AA).

I think I'll get the engine compression tested and tested for water leaks (as described in this thread).

I suspect a head problem, and with that in mind I think I would get a re-built head. (ie Turner Engineering ?) as whilst I am comfortable taking the head off, replacing the gasket and re-building, I would prefer to replace the head as I know it should be 100% and its pre-built with ground in valves etc.

I take it a Landrover Genuine Gasket is the way to go ?

Perhaps someone ought to start a thread on tips & tricks replacing Disco heads ?

Regards

Hi there!

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I am having very similair probs, could you fill me in on how you got on?

Jon

Hello Jon

I am in deepest France at the moment, so apologies if the email is a bit brief ! Its the wine !

The problem turned out to be the P Gasket. Its replacement is described in words & pictures on this site & the web.

I geared up to replace the head gasket after being told by a local garage that that was the problem. As I started work, I used a very bright inspection lamp, and noticed rusty water stains from behind the water pump, running down the corner of the engine block,between the front of the engine and the exhaust manifold.

I replaced the P gasket (again) and the car has completed over 8,000 miles without a problem. No water loss, no over heating, all motorway work.

The P gasket takes about 3 hours to replace, and is a relatively easy job, even for me, a ham fisted mechanic.

Just follow good engineering practice & clean all crud off the mating surfaces where the new gasket will go, and use some gasket sealent as well. I used the blue silicon based sealent.

Best of luck !

Adrian

Hi there!

Thanks for the reply!

I have just finished doing the P gasket as I had the same stains down the side of the engine. I am going to change the water pump today too tho as I don't seem to be getting much pressure in the system. That and it is a Brit part pump thats on so before I go get a head kit I thought changing the pump would be an easier option first lol!

Again many thanks for the reply!

Jon

Hi Jon

I would put a bet on the P gasket being the problem with overheating. I have been told its the biggest source of head gasket failures on the 200 and 300 TDi engines.

Changing the pump is another good thing to do whilst doing the P gasket. I have never had a problem with Brit Parts..... except for water pump failures.!!!

If you suspect you need to do a head gasket job, get the cylinder head and coolant system pressure tested before hand. My original 300 TDi did 250,000 miles before the head gasket went. Confirmed by pressure testing.

Email me if you get stuck.

Regards

Adrian

Fitted a new water pump today and when filled I got heat from in the cab! Had a new P gasket too.

Will let her cool overnight and check the expansion tank in the morning then take her for a run. Finger crossed were good!

Opened the expansion tank this morning and there was pressure + mucho water pi55ing out.

I am taking a guess that once the stat opens the extra water will fill the rad up and solve this issue. I'll do that in the morrow, kids dragged me round Chatsworth today and me feet are done in lol!

Filling works every time using a funnel in the stat housing and the top heater hose off pointing up and an old heater hose on the metal pipe also pointing up. I fill till water comes out of the heater hoses then rejoin and fire her up. Heaters warm in 5 minutes.