300 TDi head gasket

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A

Austin Shackles

Guest

rumour (via the RAC) has it that ours has blown it's head gasket.
apparently, it's pressurising the water system and blowing water out. This
has become apparent after it overheated, I know not how severely.

I intend fetching it back on the trailer (it's up at Bala) and will then
have to fix it.

What am I likely to need for this exercise, any guesses on what I might find
apart from the blown gasket, is it worth doing the timing belt at the same
time? I doubt the timing belt actually has to be disturbed to lift the
head, though I've not actually looked in the book yet.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
 
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]: (Snipped)

>
> rumour (via the RAC) has it that ours has blown it's head
> gasket. apparently, it's pressurising the water system and
> blowing water out.
>
> What am I likely to need for this exercise?

Whatever else you do, don't forget to replace the head bolts. I
think you can measure them to check they haven't stretched (and
thusly lost the ability to be torqued down) but having been
there with one of my Peug 504's, I'd replace them anyway.

Derry
 
Derry Argue wrote:

> Whatever else you do, don't forget to replace the head bolts. I
> think you can measure them to check they haven't stretched (and
> thusly lost the ability to be torqued down) but having been
> there with one of my Peug 504's, I'd replace them anyway.

Sound advice indeed. My regular engine parts supplier won't warranty a
head gasket without new bolts (if they're the torque to yield type).


--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
On or around Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:03:32 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>rumour (via the RAC) has it that ours has blown it's head gasket.
>apparently, it's pressurising the water system and blowing water out. This
>has become apparent after it overheated, I know not how severely.


further to the following, and after reading the book...

what's the thought on the matter of different gaskets?

is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described, or is it
simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket anyway?

and further, I assume, it should be safe to refit the same type of gasket as
is currently fitted... is this a valid assumption.

I think it fairly unlikely that this engine has ever been apart before,
since it's only just got to 90K miles from new which I'm fairly sure is
genuine.

I'll lift the head later on.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:

> is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described, or is it
> simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket anyway?

Yes, but I would say that :)

> and further, I assume, it should be safe to refit the same type of
> gasket as
> is currently fitted... is this a valid assumption.

Sort of with several caveats...

> I think it fairly unlikely that this engine has ever been apart before,
> since it's only just got to 90K miles from new which I'm fairly sure is
> genuine.

When you end up having to deal with engines that have been reconditioned by
monkeys, or built by an unknown quantity (and I include Land Rover in that)
it's best to check and fit the right one.

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Niamh Holding) wrote:

> > is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described, or is it
> > simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket anyway?
>
> Yes, but I would say that :)

By which I mean it is worth measuring and buying the right one.

FWIW the last 200TDI we did; just looking before pulling the head we swore
it was a 2 hole, whereas it was actually a 3 hole, and it needed a 2 hole.

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
Austin Shackles wrote:


> is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described, or is it
> simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket anyway?

At work we just replace the gasket on engines known to be in factory
condition with another of the same spec.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
EMB <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>
>> is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described,
>> or is it simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket
>> anyway?
>
> At work we just replace the gasket on engines known to be
> in factory condition with another of the same spec.
>

Isn't this an aluminium head? If so, shouldn't it be checked for
distortion (flatness)? And skimmed if not flat? Then a thicker
gasket to compensate?

Excuse my ignorance but this was almost routine with the old
Peugeot 2.3 engines -- which blew gaskets with monotonous
regularity. That's when I learnt about stretched bolts! :(
Another thing to loook for was cracks.... Those were the days!

Derry
 
On or around 27 Jul 2004 20:14:59 GMT, Derry Argue
<derry(delete)@adviegundogs.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>Isn't this an aluminium head? If so, shouldn't it be checked for
>distortion (flatness)? And skimmed if not flat? Then a thicker
>gasket to compensate?

It will be checked. might get it pressure-tested as well, we'll see what it
looks like. according to the information I have, it overheated enough that
it almost siezed. It's running (imperfectly) now though, enough to drive
onto the trailer anyway.

>Excuse my ignorance but this was almost routine with the old
>Peugeot 2.3 engines -- which blew gaskets with monotonous
>regularity. That's when I learnt about stretched bolts! :(
>Another thing to loook for was cracks.... Those were the days!

that too. I've not had occasion to lift a LR TDi head personally, hence the
questions.

I'd give good odds that this one's never been lifted, mind, based on
condition and mileage.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 
On or around Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:03:32 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:


OK...

head now off.

preliminary observations... gasket had been blowing between 2 and 3. gasket
appears to have been intact until it was lifted, i.e. no actual missing
bits.

no obvious signs of damage to pistons or bores - anyone who can think of a
way of checking pistons/bores for damage caused by a partial seizure without
taking it apart any more gets a prize. I'll turn it and see if it's free
all the way round, and check the bores visually, but I suspect the only way
I'm likely to find out is to reassemble with a new head gasket and hope. If
any pistons or rings are dodgy, it'll then become apparent.

pistons look nice and clean. slight coating of soot, ditto on injector
nozzles.

I assume that it's recommended to fit new injector sealing washers on
reassembly...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:

> no obvious signs of damage to pistons or bores - anyone who can think of
> a
> way of checking pistons/bores for damage caused by a partial seizure
> without
> taking it apart any more gets a prize.

Put it back together and do compression & leak down tests.

> I assume that it's recommended to fit new injector sealing washers on
> reassembly...

Well depends if you want to do it right, or bodge it :)

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
On or around Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:10 +0100 (BST),
[email protected] (Niamh Holding) enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:
>
>> no obvious signs of damage to pistons or bores - anyone who can think of
>> a
>> way of checking pistons/bores for damage caused by a partial seizure
>> without
>> taking it apart any more gets a prize.
>
>Put it back together and do compression & leak down tests.

and then find that it's wrong... which is the bit I hoped to avoid.
However... bores look OK on examination with a decently-bright light, so
inclined to chance it. I think I might do the timing belt, in fact, if only
so as to see if it looks naff and to make sure the valve are timed right,
cf. other post.
>
>> I assume that it's recommended to fit new injector sealing washers on
>> reassembly...
>
>Well depends if you want to do it right, or bodge it :)

I doubt the cost of injector washers will break the bank. I'll probably
take the injectors up the road to the garage and get 'em pressure-tested,
while they're out, too.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:

> and then find that it's wrong... which is the bit I hoped to avoid.

It's a bugger!

> However... bores look OK on examination with a decently-bright light, so
> inclined to chance it.

Sadly you can't get to see the state of the rings.

Personally (& professionally) I'd be taking the chance to set the valve
clearances too.

> I think I might do the timing belt, in fact, if only
> so as to see if it looks naff and to make sure the valve are timed right,
> cf. other post.

At 90K I would replace it without even thinking if it has never been
done... without bothering to actually look it up I think they are a 60K
service item.

> I doubt the cost of injector washers will break the bank. I'll probably
> take the injectors up the road to the garage and get 'em pressure-tested,
> while they're out, too.

While your doing all that also consider dropping the pump in for testing
too. We use South West Electro Diesel down on the Cillefwr estate.

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
On or around Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:29 +0100 (BST),
[email protected] (Niamh Holding) enlightened us thusly:

>Personally (& professionally) I'd be taking the chance to set the valve
>clearances too.

goes without saying, especially as I can never be arsed with all that
knowing which pushrod came from which hole...


The belt has been changed, but I think it was about 40K ago. The book says
72K or 36K, depending on use and environment.

don't think I'll bother with the pump, it was running OK afor it went
wrong...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count,
and those who can't" (Anon)
 
Derry Argue wrote:

> Whatever else you do, don't forget to replace the head bolts. I
> think you can measure them to check they haven't stretched (and
> thusly lost the ability to be torqued down) but having been
> there with one of my Peug 504's, I'd replace them anyway.

Sound advice indeed. My regular engine parts supplier won't warranty a
head gasket without new bolts (if they're the torque to yield type).


--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:

> is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described, or is it
> simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket anyway?

Yes, but I would say that :)

> and further, I assume, it should be safe to refit the same type of
> gasket as
> is currently fitted... is this a valid assumption.

Sort of with several caveats...

> I think it fairly unlikely that this engine has ever been apart before,
> since it's only just got to 90K miles from new which I'm fairly sure is
> genuine.

When you end up having to deal with engines that have been reconditioned by
monkeys, or built by an unknown quantity (and I include Land Rover in that)
it's best to check and fit the right one.

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:

> and then find that it's wrong... which is the bit I hoped to avoid.

It's a bugger!

> However... bores look OK on examination with a decently-bright light, so
> inclined to chance it.

Sadly you can't get to see the state of the rings.

Personally (& professionally) I'd be taking the chance to set the valve
clearances too.

> I think I might do the timing belt, in fact, if only
> so as to see if it looks naff and to make sure the valve are timed right,
> cf. other post.

At 90K I would replace it without even thinking if it has never been
done... without bothering to actually look it up I think they are a 60K
service item.

> I doubt the cost of injector washers will break the bank. I'll probably
> take the injectors up the road to the garage and get 'em pressure-tested,
> while they're out, too.

While your doing all that also consider dropping the pump in for testing
too. We use South West Electro Diesel down on the Cillefwr estate.

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
Derry Argue wrote:

> Whatever else you do, don't forget to replace the head bolts. I
> think you can measure them to check they haven't stretched (and
> thusly lost the ability to be torqued down) but having been
> there with one of my Peug 504's, I'd replace them anyway.

Sound advice indeed. My regular engine parts supplier won't warranty a
head gasket without new bolts (if they're the torque to yield type).


--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Niamh Holding) wrote:

> > is it worth measuring the piston protrusion as described, or is it
> > simpler/easier/safer to fit a 3-hole gasket anyway?
>
> Yes, but I would say that :)

By which I mean it is worth measuring and buying the right one.

FWIW the last 200TDI we did; just looking before pulling the head we swore
it was a 2 hole, whereas it was actually a 3 hole, and it needed a 2 hole.

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Austin Shackles) wrote:

> no obvious signs of damage to pistons or bores - anyone who can think of
> a
> way of checking pistons/bores for damage caused by a partial seizure
> without
> taking it apart any more gets a prize.

Put it back together and do compression & leak down tests.

> I assume that it's recommended to fit new injector sealing washers on
> reassembly...

Well depends if you want to do it right, or bodge it :)

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk
 
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