2a or series 3 that is the question

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breakers

New Member
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worcester and shropshire
Just got, but not picked up yet a series landrover. It's registered as 1968 with plate to match but everything points to the fact it's a series 3: lights on the outside, air intake on the side of the wing, square door hinges and series 3 dash.
Can anyone tell me why this would be? I assume it's either been updated (very unlikely I would think) or it's got a 2a identity (possibly for tax reasons) or another reason I can't think of. Can anyone shed any light on this.
many thanks adam
 
its a question without an answer.......ever heard of Washingtons hatchet?

Things are so easy to swop about......2a's have lights in the wings anyway, 3 hinges fit 2a doors and posts, just fitted a 3 heater to my 2a cause its better.......as in 'crap' instead of 'really crap'......my series 3 is on a military 2a chassis and has had 2 engine changes.

Would've thought the dash is most suspect because most people dont change the bulkhead without a bloody good reason.......but if the paperwork says it a 2a and nobodies argueing then just enjoy the yearly trip to the postoffice and your 'historic' status :)
 
blue beasty said:
but if the paperwork says it a 2a and nobodies argueing then just enjoy the yearly trip to the postoffice and your 'historic' status :)
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what happens when whoever finds out it's a 84 S3 and he gets done for the back tax, or gets it taken off him as he's unable to prove it's legality ?
 
surely the checks are done when historic status is applied for.......so long as the info matches the vehicle.....as I understand it you can fit aftermarket accessories and replacement parts to a historic vehicle so long as they are designed for that vehicle......so.....a series 3 box bolts straight into a 2a....its designed to do that....by default maybe but it does so dont lose any points on the historic status system they use.

I could be wrong.....wouldn't be the first time but you need a team of archiologists to work out the history of some Landys
 
ermmm ...... some naughty peeps take the plates off a dead tax ex Series and put them on ......... almost anything and use the V5 to convince billy noidea that it's a legit tax ex vehicle
 
The usual way to tell is the shape of the gearbox crossmember brackets.

On a Series 3 the left-hand bracket (and also the right) has a kink in it to clear the clutch slave cylinder- under left hand side of transmission tunnel.

Series 2/2a have this bracket straight because the slave cylinder was higher up on these models.

Worth checking. No 'confirmation' is needed when applying for historic status. The only catch point is if the MOT tester knows his stuff, but they aren't there to be policemen.
Unfortunately, the first the owner knows about it is when the Traffic coppers pull you over and impound the vehicle!
 
I had a similar dilemma but only after I bought it. It was documented as a 1962 2a but has all series 3 body work/bulkhead. The chassis is 2a so if it came to it, I would argue that it's still pre '73.
If it has a series 3 chassis then there's nothing you can point to as original.
 
Sean said:
what happens when whoever finds out it's a 84 S3 and he gets done for the back tax, or gets it taken off him as he's unable to prove it's legality ?
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If anyone (official, eg MOT man, copper) suspects its' identity then it is flagged for a Vehicle Identity Check (VIC), where VOSA get involved. This is the same if the MOT man cannot read or find the chassis number, it gets flagged up.

This is off VOSA website:
"If VOSA cannot confirm the identity of your car, you’ll be issued with a VIC failure notice (VIC21), which will give the reasons for failure. VOSA will refer the case either to the police or DVLA for further investigation. VOSA will monitor its progress and tell you of the outcome once complete. This may take several weeks.
......if the car’s identity cannot be confirmed, the VIC marker will stay on the vehicle record and DVLA will not issue a registration certificate"

It is very, very easy to tell a Series 3 that has been ID'd as a Series 2a.
Do the chassis checks as someone said above and walk away if in doubt. I think DVLA would love to crush some of these given half the chance.
 
Ok, let's say I've brought a 3 with 2a identity, it's had all the chassis welded and now all solid, it's had a replacement 2a diesel engine fitted and now needs wiring. So what could I do? I still think it will make a nice truck but how do I know the real age? Is it worth re registering? Any opinions welcomed! Oh and dvla have it as a petrol in blue! Now it's diesel and green
 
breakers said:
Ok, let's say I've brought a 3 with 2a identity, it's had all the chassis welded and now all solid, it's had a replacement 2a diesel engine fitted and now needs wiring. So what could I do? I still think it will make a nice truck but how do I know the real age? Is it worth re registering? Any opinions welcomed! Oh and dvla have it as a petrol in blue! Now it's diesel and green
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So what you've bought is essentially a Land Rover without a V5. The V5 you have doesn't belong to the vehicle. The fact that work has been done to the truck is beside the point. Has it been nicked and passed off to you as something it isn't? The condition of the vehicle is immaterial to this problem.

As far as I can see, these are the options:

1. Go back to the seller and make a fuss. He'll probably say 'not my problem mate!'
Depending who it is, you could always get Trading Standards involved, or more. After all, he's had your money for something that isn't what it should be.

2. Try to establish the real identity of the vehicle and apply to DVLA for a V5. If it works, you'll get a logbook for a Series 3, probably taxable. If it doesn't, it may flag the vehicle as 'of interest' and you'll get a visit from the Stolen Vehicle whatsit.

3. Say nothing and carry on with it as it is, hoping that nobody spots it.

4. Keep it for off road only (yeah, right)

5. Sell it...which is probably what happened last time....

Anyone else got any ideas?
 
This is always a sticky situation. The series 3 body parts count for nothing, they are a shame on a IIA, but do not affect the points system. The chassis does, as would the running gear etc. It is possible to tell IIA axles from series 3 (serial number prefixes etc) and the chassis will be different, as mentioned above. This is especially easy to tell on a 109". Trouble is, if you asked for a IIA chassis in the 1970s-80s, you would have got a series 3 chassis *from Landrover*. The body and the rest of the bits will fit with little modification. By rights though you should have the paperwork to back it up, ie, receipt from Landrover etc.
I would say that if anything is even slightly suspect about a vehicle, walk away, there are loads out there, and the tax evaders are being squeezed. What usually happens is these things just get passed on and on as the owners realise what they are.
 
well I think I've sorted this mess out, went round today and chatted to the guy, he agreed that it was a series 3 and not a 2a so a full refunds been agreed but not yet recieved (fingers crossed)
I've now found a real 2a now all I need to do is fix a rotten chassis, still at least it will really be tax exempt!
 
well I think I've sorted this mess out, went round today and chatted to the guy, he agreed that it was a series 3 and not a 2a so a full refunds been agreed but not yet recieved (fingers crossed)
I've now found a real 2a now all I need to do is fix a rotten chassis, still at least it will really be tax exempt!
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Glad to hear you sorted it out- let's hope he pays up.
I think this tax exemption business can lead you into all kinds of dodgy deals, and I do wonder why it's so important after all.
The obvious thing is 'cos it saves you money'- but does it?

Ok, I buy an old Series 2a and don't have to pay the tax. But it's old, knackered with holes in the chassis more than likely. No problem- it gets fixed, but how much time and money to I have to keep spending on it just to get my 'free' tax?
On the other hand, I could buy a sorted tax-exempt one, but then it's going to cost a LOT more to buy. How many years road tax will it be costing(?)....and it'll STILL need things doing to it. All Land Rovers do, right?

The way I see it, tax exemption status is a benefit, but not the be all of it. I'd sooner have a vehicle that was legal with a fighting chance of keeping it on the road. If It means I have to pay a bit to the government, but can can put my feet up on a Sunday instead of struggling underneath the thing to get me 'free' road tax, then so be it.
I've spent far too many hours outside in the bleeding rain fixing these things over the years....:)

And no, I don't use this as an argument to buy a Defender! I'd sooner have a (good) series wagon every time.

(Grumpy old sod sermon over...):blabla:
 
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