200tdi into 1973 series 3 (historic)

lynall · Mar 23, 2022

300bhp/ton said:
"quick" is relative. But I'd hardly say slow with a good Tdi.

GPS clocked mine at 92mph on a private road. And it was quick enough to chase down a herd of Lotus Elises going round the reservoirs in the Elan valley a number of years ago. In wet with 4.75:1 gears it was perfect in 3rd gear to drift round corners and steer it on the throttle.

For a modern car, no it wasn't quick. For a Series Land Rover however it was flippin QUICK!

With 3.5 diffs its much the same as any other tdi, ie a plodder

Turboman · Mar 23, 2022

300bhp/ton said:
"quick" is relative. But I'd hardly say slow with a good Tdi.

GPS clocked mine at 92mph on a private road. And it was quick enough to chase down a herd of Lotus Elises going round the reservoirs in the Elan valley a number of years ago. In wet with 4.75:1 gears it was perfect in 3rd gear to drift round corners and steer it on the throttle.

For a modern car, no it wasn't quick. For a Series Land Rover however it was flippin QUICK!

A lot of it is to do with the driver. On the charity run last year, we had no difficulty keeping up with the Defenders in a standard 2286cc SWB.
They don't help themselves by loading up with roofracks, jerrycans, spare wheels, etc. mostly mounted high up on the vehicle.
They also have a strange affection for the pedal in the middle, which I have always found almost redundant on a Land Rover.
It won't help you go any faster, but it will waste a lot of fuel!

I know a few people with Di conversions in Series, and they seem to like them.
Performance isn't that important if all you are going to do is drive them to the odd rally and sit there drinking tea, which is what most Series owners do these days.

300bhp/ton · Mar 23, 2022

lynall said:
With 3.5 diffs its much the same as any other tdi, ie a plodder

Well how can I put this.... NO!!!!

Tdi engines are not plodders. I can only conclude you have never driven a modded one.

Let's also not forget a Series weighs less than a Defender also. So same power = better power to weight ratio.

This isn't the Series I was referring to previously. But this is a good example of how well a Tdi can go.

Some fun blasts against a mate in his Td5, which had only a day or so prior come back from the dyno and tuning...

Same vid just a bit later on, again showing the performance similarity.

300bhp/ton · Mar 23, 2022

Turboman said:
A lot of it is to do with the driver.

Point to point = yes
Top speed run, dynos, rolling races = No

Turboman said:
I know a few people with Di conversions in Series, and they seem to like them.
Performance isn't that important if all you are going to do is drive them to the odd rally and sit there drinking tea, which is what most Series owners do these days.

In that case, a 2.25 petrol is probably the better answer. So much smoother than a Tdi/Di and vastly more refined. With the same power too. MPG not so good, but as most are unlikely to do all that many miles a year. The cost per month to run either wouldn't be all that different.

2.5 NAD would probably also be cheaper than a 200Di conversion and offer approx the same performance and probably slightly better refinement due to not being direct injection. A good 19J Turbo Diesel would also make more power and torque than a Di and be a cheaper conversion. Hence the Di route is about the most pointless way to go. Especially when considering keeping the turbo is only really about 2 hrs work extra. Which would be offset by not spending time removing the turbo in the first place.

Turboman · Mar 23, 2022

300bhp/ton said:
Point to point = yes
Top speed run, dynos, rolling races = No

In that case, a 2.25 petrol is probably the better answer. So much smoother than a Tdi/Di and vastly more refined. With the same power too. MPG not so good, but as most are unlikely to do all that many miles a year. The cost per month to run either wouldn't be all that different.

2.5 NAD would probably also be cheaper than a 200Di conversion and offer approx the same performance and probably slightly better refinement due to not being direct injection. A good 19J Turbo Diesel would also make more power and torque than a Di and be a cheaper conversion. Hence the Di route is about the most pointless way to go. Especially when considering keeping the turbo is only really about 2 hrs work extra. Which would be offset by not spending time removing the turbo in the first place.

2286cc petrol are good, but they aren't that easy to come by these days.
If you get a good one, it is fine, but if it has a cracked block and/or head, reconditioning becomes very expensive.
Last time I spoke to Turner's, they would only do 2286cc petrol if you had a salvegeable head and block to send to them, they didn't have any good blocks to recondition.

I doubt if I would fit a Tdi in a Series at all now, with or without turbo. They are no longer plentiful either, although you can get them at a price.
I would more likely go with the 2.5 petrol, 2.5NA, or even a V8 if the original engine was no good.
19j would be a good option if it was very cheap.

lynall · Mar 23, 2022

300bhp/ton said:
Well how can I put this.... NO!!!!

Tdi engines are not plodders. I can only conclude you have never driven a modded one.

Let's also not forget a Series weighs less than a Defender also. So same power = better power to weight ratio.

This isn't the Series I was referring to previously. But this is a good example of how well a Tdi can go.

Some fun blasts against a mate in his Td5, which had only a day or so prior come back from the dyno and tuning...

Same vid just a bit later on, again showing the performance similarity.

Good engines, but defo plodders, they are not to keen on revving high either, longish stroke probably dont help, you can of course mess around with the governor set up.
Biggest issue with any modded tdi 200 or 300 is keeping the visible smoke down, and when off boost but large throttle openings it is all but impossible.
People always say after tuning them they are just clearing all the old snot out, they are of course talking out of their arse.
They are dirty old sheds, of that there is no doubt.

I think I have had 5 tdi motors, only 1 in std state of tune, two I still own.

300bhp/ton · Mar 23, 2022

lynall said:
Good engines, but defo plodders, they are not to keen on revving high either, longish stroke probably dont help, you can of course mess around with the governor set up.
Biggest issue with any modded tdi 200 or 300 is keeping the visible smoke down, and when off boost but large throttle openings it is all but impossible.
People always say after tuning them they are just clearing all the old snot out, they are of course talking out of their arse.
They are dirty old sheds, of that there is no doubt.

I think I have had 5 tdi motors, only 1 in std state of tune, two I still own.

Still not sure how you are associating "plodders" though. Max rpm or stroke length hardly has anything to do with this.

lynall · Mar 24, 2022

300bhp/ton said:
Still not sure how you are associating "plodders" though. Max rpm or stroke length hardly has anything to do with this.

Longer the stroke the slower revving the engine is, and generally the more torque they make.

300bhp/ton · Mar 24, 2022

lynall said:
Longer the stroke the slower revving the engine is, and generally the more torque they make.

But we are hardly talking giant ship engine with 250rpm max speed are we.

Tuned Tdi's rip through the revs. I just can't relate that they "plod" as that just isn't how they drive.

lynall · Mar 24, 2022

300bhp/ton said:
But we are hardly talking giant ship engine with 250rpm max speed are we.

Tuned Tdi's rip through the revs. I just can't relate that they "plod" as that just isn't how they drive.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree.

keith wainwright · Mar 25, 2022

Well this got a bit off topic ? Happy with wot i have its quick enough in standard state of tune. dont drink juice, no smoke at all at any revs. also the gearbox may last a while. I only meant to reassure people that DVLA will be nice if you try to be honest with what you say you have done.

Turboman · Mar 28, 2022

keith wainwright said:
Well this got a bit off topic ?

Not very by LZ standards.

Post about something a bit controversial, and you could be in for 20 pages or more of rants and passionate argument!

200tdi into 1973 series 3 (historic)

lynall

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300bhp/ton

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300bhp/ton

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300bhp/ton

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lynall

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