2004 TD4 - intake manifold ports leaking?

Hi y'all

Bit of a newbie to this site - you can say hello to me on this thread if you want to!

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f20/greetings-somerset-255463.html

I have recently undergone a service on my Freelander TD4. I did some research and have fitted the BMW crankcase filter thingy, and have a EGR bypass on standby. I only got half way through because of the following:-

When I got to remove the intake manifold, I was presented with a lot of gunk, some over the top of the R/H side of the manifold, but most in the chanel below where the intake ports are. Once popped off, it would appear that the gunk is emanating from the gaskets of the top ports (see pics) - this shouldn't happen - should it ? Anyway, I will be looking to get a new set of gaskets before cleaning up and refitting the manifold, but before I do this I want to make sure that there are no underlying issues.

Please see the attached photos.

I've had the Freelander for about a month. I have not had any problems with it running, cutting out or anything. OK a little sluggish, but we are on about 2 tonnes of iron here!!! Only on a cold start will it idle a little rough with unsettled revs but no serious cause for concern (perhaps sorting out the breathing will help this). I just hope it bloody starts when I put it all back together again!

Having read up on it - I was not surprised to see so much gunk in the EGR end, nor in the manifold actually (I am really looking forward to cleaning that I must admit!) - the carbon deposits on the inlet ports are a little concerning though - but I gather that there is no much I can do about this without running the risk of dropping crap into other sensitive parts of the engine.

My unqualified assumption is that the ports leaking may have something to do with the breathing/build up of carbon in the manifold? Or perhaps the manifold had been removed and refitted in the past, but not tight enough? Or maybe the gaskets have become defective - although upon inspection this does not seem to be the case (I will replace them regardless). As you can see from the pics - the gunk whilst spread throughout the chanel, seems to be more on the right hand side of the engine, and has managed to get on top of the manifold itself (on the right hand side). The hoses, whilst orginal, appear to be OK - but I will look more thoroughly at this as there is a hose beneath where the EGR was, that is caked in gunk too (possibly emanated from the EGR).

So, can I ask you knowledgable peeps:-

1. What is the likely cause of the gunk peeing out the inlet ports (or so it seems)?
2. Is my plan of EGR bypass, clean up manifold, replace gaskets, clean up engine, refit manifold a reasonable one - or do you think that there is other work required here?
3. Unrelated (I have researched this but am not too sure) - bit of a stupid one but is the turbocharger boost control solenoid valve vent filter only meant to be connected at one end?

I really appreciate your help here peeps - any good supplier recommendations for gaskets will also be gratefully received.

Cheers

Andrew

3 tins of oven cleaner (thanks Mr Muscle) and a very messy down stairs bathroom (the better half suggested this rather oddly) I now have my intake manifold soaking for the night.

I forgot to pop off the sensor before caking it with oven cleaner and rinsing - without referring to the Haynes manual I guess this is a temperature sensor, so fingers crossed it should be OK.

New gaskets on order (although I did forget one for the EGR - but that will be blanked anyways and I haven't checked if there is one on the device supplied).

The crud that comes out it is rather impressive, that's if you are impressed with being covered in ****... the bathroom looks a treat too!!!

Still the plan of action is to see how the manifold soaks (I may have to concede that not every bit of crap will come off); scrub and rinse number 3; refit sensor; scrub dirty engine block; refit intake manifold and other lung accessories; pressure test hoses.

Oh and fit a new turbocharger boost control solenoid valve vent filter (this is a rather over stated name for a bit of plastic), even if it does seem odd that it is only connected at one end.

I welcome any advice you may have, in particular the apparent nature of the leak on the engine block.

Cheers for now.

Andy

is the turbocharger boost control solenoid valve vent filter only meant to be connected at one end?

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yes

change it at 12k miles intervals aprox.
after 12k miles it appears ok when viewed thru the plastic ..
( obviously depending on conditions where you're driving )
but look thru the hole that's open to the atmosphere 'n compare it to a new one
you'll notice it will be slightly darker colour from dirt

I find petrol cleans that gunk off better than anything else.

as far as the gunk leaking out of the manifold:

with the egr valve still in place .. some hot exhaust gases will enter the manifold
then there's the small amount of oil that comes from the turbocharger ..
plus up to 30 psi aprox. of internal manifold pressure from the turbo boost ..
so if it's been driven with a heavy-right-foot .. use your imagination

( cruising @ 60 mph on the flat .. manifold pressure is about 17/18 psi )

if the crankcase breather filter has been neglected .. it'll probably add to the mess ..

( i've never had the intake manifold off mine .. as i deleted the egr @ 37k miles ..
( and it weren't too gunked up then )

The gunk is carbon. This is formed when oil mist thrown from the turbo gets ignited by the hot exhaust gasses passed into the manifold by the EGR valve.
Remove the EGR valve so no ignition takes place. The oil mist is then burnt off in normal combustion.

If the original PCV (Crankcase breather) was blocked, this would cause the Crank case to become pressurised-common problem which can cause oil to be blown out of the dipstick tube when the engine is running.
Cleaning the inlet manifold can do nothing but good, as can changing the PCV for the BMW cyclone type....no need to worry about blocked PCV filters !!
The EGR gasket is an "O" ring which is unlikely to have failed, but if it is brittle or perished it should be replaced with LKJ000070 price £1.36 + VAT.
Also get yourself a set of inlet manifold seals (4 X Round and 4 X Square) and that should do the top end.

Industrial de-greaser works great on the manifold. I nick, I mean borrow! it from work. Leaves it all nice and shiny inside.
Mike

hd3 said:

yes

change it at 12k miles intervals aprox.
after 12k miles it appears ok when viewed thru the plastic ..
( obviously depending on conditions where you're driving )
but look thru the hole that's open to the atmosphere 'n compare it to a new one
you'll notice it will be slightly darker colour from dirt

Click to expand...

Great thanks. I did notice the old one is almost white and the new one is clear plastic! I must admit my heart did sink a little when I saw it hanging there - even the Haynes manual doesn't explain, which I thought was a little odd.

Thanks all for your replies. I had no idea of those sorts of pressures being involved - I can perhaps understand why that crud breached the seals now, especially with the EGR in full flow. Anyways it looks like I am way on track then.

Manifold now clean as can be...
3 x lots of Mr Muscle
1 x over night soak in engine degreasant and 3/4 a tub of fairly liquid
1 x short soak in petrol
1 x trip down to the local garage to finally blast the last remnants of crap off it - not perfect but dam near it!
4 x bottle brushes down
1 x very dirty downstairs bath now cleaned
3 x lots of clothes washed
4 x showers

...all in the space of two days - I'm exhausted! I now have the manifold in the downstairs bathroom - now converted to a drying room - with an oil filled radiator, fan and dehumidifier rig.

4 x round gaskets and 4 x square ones delivered today.
1 x EGR gasket to be delivered tomorrow.
All non Landrover as the genuine parts were 3x more expensive?! I was a little concerned that the replacement manifold gaskets appear marginally smaller to the original, but I guess they must stretch somewhat - I've yet to hear a good word about Britpart yet either... but a gasket is a gasket, right?

Crankcase BMW mod already fitted and now EGR bypass to hop on - so job should be a good un tomorrow when I get to put it all back together (and get dirty cleaning the engine area again!)!!! Battery on charge I just hope it all goes well tomorrow.

Just another quick one if you could please:- gaskets fitted o'natural, or with something added - I've heard different advice here.

Thanks again

Britpart also supply OEM parts. You should not have a problem with the gaskets as long as the seating grooves are nice and clean. Do not put any gasket sealing compound on them....you can put a smear of silicone grease on them if you wish, but don't go mad with it.
Make sure that the vent valve filter is clipped/tied up and not just flopping about loose.
I am sure you will notice the difference when everything is back together.

A horrid job , but well worth doing , with the egr blanked as well , you will get better mpg

Irishrover said:

Britpart also supply OEM parts. You should not have a problem with the gaskets as long as the seating grooves are nice and clean. Do not put any gasket sealing compound on them....you can put a smear of silicone grease on them if you wish, but don't go mad with it.
Make sure that the vent valve filter is clipped/tied up and not just flopping about loose.
I am sure you will notice the difference when everything is back together.

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oi john.
get back to the rangy section.this place is not posh enough for the likes of you,lol.hope you are well matey.

gemsdad said:

oi john.
get back to the rangy section.this place is not posh enough for the likes of you,lol.hope you are well matey.

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:tea::smokin:
Hiya John Boy....doin fine, weather sunny at the moment our end. Hope all is good with yourself.
I keep popping my head over the parapet of the Rangie section now and again but it's really no different than on here......same old problems in the main, which have been covered a thousand times !!
Keith (Datatek) also keeps popping into this forum, I think he's looking at downsizing as his P38 doozel is getting too much to handle at his age !:hysterically_laughi
Take care Bud & stay lucky

Irishrover said:

:tea::smokin:
Hiya John Boy....doin fine, weather sunny at the moment our end. Hope all is good with yourself.
I keep popping my head over the parapet of the Rangie section now and again but it's really no different than on here......same old problems in the main, which have been covered a thousand times !!
Keith (Datatek) also keeps popping into this forum, I think he's looking at downsizing as his P38 doozel is getting too much to handle at his age !:hysterically_laughi
Take care Bud & stay lucky

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hi john.
yes mate same old same old,but hey it is what it is.my daughter and familywere in your neck of the woods last week,they had a nice few days as well.you can tell keith that,i won't be doing..
you take care also john.:beer2::beer2::beer2::beer2:

Andy welcome to landy zone, looks like you will have this sorted the problem with the work you have undertaken, good pics showing the problem, possibly the airbox was not tightened correctly ? as the rubber seals are reusable for many times , , your engine shoul be clean, and if its kept clean you can detect a problem easily,
the egr mod will help keep the plennum chamber clean, , but as you have not had the car for long , monitor the oil usage, just incase you have a turbo seal gone , ,
dont worry about the turbo vent, its a vent nothing more, not changed mine even after 140k

Hey up - all back together over the weekend and working fine. I am sure the pick up is a little better, but the other half doesn't notice a thing! I tightened the manifold bolts up to the Haynes recommended torque settings, so fingers crossed this should be AOK now - I took some time to clean up the engine bay so I should be able to detect if there is anything untoward in the up and coming weeks. I managed to do the fuel filter over the weekend too (the less said about that the better).

MOT booked next Monday, expecting to need some new rubber so I am considering a set of Pirelli STRs 235/55/17 which seem to have good feedback from the forum.

Anyway - thanks to you all for advice and help - fingers crossed this thread may help others that find themselves in a similar boat.