2.5D n/a lift pump

I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel
filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump
seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off it, and it
wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank.
Strange thing is, the vehicle was running perfectly before. Could the
suction side of the injector pump have been doing most of the work before?
And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel some
suction with my thumb over the inlet?

John

> I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel
> filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump
> seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off it, and it
> wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank.

The pump operating lever was probably on the cam making the external
lever ineffective. Rotate engine one turn and try again.

> And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel some
> suction with my thumb over the inlet?

Yes. Pity that you've taken the pump off, though!

"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new
fuel
> > filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift
pump
> > seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off it, and it
> > wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank.
>
> The pump operating lever was probably on the cam making the external
> lever ineffective. Rotate engine one turn and try again.

Yep, tried that first. But still no suction. That's why I took the pump
off.
Still can't understand why it was OK before?

> > And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel
some
> > suction with my thumb over the inlet?
>
> Yes. Pity that you've taken the pump off, though!

Why, I thought I might be able to repair it. But it doesn't look as if it
comes apart :-{

John

I've had lift pump trouble on my sherpa engine recently too!

I have bought a generic replacement lift pump from the local diesel
engines place. It looked identical to the original one i had, but i
now realise that it is slightly different - i think that the lever is
bent very slightly differently - enough that it isnt possible to hand
prime it with it on the engine as whatever position the cam is in it
still wont let the external lever work.
I now have to remove my lift pump from the block in order to prime it.
Have you tried doing that?. leave the fuel pipes connected, and just
pull it away from the block to prime it. I dont think you can feel
that much suction on that with it off the car and your thumb on it.

You may have to pump very hard/fast to initially get the air through
the pump but once you get to fuel it should go fairly smoothly.

A few years ago I had my injection pump recoditioned, and when i
reassembled it i found that my lift pump wouldnt lift and was infact
broken.
Once the fuel system is fully bled it seems to run okay without a
working lift pump - I had the injection pump reconditioned as the car
had a tendancy to be very slow to loose revs. We thought this was the
inejection pump, but it could just have been the lack of lift pump
meaning that fuel didnt move through quick enough.

Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so
you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some
sort of hybrid using a LR 2.25 petrol lift pump (which have
replaceable diaphrams), and the lever off your old sherpa one (the
only practical difference as far as i know - i tried to fit a petrol
one to mine but the lever is wrong)

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've had lift pump trouble on my sherpa engine recently too!
>
> I have bought a generic replacement lift pump from the local diesel
> engines place. It looked identical to the original one i had, but i
> now realise that it is slightly different - i think that the lever is
> bent very slightly differently - enough that it isnt possible to hand
> prime it with it on the engine as whatever position the cam is in it
> still wont let the external lever work.

Hi Tom
Thanks for that, I can see now that is exactly what this one was
doing. I wonder if a thicker gasket would solve that problem. Aren't the
Sherpa pumps the same as the Landrover pumps?

> I now have to remove my lift pump from the block in order to prime it.
> Have you tried doing that?. leave the fuel pipes connected, and just
> pull it away from the block to prime it. I dont think you can feel
> that much suction on that with it off the car and your thumb on it.
>
> You may have to pump very hard/fast to initially get the air through
> the pump but once you get to fuel it should go fairly smoothly.

As I have the pump on the bench already, I've connected a bit of
flexible pipe to the inlet and stuck the other end in a jerry can full of
diesel. Then worked the lever like mad.(tried this with both levers) Result
, no suction at all. Tried filling the pump with diesel to prime it too.
Even tried blowing diesel through it to flush it, in case there was a bit of
muck stuck under one of the valves. I think it's a duff pump....But the
engine was running perfectly before I changed the fuel filter.

>
> A few years ago I had my injection pump recoditioned, and when i
> reassembled it i found that my lift pump wouldnt lift and was infact
> broken.
> Once the fuel system is fully bled it seems to run okay without a
> working lift pump - I had the injection pump reconditioned as the car
> had a tendancy to be very slow to loose revs. We thought this was the
> inejection pump, but it could just have been the lack of lift pump
> meaning that fuel didnt move through quick enough.

Interesting. It's begining to look as if these engines will run without a
lift pump, once they've been bled!

> Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so
> you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some
> sort of hybrid using a LR 2.25 petrol lift pump (which have
> replaceable diaphrams), and the lever off your old sherpa one (the
> only practical difference as far as i know - i tried to fit a petrol
> one to mine but the lever is wrong)

Aren't these 2.5 pumps available from Landrover spares retailers?
John

"Oilierthanthou" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new
> fuel filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The
> lift pump seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off
> it, and it wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank.
> Strange thing is, the vehicle was running perfectly before. Could
> the suction side of the injector pump have been doing most of the
> work before? And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be
> able to feel some suction with my thumb over the inlet?

It has to suck fuel from the bottom of the fuel tank and push it through the
fuel system so yes, you should feel some suction.

If your fuel pipes aren't too wide a diameter and there's no air in the
system then the injector pump itself can sometimes provide enough suction to
keep running. Once you get a little air in though it'll stop running and
you'll then find the pump is knackered and wont bleed through.

If the pump wont come apart it's time for a replacement one.

--
FZS600 - Silver/Black
GS125 - Black/Rust
Ford 100E Prefect - Black, naturally
Whisky - Aberlour Cask Strength

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:38:12 +0100, "Oilierthanthou"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I think it's a duff pump....But the
>engine was running perfectly before I changed the fuel filter.

Sounds like its dead.
>
>>
>> A few years ago I had my injection pump recoditioned, and when i
>> reassembled it i found that my lift pump wouldnt lift and was infact
>> broken.
>> Once the fuel system is fully bled it seems to run okay without a
>> working lift pump - I had the injection pump reconditioned as the car
>> had a tendancy to be very slow to loose revs. We thought this was the
>> inejection pump, but it could just have been the lack of lift pump
>> meaning that fuel didnt move through quick enough.
>
> Interesting. It's begining to look as if these engines will run without a
>lift pump, once they've been bled!

I think they will, though you might notice a lack of power, or it
racing like mine was (not enough fuel). Probably doesnt help the
injection pump either

>> Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so
>> you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some
>> sort of hybrid using a LR 2.25 petrol lift pump (which have
>> replaceable diaphrams), and the lever off your old sherpa one (the
>> only practical difference as far as i know - i tried to fit a petrol
>> one to mine but the lever is wrong)
>
> Aren't these 2.5 pumps available from Landrover spares retailers?

Paddocks list em, so most places most likely do them.

I was just suggesting using the petrol one as an alternative if you
happen to already have one lying around!

"Oilierthanthou" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel
> filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump
> seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off it, and it
> wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank.
> Strange thing is, the vehicle was running perfectly before. Could the
> suction side of the injector pump have been doing most of the work before?
> And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel some
> suction with my thumb over the inlet?
>
> John

Most engines will operate perfectly without a lift pump until they need
bleeding.
If the pump is a non serviceable type then get a new one. If it can be
dismantled and is obviously meant to be dismantled, then it is repairable.
Most people don't bother any more.
You have the option of installing an electric lift pump like a Passet unit.
This is only really viable if you cannot get at the existing unit due to
installation constraints.

Huw

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:06:42 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>You have the option of installing an electric lift pump like a Passet unit.
>This is only really viable if you cannot get at the existing unit due to
>installation constraints.

Oooh!. I was just wondering about wether i could get an electric one
for mine. Do you mean a make called 'Passet', or do you mean Passat
like the cars made by VW? (they seem to have loads of useful bits
on!).
On that note is there many old cars which have electric diesel pumps
that i might find in the scrap yard?

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:38:12 +0100, "Oilierthanthou"

> > Interesting. It's begining to look as if these engines will run without
a
> >lift pump, once they've been bled!
>
> I think they will, though you might notice a lack of power, or it
> racing like mine was (not enough fuel). Probably doesnt help the
> injection pump either

This one was inexplicably racing occasionally. I think you've just solved
the mystery for me.
But why does a diesel race when it's sort of fuel? I would have expected it
to just splutter and die.

> >> Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so
> >> you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some
> >> sort of hybrid using a LR 2.25 petrol lift pump (which have
> >> replaceable diaphrams), and the lever off your old sherpa one (the
> >> only practical difference as far as i know - i tried to fit a petrol
> >> one to mine but the lever is wrong)
> >
> > Aren't these 2.5 pumps available from Landrover spares retailers?
>
> Paddocks list em, so most places most likely do them.
>
> I was just suggesting using the petrol one as an alternative if you
> happen to already have one lying around!

Right,.. yes I do have one lying around, so I tried it in the hole. The
stud centres are the same, but as you say the angle at which the lever meets
the cam is different. I think it's probably easier to buy a new pump.

My thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
John

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:06:42 +0100, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>You have the option of installing an electric lift pump like a Passet
>>unit.
>>This is only really viable if you cannot get at the existing unit due to
>>installation constraints.
>
> Oooh!. I was just wondering about wether i could get an electric one
> for mine. Do you mean a make called 'Passet', or do you mean Passat
> like the cars made by VW? (they seem to have loads of useful bits
> on!).

I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one
and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly
in time to replace because it was inside a fuel tank which was itself in a
difficult position. The replacement was plumbed outside the tank and the old
one was left in place with the new pump sucking fuel through it.

> On that note is there many old cars which have electric diesel pumps
> that i might find in the scrap yard?

The preferred method would be to repair/replace your existing mechanical
pump.

Huw

>
>I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one
>and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly
>in time to replace because it was inside a fuel tank which was itself in a
>difficult position. The replacement was plumbed outside the tank and the old
>one was left in place with the new pump sucking fuel through it.
>

ITYM 'Pacet', well known for fuel pumps. I have one on the 101...
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:59:48 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>>I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one
>>and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly
>>in time to replace because it was inside a fuel tank which was itself in a
>>difficult position. The replacement was plumbed outside the tank and the old
>>one was left in place with the new pump sucking fuel through it.
>>
>
>ITYM 'Pacet', well known for fuel pumps. I have one on the 101...

Thanks. I can find google hits for 'pacet'.

Think i might still look round at the scrappy. I have to get some bits
for mine as it is.

Huw - I think id rather have an electric pump. I dont seem to have
much luck with mechanical ones! (my engine is on its 3rd!). I wouldnt
mind so much if they were servicable items. I just dont like throwing
the whole thing away for a simple failure!

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:59:48 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>>I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one
>>and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly
>>in time to replace because it was inside a fuel tank which was itself in a
>>difficult position. The replacement was plumbed outside the tank and the old
>>one was left in place with the new pump sucking fuel through it.
>>
>
>ITYM 'Pacet', well known for fuel pumps. I have one on the 101...


That's rubbish Hobbs! Pacet make fans. Facet make fuel pumps!

Nurse!


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:04:11 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>That's rubbish Hobbs! Pacet make fans. Facet make fuel pumps!

I managed to find google hits about pacet fuel pumps so they must make
pumps too, or there are a lot of similarily confused people!