1985 Defender 90

Hi All,

I have a 1985 Defender and its a pain in the arse to start. It kicks out loads of white smoke and takes forever to kick up. Now with the Discovery and Freelander they have Relays to control the plugs. I am assuming with the Defender there is no such relay as the switch on and off action of the relay is control by the ignition key....... am I correct?

Secondly I am considering hard wiring the plugs like so...

Wire straight from the positive terminal on the battery to a switch on the dash then from the switch to the first plug.

Will this work anyone?

Thanks

Lukejpearson said:

Hi All,

I have a 1985 Defender and its a pain in the arse to start. It kicks out loads of white smoke and takes forever to kick up. Now with the Discovery and Freelander they have Relays to control the plugs. I am assuming with the Defender there is no such relay as the switch on and off action of the relay is control by the ignition key....... am I correct?

Secondly I am considering hard wiring the plugs like so...

Wire straight from the positive terminal to a switch on the dash then from the switch to the first plug.

Will this work anyone?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Assuming it is a 2.5TD the same as mine and there isn't anything majorly wrong then there are a couple of things you can do. Mine was an awful starter until recently!!! Now it is excellent, a couple of turns from cold and half a turn from hot - before I could flatten the battery trying

1. To preheat the engine (glow plugs) then turn the ignition key to the final stage before the starter and give it another half turn without turning the starter. An yellow light should come on (that looks like a choke light just to confuse matters) which is the preheater. Leave this for about 15 seconds from cold before twisting it all the way to start.

2. Don't even think about touching the accelerator when cranking the starter. If you do is will mess with the timing and won't start easily if at all!

3. At the top of the fuel filter is a banjo bolt. Remove this (dead easy) and look for the tiny hole in it which is usually blocked. Drill this out to 1mm and you will find that starting and general running is amazingly improved.

The only thing that confuses me from your description of the problem is the white smoke. I'd expect blue smoke which is unburnt diesel coming out of the exhaust. Usually white smoke indicates a problem with water getting into the fuel - it may be worth you using the drain plug on the base of the fuel filter to check there is no water in there.

Hope this helps

Richard

Thanks Richard that does help. I am considering the hard wire option as I think its the plugs not getting hot enough due to a wiring fault. Will the description in the first post work?

Thanks

richardjeaton said:

The only thing that confuses me from your description of the problem is the white smoke. I'd expect blue smoke which is unburnt diesel coming out of the exhaust. Usually white smoke indicates a problem with water getting into the fuel - it may be worth you using the drain plug on the base of the fuel filter to check there is no water in there.

Click to expand...

Blue is burning oil NOT unburnt Diesel.

White can be unburnt diesel or moisture/water in the fuel. A trained eye can tell these apart (I cant). Change the fuel filter, keep your fuel tank full. If its only happens when cold/on start up then i wouldnt worry too much, if it happens all the time then you may need to adjust your injector pump timing. CharlesY did a good write up on here somewhere, do a search.

G

Luke, you will need a relay in that system otherwise the current flow from the batt to plugs will melt your dash.

may be worth taking the plugs out, keep them on the wiring harness, hold them in some mole grips and check they glow red hot. are they new plugs? that way you know your wiring is fine and saves messing around with new circuits.

G

yes your wiring will work

well, assuming that your wires and switch can take the current - about 60 amps i think.

Thanks Boydy. Do you have any idea where the relay is on the Defender?

richardjeaton said:

Assuming it is a 2.5TD the same as mine and there isn't anything majorly wrong then there are a couple of things you can do.

The only thing that confuses me from your description of the problem is the white smoke. I'd expect blue smoke which is unburnt diesel coming out of the exhaust. Usually white smoke indicates a problem with water getting into the fuel - it may be worth you using the drain plug on the base of the fuel filter to check there is no water in there.

Hope this helps

Richard

Click to expand...

White smoke is vaporised diesel that didn't quite ignite.
It vaporised due to the heat of compression, just not quite hot enough to light it.

He needs MORE GLOW, or a FASTER STARTER (bigger battery) or Both!
When did he last see the glow plugs? Time for a new set of BEST QUALITY ones?

Your other advice is spot on.

Oil burning smoke is a positively BLUE colour.

CharlesY

richardjeaton said:

I'd expect blue smoke which is unburnt diesel coming out of the exhaust.

Click to expand...

Blue: that would be oil!

Lukejpearson said:

Thanks Boydy. Do you have any idea where the relay is on the Defender?

Click to expand...

by 'the' relay i guess you mean the glow plugs relay. Your 90 wont have one as standard, the current goes through the ignition switch.

Get a big one, and fit it.

Or get a high current switch - they are available.

boydy1989 said:

by 'the' relay i guess you mean the glow plugs relay. Your 90 wont have one as standard, the current goes through the ignition switch.

Get a big one, and fit it.

Or get a high current switch - they are available.

Click to expand...

You can be absolutely sure the DEf 90 DOES have a glow plug relay.

There is NO possibility of glow plug current being switched through the IGN switch directly. The switch would melt in seconds under the load.

Don't confuse a TIMER relay with a plain relay. I think the Def90 uses a plain relay - YOU decide how long to glow it.

CharlesY

[pedant]


******caution******

you do not have a defender 90


its from 1985



the defender 90 didn't arrive til 1990



you have a LAND ROVER 90



[/pedant]

CharlesY said:

You can be absolutely sure the DEf 90 DOES have a glow plug relay.

There is NO possibility of glow plug current being switched through the IGN switch directly. The switch would melt in seconds under the load.

Don't confuse a TIMER relay with a plain relay. I think the Def90 uses a plain relay - YOU decide how long to glow it.

CharlesY

Click to expand...

Im afraid, mr CharlesY, on this bit you are actually wrong!

There is definitely NO relay on the glow plug system on either mine or my good friends 90, both from 1984, until recently both with original engines etc in.

i didn't believe it either, but I took the console out, and followed the wire from the switch, out through the bulkhead to the plugs.

They have a LARGE Lu-car connector on the, (the 70amp one i think) which on mine has obviously got quite warm, as the plastic cover on it is a bit melted. But, no relay.

I do know the difference between a timer relay and a normal relay an all!

We recently fitted a new ignition switch and barrel to my mates 90, it was a barrel i took of a petrol 109 for him, which was good in some ways 'cos it meant that we could have 2 stage ignition, i.e. electrics, ignition, start, so that you could have radio etc on with no ignition etc, but we did have to wire the plugs into a new switch. He had lying around a BIG switch for an old DC motor or something, they are now switched by that. No relay though.

Ill take piccies if you want!


(he he he am proud now... )