help wanted . I have a 08 defender 110 puma which engine has been remapped, on a trip down to southern Spain ( day time temp 40C ) transmission box and tunnel got so hot it caused the engine to lose power briefly , the wiring loom also got so hot you could smell the wiring ,this happened all day long when temp dropped at night problem disappeared, all fluids were changed befor trip and changed during trip , problem still happened, local garage told me to have remote transmission oil cooler fitted! However I can't find anything on the web that will fit . Has anybody else had this problem? , can I just fit a remote rad with a pump and solinoid, if so can I come off the drain plug and back to the sump plate ? Any advise would be great.
110 puma transmission over hear
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Personally I would not see the transmission getting hot as a problem especially as you are in 40 degree temperatures. How do they cope in Africa etc? And I don't see how fitting an oil cooler would help in those temperatures. Also. how would that cause a brief engine power loss, I would be looking at other possible causes - has the EGR done a cycle? Gear box oil is a 200,000km service item, transfer box and diffs 80,000km item (although I do mine much sooner). Provided oil grades and quantities are correct I would not worry about it.
In that temperature and at continuous high speed the transmission is going to get hot.
I've read elsewhere people complaining that the tdci transmission tunnel can get very hot.
Also with the remap you are pushing it harder than it's design loading.
You might want to see if Land Rover recommend a different engine/trans oil for hot countrie (although they claim the trans oil is good for 200,000 l used to have a Transit tdci and people were changing the trans oil at 60,000. I dropped mine at 80,000 and it was brown....) I know also that the TD5 takes a 5w/30 engine oil but in ambient temperatures of 40deg they recommend a 5w/40 or 5w/50.
Don't know if the tdci has a similar recommendation?
I've read elsewhere people complaining that the tdci transmission tunnel can get very hot.
Also with the remap you are pushing it harder than it's design loading.
You might want to see if Land Rover recommend a different engine/trans oil for hot countrie (although they claim the trans oil is good for 200,000 l used to have a Transit tdci and people were changing the trans oil at 60,000. I dropped mine at 80,000 and it was brown....) I know also that the TD5 takes a 5w/30 engine oil but in ambient temperatures of 40deg they recommend a 5w/40 or 5w/50.
Don't know if the tdci has a similar recommendation?
From what I have read up on ROW use a different gear box / casing not sure how true this is ! Landry was pushed hard , tunnel and hand brake got so hot you could not touch ! All fluids were changed befor trip and during , no engine faults were found , wiring loom also very hot not sure if this could cause engine fault! Return journey RPM keep to 2000 and below this made no difference, when driving through the night this problem did not happen, and when we got to northern Spain and France it did not happen . Transmission temperature must be a factor as that is the only difference. the garage which changed the fluids in Spain ( they worked on high proformance vehicles) told me to get a transmission cooler installed ! .
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My handbook for 2.2tdci, and workshop manual for 2.4 tdci only mentions 5W30 oil, no mention of different grades for different climates. As I understand it, the 5 is low viscosity at ambient temperatures for start up, and 30 is the higher viscosity at operating temperature. As the engine is designed to use 30 when hot, why would it be necessary to use a higher viscosity even in a hot climate? to me it makes more sense to use an oil with a lower cold start viscosity, say an 0W30, which would probably be at 5W30 in a hot climate? Surely a thicker oil would result in increased oil pressure and just pop any relief valve earlier? Ejicate me please.
My handbook for 2.2tdci, and workshop manual for 2.4 tdci only mentions 5W30 oil, no mention of different grades for different climates. As I understand it, the 5 is low viscosity at ambient temperatures for start up, and 30 is the higher viscosity at operating temperature. As the engine is designed to use 30 when hot, why would it be necessary to use a higher viscosity even in a hot climate? to me it makes more sense to use an oil with a lower cold start viscosity, say an 0W30, which would probably be at 5W30 in a hot climate? Surely a thicker oil would result in increased oil pressure and just pop any relief valve earlier? Ejicate me please.
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From what you have said, the difference is in the ambient temperature, the high transmission temperature is the consequence not the cause. I cannot see how putting an oil cooler into a hot ambient climate will cool it down? or am I missing something?
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Don't know, but engines tend to get hotter when standing still, hence temp controlled cooling fans, so probably would work. You would need to consider what level to fix a cooling rad as this could affect the oil level in the gear box. Also need to increase the quantity of oil in the revised system. Is there any way you could scoop some air and direct it over the gearbox so it gets the benefit of more air, it is a bit shrouded from air flow down there? Maybe a duct from the heater (set on cold) and blow air over it? (been drinking beer so this might be a bit wacky).
Drinking beer is GOOD
There must be a fairly simple solution to this ! Apart from don't drive when it's that hot. There is a bigger transmission sump that's fits on the MT82 gearbox and LT320 casing but that won't fit on TDCi as the exhaust pipe is in the way. This is a known problem but as of yet no one has come up with a solution!
I have Emailed Ashcroft will let you know what there reply is
There must be a fairly simple solution to this ! Apart from don't drive when it's that hot. There is a bigger transmission sump that's fits on the MT82 gearbox and LT320 casing but that won't fit on TDCi as the exhaust pipe is in the way. This is a known problem but as of yet no one has come up with a solution!
I have Emailed Ashcroft will let you know what there reply is
The ROW spec for the earlier gearboxes includes an oil cooler, and they are available as an after market item from the likes of Ashcroft Transmissions, and other sources.
Viz:- http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/miscellaneous/r380-oil-cooler-kit/r380-oil-cooler-kit.html
I have an upgraded cooler on the auto in my D1 made to my spec by this firm:-
www.alutec.co.uk
Defo worth doing as the temperature stay low, even under heavy towing.
Viz:- http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/miscellaneous/r380-oil-cooler-kit/r380-oil-cooler-kit.html
I have an upgraded cooler on the auto in my D1 made to my spec by this firm:-
www.alutec.co.uk
Defo worth doing as the temperature stay low, even under heavy towing.
A transmission oil cooler will definitely reduce the transmission temperature, in the same way that an engine oil cooler reduces engine temperature.
I doubt you'd need one in the UK, but in countries where the ambient temperature reaches 40deg C it may be a good thing.
I doubt you'd need one in the UK, but in countries where the ambient temperature reaches 40deg C it may be a good thing.
ifloochies
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In my opinion ambient temperatures of 40C is quite warm so you can expect things run hotter than usual. If all fluids are up to par as you're saying then I'm guessing its really an issue of the box heating up as result of heat soak from the exhaust system. What is the proximity of the exhaust pipework to the box? Bear in mind that at 40C, engine air intake temperature even after intercooler would be higher, by virtue of the fact that heat exchange at the intercooler would be significantly reduced. As a result you can expect to have higher exhaust gas temperatures at highway speeds on a long run. It is my opinion that the gearbox then gradually heats up as a result of heat soak from the hot exhaust pipework which would be radiating heat to its surroundings faster in such relatively higher ambient temperatures. At night and at cooler ambient temperatures, engine would run cooler as air intake is colder, radiated heat from exhaust pipework would be significantly reduced as the colder night air clings to and cools the exhaust. Assuming the gearbox had a problem or had insufficient cooling, it would overheat day or night.
Problem is, you're feeling the heat in the cabin because there may be insufficient insulation in and around the transmission tunnel.....that's my 2 cents on your problem.
Problem is, you're feeling the heat in the cabin because there may be insufficient insulation in and around the transmission tunnel.....that's my 2 cents on your problem.
frog hopper
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Would it make any real difference to try and get more air into the engine bay?, are there spots fixed across the front?
I have taken the viscous fan off my 90 (it was stuffed anyway) and replaced with a kenlow (which only ever cuts in when off-road) and also removed the fan shroud for easier access to the mechanicals. If the original fan isn't quite up to spec the shroud will restrict air-flow.
I don't know about the modern defenders but with my 200 Tdi I could replace the wing top blank with an air scoop type similar to that which I put on the heater inlet side.
A bit extreme but I have seen defenders with cooling holes cut into the sides of the bonnet (probably because it looks "well hard") there might be scope to fit a couple of baffles inside the chassis legs to try and get a bit more forced draught around the box.
What's the chance of fitting a bit of plate as a heat deflector next to the exhaust, or getting a custom exhaust made up out of standard bits from different engines/models to get it further away from the box? - so you can replace cheaply when rotten.
I have taken the viscous fan off my 90 (it was stuffed anyway) and replaced with a kenlow (which only ever cuts in when off-road) and also removed the fan shroud for easier access to the mechanicals. If the original fan isn't quite up to spec the shroud will restrict air-flow.
I don't know about the modern defenders but with my 200 Tdi I could replace the wing top blank with an air scoop type similar to that which I put on the heater inlet side.
A bit extreme but I have seen defenders with cooling holes cut into the sides of the bonnet (probably because it looks "well hard") there might be scope to fit a couple of baffles inside the chassis legs to try and get a bit more forced draught around the box.
What's the chance of fitting a bit of plate as a heat deflector next to the exhaust, or getting a custom exhaust made up out of standard bits from different engines/models to get it further away from the box? - so you can replace cheaply when rotten.
From reading your post you say you are driving your Defender "hard".
It's also been remapped.
And you are in 40deg ambient heat.
The remap is probably dumping an extra 30% torque through the drive train, possibly more.
I'm not surprised the transmission tunnel is getting hot!
It's also been remapped.
And you are in 40deg ambient heat.
The remap is probably dumping an extra 30% torque through the drive train, possibly more.
I'm not surprised the transmission tunnel is getting hot!
zeaphod
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Might be worth trying exhaust wrap to reduce the heat transferred to the gearbox.
Sounds like Dave Ashcroft now on the case ! So far he thinks a external electric pump will not work that well (something about not 100% duty cycle)so they are looking at a small oil pump on PTO transfer case !
Will look at trying to get more air flow from top of wings to underneath, also does exhaust wrap work as this would be easier that rerouting exhaust pipe
Will look at trying to get more air flow from top of wings to underneath, also does exhaust wrap work as this would be easier that rerouting exhaust pipe
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I think ifloochies is spot on with his heat soak theory. Adding a gear box oil cooler would require another rad, probably in front of the cooling rad and intercooler, reducing the cooling to the engine which will now get hotter and continue to heat up the gear box. In other words all the heat is going round in circles. Took a quick look underneath my tdci just now, the drivers side of the gear box is totally screened by the exhaust cat which is bolted to the back of the engine by the bell housing, you would not get any heat wrap on it (and if you could it would not do the cat any good?) as there is no working room. It is a BIG lump, gets extremely hot and dumps the heat straight on to the gear box and bulkhead at the drivers feet. No wonder the hand brake lever gets hot. From a quick inspection it would be possible to bend a bit of sheet metal into some form of air scoop and attach it to the front anti roll bar (with u-bolts) and stabilise it to the bracket which protects the steering rod. This would improve air flow where it is needed, and not through the engine bay (which might get the electrics soaked in wet weather). But the best solution IMHO is get rid of the cat during trips into hot climate. And wrap the decat pipe.
