110 Drop arm ball joint-How difficult?

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J

John Stokes

Guest
In between the rain which according to the BBC is down in Cornwall(I'm in
Staffordshire and its p***ing down!), I'm working my way through jobs for
MOT.

Most of them are run of the mill jobs which I've done before, but it's
failed on the drop arm ball joint. Looking at the kit it seems to include a
lot of bits and Haynes says it's a dealer job which needs special tools. My
experience of 'Special tools', is that most of the time you don't actually
need them. Has anyone on here had experience of doing one of these and is
it manageable, or would I be better doing the rest and letting my friendly
Land rover mechanic do the ball joint?
Cheers, John



 
If the kit of parts is the pin, seat spring etc then i have done on on mine,
the only bit i couldn't get out was the seat, despite lots and lots of heat!
in the end i left that in and just replaced the other parts and all seems
ok.

Gary


"John Stokes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In between the rain which according to the BBC is down in Cornwall(I'm in
> Staffordshire and its p***ing down!), I'm working my way through jobs for
> MOT.
>
> Most of them are run of the mill jobs which I've done before, but it's
> failed on the drop arm ball joint. Looking at the kit it seems to include
a
> lot of bits and Haynes says it's a dealer job which needs special tools.
My
> experience of 'Special tools', is that most of the time you don't actually
> need them. Has anyone on here had experience of doing one of these and is
> it manageable, or would I be better doing the rest and letting my friendly
> Land rover mechanic do the ball joint?
> Cheers, John
>
>
>


 
"gaza" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> If the kit of parts is the pin, seat spring etc then i have done on on
> mine, the only bit i couldn't get out was the seat, despite lots and
> lots of heat! in the end i left that in and just replaced the other
> parts and all seems ok.
>
> Gary
>
>
> "John Stokes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In between the rain which according to the BBC is down in
>> Cornwall(I'm in Staffordshire and its p***ing down!), I'm working my
>> way through jobs for MOT.
>>
>> Most of them are run of the mill jobs which I've done before, but
>> it's failed on the drop arm ball joint. Looking at the kit it seems
>> to include
> a
>> lot of bits and Haynes says it's a dealer job which needs special
>> tools.
> My
>> experience of 'Special tools', is that most of the time you don't
>> actually need them. Has anyone on here had experience of doing one
>> of these and is it manageable, or would I be better doing the rest
>> and letting my friendly Land rover mechanic do the ball joint?
>> Cheers, John
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Same here. Just leave the seat in as it seems to be the last bit to wear.
Quite do-able. Though having the morphology of an octopus would be handy.
Use a small jack to depress the spring and maybe a socket. Can't remember.
I definitely did NOT need to remove the drop arm (which is just as well
because I gather from Google that can be a bitch), nor did I need any
special tools. If I can do it, most here can do it. P.S. Mine was a D90 if
that makes any difference.

Derry
 
>Same here. Just leave the seat in as it seems to be the last bit to wear.
>Quite do-able. Though having the morphology of an octopus would be handy.
>Use a small jack to depress the spring and maybe a socket. Can't remember.
>I definitely did NOT need to remove the drop arm (which is just as well
>because I gather from Google that can be a bitch), nor did I need any
>special tools. If I can do it, most here can do it. P.S. Mine was a D90 if
>that makes any difference.
>
>Derry


Not replacing the upper seat is a false economy. The seat will
eventually wear so much that it is impossible to remove and then you
will require a new drop arm. If you still have up and down movement in
the ball joint after you have fitted the kit then the upper seat is US.
The upper seat is easily removed with right tool.

This your steering we are talking about !

I have seen too many of these kits bodged.

pay your local specialist a few quid and get the job done properly.
--
Marc
 
On or around Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:40:36 +0100, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Not replacing the upper seat is a false economy. The seat will
>eventually wear so much that it is impossible to remove and then you
>will require a new drop arm. If you still have up and down movement in
>the ball joint after you have fitted the kit then the upper seat is US.
>The upper seat is easily removed with right tool.

buggered if I know what the right tool is. Last one I did I heated the seat
with an oxy torch to soften it, and then cut through it with a hacksaw,
which made it easy to knock out.

>This your steering we are talking about !
>
>I have seen too many of these kits bodged.
>
>pay your local specialist a few quid and get the job done properly.

if, of course, you have a suitable specialist...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25
 
The way,*without removing the drop arm* is to
get a trolly jack,place a small socket on the jack and raise under
the plate on the joint.apply alittle pressure pushing the plate up so
you can remove the circlip.you can then slowly drop the jack down and
remove the retaining plate,outter ball retaining cup,ball
joint,rubber ring,and spring.now you have to get the cup out.with a
piece of 3/8" threaded rod,appx 6"long.place two nuts,locked
together,2"from the top,insert a suitable socket(that will go into
the joint from the top)insert into and through the arm from the top
place a plate with 3/8"hole under the bottom of the arm,locate a nut
on the rod and draw the cup out,by tightening the nut.clean the arm
seating throughly,place the new cup and ball<with a *little
grease*>DONOT put too much in as it will not compress and draw back through
using the ball to seat the cup firmly in its seat regrease replacing
all componants,including the rubber seal that most leave out!! by
placing the socket on the jack and compressing.make sure the circlip
is located correctly.replace nut,washer AND splitpin.torque up hey
presto you've done for a few years




--
Regards


David J. Button
"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:40:36 +0100, Marc Draper
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Not replacing the upper seat is a false economy. The seat will
>>eventually wear so much that it is impossible to remove and then you
>>will require a new drop arm. If you still have up and down movement in
>>the ball joint after you have fitted the kit then the upper seat is US.
>>The upper seat is easily removed with right tool.
>
> buggered if I know what the right tool is. Last one I did I heated the
> seat
> with an oxy torch to soften it, and then cut through it with a hacksaw,
> which made it easy to knock out.
>
>>This your steering we are talking about !
>>
>>I have seen too many of these kits bodged.
>>
>>pay your local specialist a few quid and get the job done properly.
>
> if, of course, you have a suitable specialist...
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> "Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25


 
"David J. Button" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The way,*without removing the drop arm* is to
> get a trolly jack,place a small socket on the jack and raise under
> the plate on the joint.apply alittle pressure pushing the plate up so
> you can remove the circlip.you can then slowly drop the jack down and
> remove the retaining plate,outter ball retaining cup,ball
> joint,rubber ring,and spring.now you have to get the cup out.with a
> piece of 3/8" threaded rod,appx 6"long.place two nuts,locked
> together,2"from the top,insert a suitable socket(that will go into
> the joint from the top)insert into and through the arm from the top
> place a plate with 3/8"hole under the bottom of the arm,locate a nut
> on the rod and draw the cup out,by tightening the nut.clean the arm
> seating throughly,place the new cup and ball<with a *little
> grease*>DONOT put too much in as it will not compress and draw back
> through using the ball to seat the cup firmly in its seat regrease
> replacing all componants,including the rubber seal that most leave
> out!! by placing the socket on the jack and compressing.make sure the
> circlip is located correctly.replace nut,washer AND splitpin.torque up
> hey presto you've done for a few years
>
>
>
>

I used a G clamp.

Couldn't get the cup out by any legal means, so left it in. The lip left
for the socket to sit on seems to be VERY thin. Yes, there is a special
tool...

Can't really see a problem here as it is the ball that wears. Even if the
cup does wear, so what? That is not the critical item. It is the spring
which prevents up-down movement, not wear in the cup.

BTW, I rather stupidly dismantled the joint to see how it was put together
before ordering the new parts! Dismantling is easy. It is re-assembly which
is the problem. So have all your new parts and the tools for putting it
back together (which involves compressing that spring and inserting the
circlip all at the same time) ready before you begin.

Steering specialist? In the north of Scotland? Oh, that will be the
Inverness dealership...at over £50 per hour! :(

Derry
 
Derry Argue wrote:

> "David J. Button" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> The way,*without removing the drop arm* is to
>> get a trolly jack,place a small socket on the jack and raise under
>> the plate on the joint.apply alittle pressure pushing the plate up so
>> you can remove the circlip.you can then slowly drop the jack down and
>> remove the retaining plate,outter ball retaining cup,ball
>> joint,rubber ring,and spring.now you have to get the cup out.with a
>> piece of 3/8" threaded rod,appx 6"long.place two nuts,locked
>> together,2"from the top,insert a suitable socket(that will go into
>> the joint from the top)insert into and through the arm from the top
>> place a plate with 3/8"hole under the bottom of the arm,locate a nut
>> on the rod and draw the cup out,by tightening the nut.clean the arm
>> seating throughly,place the new cup and ball<with a *little
>> grease*>DONOT put too much in as it will not compress and draw back
>> through using the ball to seat the cup firmly in its seat regrease
>> replacing all componants,including the rubber seal that most leave
>> out!! by placing the socket on the jack and compressing.make sure the
>> circlip is located correctly.replace nut,washer AND splitpin.torque up
>> hey presto you've done for a few years
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I used a G clamp.
>
> Couldn't get the cup out by any legal means, so left it in. The lip left
> for the socket to sit on seems to be VERY thin. Yes, there is a special
> tool...
>
> Can't really see a problem here as it is the ball that wears. Even if the
> cup does wear, so what? That is not the critical item. It is the spring
> which prevents up-down movement, not wear in the cup.
>
> BTW, I rather stupidly dismantled the joint to see how it was put together
> before ordering the new parts! Dismantling is easy. It is re-assembly
> which is the problem. So have all your new parts and the tools for putting
> it back together (which involves compressing that spring and inserting the
> circlip all at the same time) ready before you begin.
>
> Steering specialist? In the north of Scotland? Oh, that will be the
> Inverness dealership...at over £50 per hour! :(
>
> Derry

Both the sockets (cups) as well as the ball wear, and relatively little wear
on the bottom socket will allow the two sockets to touch, so the spring
does not stop movement. And not much more wear will allow the ball to drop
right though, something you really don't want to have happen.
It is worth noting though, that these joints will last virtually a lifetime,
PROVIDED THE RUBBER DUST COVER IS UNDAMAGED. As soon as it has the
slightest split in it, it lets dirt and water in, and you might as well
order a replacement (if you noticed the damage!). When I replaced mine
after about 250,000km, I found the dust cover had a split about 1mm long on
the front where a stone or a stick had cut it against the lip on the arm.
JD
 
I image M+D's would simply replace the steering box and the drop arm...

I have the correct tool Derry, so when you next need it, shout! Last
time I used it the seat was so worn that even it didn't work correctly
the first time - I needed to weld blobs onto the seat so that it would
catch it and pull it through.

Regards

William MacLeod

 
In message <[email protected]>
"John Stokes" <[email protected]> wrote:

> In between the rain which according to the BBC is down in Cornwall(I'm in
> Staffordshire and its p***ing down!), I'm working my way through jobs for
> MOT.
>
> Most of them are run of the mill jobs which I've done before, but it's
> failed on the drop arm ball joint. Looking at the kit it seems to include a
> lot of bits and Haynes says it's a dealer job which needs special tools. My
> experience of 'Special tools', is that most of the time you don't actually
> need them. Has anyone on here had experience of doing one of these and is
> it manageable, or would I be better doing the rest and letting my friendly
> Land rover mechanic do the ball joint?
> Cheers, John
>
>
>

Personaly, I've always managed to get the seat out using a drift,
well ok, a screw driver. Some use a good dose of heat to help things
along. You dont need to take the drop arm off, use a trolley jack
as a mobile "bench". When re-assembling, put all the upper components
together and fit the drag link - then use a g-clamp with a small
socket (remembering to put the circlip round the socket first) to
squash things together to get the circlip in. Make sure the slot the
the circlip goes in is un-damaged and nice and clean, otherwise
a large quantity of Language (Part No. $"£"%"!* - always in stock)
will be required.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I image M+D's would simply replace the steering box and the drop arm...
>
> I have the correct tool Derry, so when you next need it, shout! Last
> time I used it the seat was so worn that even it didn't work correctly
> the first time - I needed to weld blobs onto the seat so that it would
> catch it and pull it through.
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod
>

As usual, Willie, you are very kind. I shall report back after the next
150,000 miles!<g>

When I "repaired" mine, I found it had not been tightened up sufficiently
which is why it was rattling. I think I have the old one in the cupboard
with the other spares that have life left in them and I can't bear to throw
out. (Waste not, want not).

Re: M&D, I hardly think replacing the steering box and drop arm would be
sufficient. Wouldn't it need a complete new front suspension?<g>

Any time you want an introduction to that Discovery, give me a shout and I
will fix up a meeting.

Derry
 


> The way,*without removing the drop arm* is to
> get a trolly jack,place a small socket on the jack and raise under
> the plate on the joint.apply alittle pressure pushing the plate up so
> you can remove the circlip.you can then slowly drop the jack down and
> remove the retaining plate,outter ball retaining cup,ball
> joint,rubber ring,and spring.now you have to get the cup out.with a
> piece of 3/8" threaded rod,appx 6"long.place two nuts,locked
> together,2"from the top,insert a suitable socket(that will go into
> the joint from the top)insert into and through the arm from the top
> place a plate with 3/8"hole under the bottom of the arm,locate a nut
> on the rod and draw the cup out,by tightening the nut.clean the arm
> seating throughly,place the new cup and ball<with a *little
> grease*>DONOT put too much in as it will not compress and draw back through
> using the ball to seat the cup firmly in its seat regrease replacing
> all componants,including the rubber seal that most leave out!! by
> placing the socket on the jack and compressing.make sure the circlip
> is located correctly.replace nut,washer AND splitpin.torque up hey
> presto you've done for a few years

Hey thats my design yer talking about. I put that one on here ages ago,
looks like it's served it's purpose for many. Best and easiest way too.
Dont forget DONT put too much grease in the cup as you will not suceed
in compressing the lot together as hydrolic compression will occur. POP.
Dave

--
Amateur Radio Call Sign M1BTI, Located in Manchester England.
Locator square IO83TK
Chairman Of Trafford Radio Club. Club Call Signs G0TRG & M1BBP
Located at Umist, University Of Manchester Institute For Science And
Technology
Share What You Know, Learn What You Dont.
 
To chuck in my 2p's worth, I use a small two leg puller to compress the
spring and get the circlip and backplate out (and back in) - far easier
than the jack and balanced socket trick ... if necessary, centre pop the
ouside of the seat to give a location point for the puller shaft.
I usually use the jack as the mobile knocking post with a drift for the
top seat but I find that the radiused finish to the end of most sockets
makes them useless as a drift - a screwdriver, pin punch or small
diameter bar has always been more successful for me. However an old
socket or bit of round bar of exactly the right size with a nice square
end works best ...
--
AndyG
 
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