110 300tdi Clutch Judder at 1st gear

[TurkeyLandy]

Greetings, My dad has an 1998 110 300TDI Defender. We had it since 2013 and when we bought it the clutch used to slip at 1st gear on hills. We tought just the clutch was going bad and kept it and it actually was fine for years it just slip at 1st gear when taking off sometimes. In 2021 we rebuilt the engine and changed the clutch while doing that. The clutch was worn out when we changed. But the slipping did not stop it got even worse. So the clutch slips (studders) at start of 1st gear and after that it is mostly fine. The new clutch is a Valeo one and the prevouis owner changed the clutch master with one from a Hyundai Accent/Starex for the clutch action to be softer. The slave is new/orignal and we are confident that the clutch changing process was done well. Does anyone had any similar problems?
We think that the problem could be from the mismatched or worn out clutch master or bad hydrolic lines that collaps.
The master is in a pretty bad spot right near the fender since the car is a LHD model and it it really hard to get tool in there so changing the master is kind of a last resort.
What are your opinions? Thanks in advance

 

[Stanleysteamer]

Clutch judder isn't the same as clutch slip.
You say that after first gear it is "mostly" fine.
Could you clarify what you mean by that?
Does it slip going up hills, especially in higher gears?

Clutch judder can be caused by a variety of things, like contaminated clutch plate, the flywheel being warped, etc.
See this.

Car juddering – causes, meaning and how to fix it | The AA

Find out more about what car juddering means and how to fix it fast. Get tips to diagnose it and resolve the issue quickly.

www.theaa.com

 

[TurkeyLandy]

Clutch judder isn't the same as clutch slip.
You say that after first gear it is "mostly" fine.
Could you clarify what you mean by that?
Does it slip going up hills, especially in higher gears?

Clutch judder can be caused by a variety of things, like contaminated clutch plate, the flywheel being warped, etc.
See this.

Car juddering – causes, meaning and how to fix it | The AA

Find out more about what car juddering means and how to fix it fast. Get tips to diagnose it and resolve the issue quickly.

www.theaa.com

Ok you are right. It judders does and not slip at 1st gear . The reason I said mostly is because it did slip in higher gears (3rd-4th) 4-5 times since 2021. Other than that there aren't any slipping it judders. And the flywheel was turned after changing the clutch. The rear crank seal was replaced when we rebuild the engine and there was no oil in the bell-housing when we seperated the transmission.

 

[Stanleysteamer]

Ok you are right. It judders does and not slip at 1st gear . The reason I said mostly is because it did slip in higher gears (3rd-4th) 4-5 times since 2021. Other than that there aren't any slipping it judders. And the flywheel was turned after changing the clutch. The rear crank seal was replaced when we rebuild the engine and there was no oil in the bell-housing when we seperated the transmission.

You say "turned" Do you mean skimmed, or turned round so it now faces the other way? Never even knew you could do that.
Did you change the pressure plate too? It does seem like you have covered most of the normal reasons for judder.

I have a Marina based kit car that does this, flipping annoying. Only cured by either revving the nuts off it while letting it in, or by letting it in on tickover (can only do this as it is so light) then putting my foot down a bit.
Marinas were renowned for it.

Feel for you, mate.

 

[miktdish]

You say "turned" Do you mean skimmed, or turned round so it now faces the other way? Never even knew you could do that.
<snip>

You can't the front and back have different recesses.
I don't think the OP's first language is English

 

[Stanleysteamer]

You can't the front and back have different recesses.
I don't think the OP's first language is English

I was thinking both those things, thanks for confirming the "turning" issue.
I am now wondering if he did mean that he had it skimmed.
Turning, as in English, is a common word in other languages for turning summat on a lathe.
Sadly I don't know Turkish, except for the fact that it only has one irregular verb!

 

[TurkeyLandy]

You say "turned" Do you mean skimmed, or turned round so it now faces the other way? Never even knew you could do that.
Did you change the pressure plate too? It does seem like you have covered most of the normal reasons for judder.

I have a Marina based kit car that does this, flipping annoying. Only cured by either revving the nuts off it while letting it in, or by letting it in on tickover (can only do this as it is so light) then putting my foot down a bit.
Marinas were renowned for it.

Feel for you, mate.

Turned as in skimmed. As you understood I am Turkish and my English vocabulary about mechanical stuff generally comes from the youtubers that fix cars and Top Gear And yes the pressure plate was changed too.

 

[TurkeyLandy]

I changed the title for it to be more accurate

 

[Stanleysteamer]

If he has had it skimmed then the pressure from the pressure plate would be slightly reduced.
Don't know if that would be enough to cause this though.

 

[Stanleysteamer]

I'm thinking now it might be a good idea to go back to original style master and slave cylinders. Pain in the rear though it would be.

Or else just live with it?
My wife's Citroen C3 Pluriel does this in first and it is a Sensodrive system. I have just modified how I drive it, as I did with the kit car, and we don't even notice it now.

It isn't just something as simple as adjusting the clutch pedal? Or there being a thick mat underneath it?
I have no idea if the clutch pedal is even adjustable.

I do know that on the 300tdi Discovery there is a widget in the system that is supposed to make things smoother. Don't know if this applies to the Defender. But I doubt it as you seem to have a much non-standard actuation system.

 

[marjon]

If he has had it skimmed then the pressure from the pressure plate would be slightly reduced.
Don't know if that would be enough to cause this though.

You need to rethink that stan.
The flywheel is skimmed over the whole face so the relationship between flywheel and clucth parts is the same.

J

 

[Stanleysteamer]

You need to rethink that stan.
The flywheel is skimmed over the whole face so the relationship between flywheel and clucth parts is the same.

J

You are most certainly right.
I suppose I was thinking of peeps in my car club who used to skim bits of their flywheels to lighten them to get better performance, and stuff.

Bit of a "doh" moment there!!

TBH skimming it a few thou won't make much difference to anything. The only thing that could possibly change a tiny amount would be the throw of the thrust bearing but would that matter when declutching? I think this is clutching (ouch) at straws here!

 

[Stanleysteamer]

AhA! Light-bulb moment!!!
What about the bearing/bush in the end of the crankshaft??
Did you change that too?

Click on this if you like:

What is a pilot bushing? · Help Center

 

[Stanleysteamer]

Two other thoughts.
Did you change the release bearing when changing the clutch?

And what condition are your engine and gearbox mountings in?