110 Steering Woes

[Brian_110]

Hi All,

Anyone got any suggestions on why my 2004 TD5 110 is "nervous" on the road? I have explored the forum to death, and am all too aware of Defender Death wobbles and cruddy steering play etc... however when I am driving on A roads I find myself constantly correcting the steering wheel just to stay on the road! There is only minor play in the steering wheel, perhaps an inch each way, but wouldn't think this was enough to make me think I was going to end up in a ditch very soon!! So far I have done the following and am fast running out of ideas:

- Replaced the Steering Box (recon unit but from a reputable supplier)
- New Track Rods
- New Steering Damper
- New tyres all round and appropriately Balanced (256/75 R16 M/T)
- Tracking done (twice!)
- Both Front Swivel Hubs completely rebuilt with new parts
- Panhard Rod Bushes replaced
- Radius Arm Bushes replaced
- New Terrafirma Springs and Shocks all round (standard height)

Before anyone says, this is not my first 110, and I'm not expecting racing car precision, but I have not experienced this behaviour before and would like to find a resolution before it kills me!!! The only thing left I can think of is the Power Steering Pump... the steering is a little on the heavy side, but its nothing obvious...

Any thoughts would be gratefully received as this is now doing my head in!!

Thanks in advance
Brian

 

[the_wolf]

Have you correctly set the swivel preloads?

 

[meego]

Hi All,

Anyone got any suggestions on why my 2004 TD5 110 is "nervous" on the road? I have explored the forum to death, and am all too aware of Defender Death wobbles and cruddy steering play etc... however when I am driving on A roads I find myself constantly correcting the steering wheel just to stay on the road! There is only minor play in the steering wheel, perhaps an inch each way, but wouldn't think this was enough to make me think I was going to end up in a ditch very soon!! So far I have done the following and am fast running out of ideas:

- Replaced the Steering Box (recon unit but from a reputable supplier)
- New Track Rods
- New Steering Damper
- New tyres all round and appropriately Balanced (256/75 R16 M/T)
- Tracking done (twice!)
- Both Front Swivel Hubs completely rebuilt with new parts
- Panhard Rod Bushes replaced
- Radius Arm Bushes replaced
- New Terrafirma Springs and Shocks all round (standard height)

Before anyone says, this is not my first 110, and I'm not expecting racing car precision, but I have not experienced this behaviour before and would like to find a resolution before it kills me!!! The only thing left I can think of is the Power Steering Pump... the steering is a little on the heavy side, but its nothing obvious...

Any thoughts would be gratefully received as this is now doing my head in!!

Thanks in advance
Brian

Was the recon box fitted before or after you encountered the fault ?
From your list I would suspect a faulty PAS box or as Wolf says incorrect preload on the swivels.
You don’t mention the steering rack though. Has that been ruled out ?

 

[Anaconda]

You don’t mention the steering rack though. Has that been ruled out ?

?

 

[Anaconda]

Not sure how the pas pump could affect the road holding.
Did you replace the nuts and bolts in the suspension arms?
Steering column UJs?
Mine doesn't have an inch free play in the steering wheel
Drop arm?
I wouldn't presume a recon box is any good.

 

[meego]

?

?

 

[Anaconda]

?

Steering rack?

 

[meego]

?

Steering rack?

Ah…I see now. I miss spoke and meant column

 

[Brian_110]

Not sure how the pas pump could affect the road holding.
Did you replace the nuts and bolts in the suspension arms?
Steering column UJs?
Mine doesn't have an inch free play in the steering wheel
Drop arm?
I wouldn't presume a recon box is any good.

Yes Nuts & bolts all replaced, I haven't replaced the UJ's but have inspected them and all appear ok. The problem was exactly the same before I started replacing everything... the steering box was the first thing replaced and the problem was the same.

 

[Brian_110]

Have you correctly set the swivel preloads?

I presume this was done when the swivel joints were rebuilt (dangerous to assume I know), either way the problem was the same before and after doing the rebuilds

 

[the_wolf]

Not sure how the pas pump could affect the road holding.
Did you replace the nuts and bolts in the suspension arms?
Steering column UJs?
Mine doesn't have an inch free play in the steering wheel
Drop arm?
I wouldn't presume a recon box is any good.

Unless his UJs are absolutely gubbed I can't see them having so much slack that he's got an inch of play either way. Like yours mine is spot, a slight movement of the steering wheel when driving translates directly to the wheels. If he had the issue before he changed the steering box I can't see if being that, hope he kept his old one if there's nothing wrong with it!
Did he replace CVs? And im assuming he's replaced all TREs on the drag link and track rod (although he doesn't mention the drag link as having been replaced but I assume that's what he meant by track rods)

 

[the_wolf]

I presume this was done when the swivel joints were rebuilt (dangerous to assume I know), either way the problem was the same before and after doing the rebuilds

I wouldn't assume. Also they're really bloody awkward to get right, even Landy mechanics and experienced owners need to play about with it just to get them correct (Christ knows how they done them in the factory). But if I were you I'd double check what the preload currently is as if it's far too loose that will cause it to wander.

 

[Brian_110]

I wouldn't assume. Also they're really bloody awkward to get right, even Landy mechanics and experienced owners need to play about with it just to get them correct (Christ knows how they done them in the factory). But if I were you I'd double check what the preload currently is as if it's far too loose that will cause it to wander.

Stupid question time... how does one check the preload? And what should it be?

 

[the_wolf]

.

Stupid question time... how does one check the preload? And what should it be?

Remove the front wheels, remove the track rod and drag links and using a set of luggage scales check how much it takes to pull the hub lock to lock. What that reading should be seems to be completely different for each motor but you're looking for somewhere between 3-4kg of pull. If it's less then you need to remove shims from the top swivel pin and adjust it to get it correct. More than that and you need to add shims. Britannica Restorations on YouTube did a good video recently of how he works it out and even for him it took a bit of trial and error to get it at a point he was happy. If you don't know what you're doing then take it to a proper Landy garage and ask them to check

 

[Brian_110]

.

Remove the front wheels, remove the track rod and drag links and using a set of luggage scales check how much it takes to pull the hub lock to lock. What that reading should be seems to be completely different for each motor but you're looking for somewhere between 3-4kg of pull. If it's less then you need to remove shims from the top swivel pin and adjust it to get it correct. More than that and you need to add shims. Britannica Restorations on YouTube did a good video recently of how he works it out and even for him it took a bit of trial and error to get it at a point he was happy. If you don't know what you're doing then take it to a proper Landy garage and ask them to check

Thanks for that, thinking it will need to go to someone who knows more than me as some further googling of swivel pins they seem immensely easy to mess up even further!!!

 

[dag019]

As you seem to have replaced all of the steering components already I would echo the do not assume a recon box is a good bax. however I would be also looking to check some of the other components. You say you have replaced the radius arm bushes but have checked the back end a-frame and trailing arms.

My other suggestion as going to be are you sure the rims are true, but I would have thought if you have had them balances with new tyres they would have informed you if they weren't!

 

[Anaconda]

Yes Nuts & bolts all replaced, I haven't replaced the UJ's but have inspected them and all appear ok. The problem was exactly the same before I started replacing everything... the steering box was the first thing replaced and the problem was the same.

That possibly discounts the steering box then, still got the old one?

 

[Anaconda]

Stupid question time... how does one check the preload? And what should it be?

I thought you had rebuilt the swivels already?
Did you replace the drop arm? You might aswell to discount it.
Could you not clamp the drop arm and then see if any play in the steering wheel?

 

[tottot]

If swivel pre load is out then thars your problem.
Note that the 3-4 kg pull recommended above is with the large ball housing seal removed.
It is just a trial and error job swapping shims until set right. Each time the pin bolts have to be done up tight.
I bend the brake pipe bracket out the way for convenience and have done it so many times now that I no longer need a scale and can do it by feel.

 

[the_wolf]

If swivel pre load is out then thars your problem.
Note that the 3-4 kg pull recommended above is with the large ball housing seal removed.
It is just a trial and error job swapping shims until set right. Each time the pin bolts have to be done up tight.
I bend the brake pipe bracket out the way for convenience and have done it so many times now that I no longer need a scale and can do it by feel.

Never been able to find an actual figure with the seal and brake disc on, everyone I read is different. I even asked Britannica Restorations what figure he suggested for it and he said dunno as he's only ever done it on a video without the disc fitted. From what I've been able to figure out though that is roughly what he should be looking for but it is all down to feel and as he isn't experienced and not doing any of the work himself it'll need to be a garage.