P38 EAS issues airloss/self selecting height/height hunting

[RangeRoller dt]

That was while ago, not really changed too much cosmetically and on same tyres. Looks small in photo but not next to another RR.
Been concentrating on engine, new rear shocks and cleaning up chassis/underneath. Other side is not so smooth, many many crumples ...

Any pics of yours, I’d love to see your setup

 

[brianp38dse]

This morning she sat almost perfectly level and the fronts have actually lost some air for once. Every corner was down about 20mm in 12hours. And she cycled the compressor only once while filling the tank from 70psi-full.

Lets hope that it continues to stay this way. Im guessing that an oring eventually seated it self to seal properly. Or maybe the little rubber foot on the bottom of the valves finally found itself a new seat?

I dont know what happened... but shes working well and Iam glad I dont have to remove the valveblock again!

If your tank is loosing pressure over night some thing is leaking on the tank side check the pipe that feeds it we have had a few lately with holes from leaky exhausts,
The eas will level down but not up.

 

[P38Rover]

If your tank is loosing pressure over night some thing is leaking on the tank side check the pipe that feeds it we have had a few lately with holes from leaky exhausts,
The eas will level down but not up.

I know that she leaks a little. I believe the only location of the the leak is in the compression joint to my gauge fitting for my pressure gauge. Iam waiting to fix it until I decide whether or not I want the gauge inside the cabin or in the engine bay..

Otherwise she rises just fine from access to wade first thing in the morning.

Thanks for the reply

That was while ago, not really changed too much cosmetically and on same tyres. Looks small in photo but not next to another RR.
Been concentrating on engine, new rear shocks and cleaning up chassis/underneath. Other side is not so smooth, many many crumples ...
View attachment 186886 View attachment 186888 View attachment 186887


Any pics of yours, I’d love to see your setup

I like that you sprayed the underbody with.. bed liner? Looks nice and durable.

 

[P38Rover]

Here ya go.. She was out last weekend thrashing the backroads doing a little EAS testing ..She was working great!

 

[RangeRoller dt]

They are nice in red and the plate! They is skinny wheels, guessing yours is MY1998+ with TC. Needs more mud

Is Bedliner an American idium for stonechip??
I like the matt and should be hardwearing, same colour as your guttering/snorkel

 

[P38Rover]

Haha It had been almost two years since she had her last wash! And she only got a wash because I wanted to assess the true extent of the damage to the exterior over the years. So I made sure to get a nice shot of her before she gets all dirty again...She usually likes it dirty...

 

[P38Rover]

They are nice in red and the plate! They is skinny wheels, guessing yours is 1995+ with TC. Needs more mud

Is Bedliner an American idium for stonechip??
I like the matt and should be hardwearing, same colour as your guttering/snorkel

Shes a 98' with front and rear TC..the tires are 265/75/16 I didnt want to go too wide because I wanted to be able to turn . Shes been working really nice and has a nice footprint when aired down.

I think bedliner and stonechip would be the same stuff. Bedliner is the stuff they spray in a pickup truck's bed to prevent wear.

 

[Grrrrrr]

Haha It had been almost two years since she had her last wash! Only because I wanted to assess the true extent of the damage to the exterior over the years. So I made sure to get a nice shot of her before she gets all dirty again...She usually likes it dirty...

View attachment 186910

Nice. Make sure you get all the mud out of the rad and intercooler after wading. The stuff bakes on like ceramic!

 

[P38Rover]

Update:

All corners are lower in the morning once again..the fronts were down a lot but I forgot to remove the delay timer last night so maybe she self adjusted to that position.

Also something isnt working correctly. I ran through the tests again in Wammers technical article. I definitely have a small diaphragm leak or a solenoid leak because while the compressor is running she builds up some pressure at the exhaust port. Also shes back to dancing again. 3-5x from 60psi-full..

Have people had problems with the aftermarket diaphragms? I bought a cheap kit on ebay to refurbish all my components but I also just noticed a Dunlop diaphragm refurb kit STC1803. Should I try to refit a new OEM diaphragm? All this talk about how fragile they are, I feel like it would be a waste of time to refit my old factory one.

Also I noticed that the UP dance usually happens right after the compressor is started when a bunch of clicking is going on inside the valveblock.

So while Iam already in the correct height, she will stop the compressor and adjust down 3-4 clicks, then start the compressor, a bunch of clicks (sometimes 10+ )will happen and during this time the car starts to raise slowly with the clicking. Soon after the clicking stops and with the compressor still running, she will start to incrementally rise until unhappy. Then she will stop the compressor and click down 3-4x.. and repeat until tank is full.

Also I may have noticed that she actually went down a couple mm then immediately back up with the compressor ON and running. I believe that this should NEVER happen. Any guesses on what might be intermittently failing? I have tried to watch for it again but it doesn't happen often for sure.

Thanks for all your help again! Really looking forward to getting this fixed.

 

[Grrrrrr]

Start with the problems you know about. My experience is that cheap is usually a mistake with these cars unless you know exactly what you are looking for.

Clicking and so forth sounds like bad connection somewhere. The usual places are the connector behind the a-post but also the ones in the driver pack plug inside the EAS box.

 

[P38Rover]

Start with the problems you know about. My experience is that cheap is usually a mistake with these cars unless you know exactly what you are looking for.

Clicking and so forth sounds like bad connection somewhere. The usual places are the connector behind the a-post but also the ones in the driver pack plug inside the EAS box.

I 100% agree...I just ordered a new factory Dunlop diaphragm rebuild kit; and some new collets because mine are looking old. Well see how it goes..

 

[Datatek]

Start with the problems you know about. My experience is that cheap is usually a mistake with these cars unless you know exactly what you are looking for.

Clicking and so forth sounds like bad connection somewhere. The usual places are the connector behind the a-post but also the ones in the driver pack plug inside the EAS box.

The clicking simply means that the solenoids are being activated, the sound is normal, what may not be normal is when the clicking is happening.

 

[P38Rover]

Update:

The factory Dunlop diaphragm rebuild kit arrived this morning. It was no doubt much higher quality than the first aftermarket one that I had installed. The aftermarket one barely created a seal between the valve body and nearly fell out with gravity upon inspection..And the new one I had to stuff it in there to get it to fit...Diaphragm no longer leaks.

I also tore down all the suspect solenoids/valves. The inlet valve,both fronts and also the diaphragm solenoid; they all looked really good..No pinching or misaligned orings or otherwise. Everything looked perfect.

Unfortunately, besides fixing the diaphragm leak, changing out the collets and bashing the fender back in where the compressor housing was touching the body causing lots of vibration...She still dances..and not only that, but she will raise the fronts 100mm-125mm in 20-30 mins while not in use.

FML I can never have it easy...I’m gonna buy some new NRVs...when those come in I will swap NRVs and a spare unknown condition driver pack, also I will try to swap the little rubber footings on the inside of valves... Other than that, I dont know what else to try...any other ideas?

 

[Datatek]

Update:

The factory Dunlop diaphragm rebuild kit arrived this morning. It was no doubt much higher quality than the first aftermarket one that I had installed. The aftermarket one barely created a seal between the valve body and nearly fell out with gravity upon inspection..And the new one I had to stuff it in there to get it to fit...Diaphragm no longer leaks.

I also tore down all the suspect solenoids/valves. The inlet valve,both fronts and also the diaphragm solenoid; they all looked really good..No pinching or misaligned orings or otherwise. Everything looked perfect.

Unfortunately, besides fixing the diaphragm leak, changing out the collets and bashing the fender back in where the compressor housing was touching the body causing lots of vibration...She still dances..and not only that, but she will raise the fronts 100mm-125mm in 20-30 mins while not in use.

FML I can never have it easy...I’m gonna buy some new NRVs...when those come in I will swap NRVs and a spare unknown condition driver pack, also I will try to swap the little rubber footings on the inside of valves... Other than that, I dont know what else to try...any other ideas?

It's definitely the front rising and not the rear dropping? Because if the rear drops, weight transfer will cause the front to rise.
It should not be possible for any corner to rise if the valves are closed, for both front corners to rise something very odd is going on. It is worth trying the driver pack, but I cannot honestly see it operating 2 valves due to a fault, there should be no power there with the ignition off.
A second hand valve block off the internet would not cost a lot.

 

[wammers]

Update:

The factory Dunlop diaphragm rebuild kit arrived this morning. It was no doubt much higher quality than the first aftermarket one that I had installed. The aftermarket one barely created a seal between the valve body and nearly fell out with gravity upon inspection..And the new one I had to stuff it in there to get it to fit...Diaphragm no longer leaks.

I also tore down all the suspect solenoids/valves. The inlet valve,both fronts and also the diaphragm solenoid; they all looked really good..No pinching or misaligned orings or otherwise. Everything looked perfect.

Unfortunately, besides fixing the diaphragm leak, changing out the collets and bashing the fender back in where the compressor housing was touching the body causing lots of vibration...She still dances..and not only that, but she will raise the fronts 100mm-125mm in 20-30 mins while not in use.

FML I can never have it easy...I’m gonna buy some new NRVs...when those come in I will swap NRVs and a spare unknown condition driver pack, also I will try to swap the little rubber footings on the inside of valves... Other than that, I dont know what else to try...any other ideas?

Change NRVs by all means but i don't think they are your problem. More likely the inlet valve leaking air from tank into solenoid gallery and air forcing past front solenoid valve seals. Solenoid seals can be removed with a small pick. They have a pull tang on them. Carefully cut the tang off flush and fit them tang end showing. But before you do that measure intrusion into solenoid and length of seal, fit small washers to space seal out and give a 1/16" protrusion past end of solenoid shaft. Use small amounts of silicone grease when refitting seals to help them slip in.

 

[P38Rover]

It's definitely the front rising and not the rear dropping? Because if the rear drops, weight transfer will cause the front to rise.
It should not be possible for any corner to rise if the valves are closed, for both front corners to rise something very odd is going on. It is worth trying the driver pack, but I cannot honestly see it operating 2 valves due to a fault, there should be no power there with the ignition off.
A second hand valve block off the internet would not cost a lot.

I really dont think its a driver pack either; sometimes I get some weird behavior while driving but I think the root cause may be the leaking into the front bags. In fact, that may well be my problem with the dancing also.

To check for leaks, I currently have her parked up for the night in wade height with the delay relay removed. For the last few hours she has sat exactly where I left her. However earlier today she would definitely raise the fronts while stationary and ignition off; in a very short amount of time. But this has sortve been the trend with her. Some days she works nice and some days shes cranky. After much thought, now I really think it is a solenoid seal, because that is the only thing that is not new anymore and is also a path of high pressure air from the tank.

HaHa, I actually do have a second valve block already and it has reluctantly crossed my mind too many times today that I might have to try to rebuild the spare block and give that a try.

Any recommendation on where to get a known good valveblock rebuild oring kit? I had used the all inclusive X8R kit on ebay.. The diaphragm is confirmed garbage...who knows about the orings...

 

[P38Rover]

Change NRVs by all means but i don't think they are your problem. More likely the inlet valve leaking air from tank into solenoid gallery and air forcing past front solenoid valve seals. Solenoid seals can be removed with a small pick. They have a pull tang on them. Carefully cut the tang off flush and fit them tang end showing. But before you do that measure intrusion into solenoid and length of seal, fit small washers to space seal out and give a 1/16" protrusion past end of solenoid shaft. Use small amounts of silicone grease when refitting seals to help them slip in.

Nice, thankyou for the procedure. I will definitely be trying this.

 

[P38Rover]

Parked in wade height overnight. She did not drop or raise, not 1 mm in any direction. But I also depleted much of the air in the tank going to wade height shortly before turning her off for the night. During the day today while the air tank is full she would raise the fronts quite quickly when I made a couple quick stops. I cant notice it going up but when I come back to the car(5-20mins) she is no doubt raised in front, both fronts. Also, double confirmed because she only adjusts and levels both fronts down when I start the car.

I have her currently parked in normal, with the relay removed, and the air tank is full. Well see what happens tonite..

Also if the inlet valve is leaking air into the gallery. Why is it consistently only the fronts that raise? Shouldn't they all raise equally? Or maybe it is possible that I have 2 bad valve seals that just happen to be both in front positions... Or do the fronts have a common gallery not shared with the rears? I just dont know...

Does anyone know of any test to confirm or deny full function of the NRVs vs valve seals? I soppose not because they basically do the same thing...

Thanks for all the help and replies! I feel like were getting close...

 

[Datatek]

Parked in wade height overnight. She did not drop or raise, not 1 mm in any direction. But I also depleted much of the air in the tank going to wade height shortly before turning her off for the night. During the day today while the air tank is full she would raise the fronts quite quickly when I made a couple quick stops. I cant notice it going up but when I come back to the car(5-20mins) she is no doubt raised in front, both fronts. Also, double confirmed because she only adjusts and levels both fronts down when I start the car.

I have her currently parked in normal, with the relay removed, and the air tank is full. Well see what happens tonite..

Also if the inlet valve is leaking air into the gallery. Why is it consistently only the fronts that raise? Shouldn't they all raise equally? Or maybe it is possible that I have 2 bad valve seals that just happen to be both in front positions... Or do the fronts have a common gallery not shared with the rears? I just dont know...

Does anyone know of any test to confirm or deny full function of the NRVs vs valve seals? I soppose not because they basically do the same thing...

Thanks for all the help and replies! I feel like were getting close...

Are you absolutely sure that it's not the rears dropping because that can give the impression of the fronts rising and the front would adjust down before the rears rose in that situation. There is a common gallery for front and rear.
If the valve seals were leaking, and the air tank is empty you would thing that the fronts would drop. I suppose the correct springs are in place on the solenoid plungers?

 

[wammers]

Parked in wade height overnight. She did not drop or raise, not 1 mm in any direction. But I also depleted much of the air in the tank going to wade height shortly before turning her off for the night. During the day today while the air tank is full she would raise the fronts quite quickly when I made a couple quick stops. I cant notice it going up but when I come back to the car(5-20mins) she is no doubt raised in front, both fronts. Also, double confirmed because she only adjusts and levels both fronts down when I start the car.

I have her currently parked in normal, with the relay removed, and the air tank is full. Well see what happens tonite..

Also if the inlet valve is leaking air into the gallery. Why is it consistently only the fronts that raise? Shouldn't they all raise equally? Or maybe it is possible that I have 2 bad valve seals that just happen to be both in front positions... Or do the fronts have a common gallery not shared with the rears? I just dont know...

Does anyone know of any test to confirm or deny full function of the NRVs vs valve seals? I soppose not because they basically do the same thing...

Thanks for all the help and replies! I feel like were getting close...

There are three NRVs. NRV1 holds high pressure air in the tank. NRV2 prevents air from bags flowing into tank if solenoid valves are opened if tank is empty. NRV3 prevents high pressure air from compressor flowing into solenoid gallery via exhaust valve when compressor is running. None of these can cause the fronts to rise when ignition is off. Only thing that can cause that is a leaking inlet valve solenoid allowing high pressure air to flow from tank into solenoid gallery and be forced past front solenoid valves. Front valves are used a lot more often than rear valves and are more likely to be worn.