Red or Blue Coolant???

[wilf1234]

I stuck a load of blue antifreeze in my TD5 earlier today only to be told by one expert that it's a big no no - he reckons Discos must only have the more expensive Red coolant due to the corrosive effect of the blue on the aluminium head.

So, off i trot to buy the red coolant only to be told that he was talking tosh.

who's right????

also - what's the general opinion r.e my disco - it's a 2000 Td5 auto with 70k on the clock and it's started losing half a top up tank of coolant every 7-800 miles - there are no obivous leaks so is it likley to be the rad or the head gasket??? (slightly worried as i'm off to the French Alps on Friday with 3 kids in the back!!)

cheers

Wilf

 

[slob]

ffs ally heads have bin around fer a lot longer than red coolant. i take it yer mean that OAT stuff?

ask daft he's a eggspurt on OAT

 

[yella]

i thought that were OAP he were an egg spurt on

 

[dooroy]

I have an 01 Td5 with 170K on the clock and it loses about half litre or so of coolant fairly regularly .
Took some searching but tracked it to the top nearside corner of the main rad - because of its location it was hard to spot . Bought a new rad last Nov but still haven't fitted it - believe it or not .
I found that by leaving the expansion cap a tad loose the level barely dropped over hundreds of miles . At this time of year it was a way of keeping the pressure in the rad down .
I use the red (OAT) antifreeze as I read somewhere that if you mixed the red and blue they could react and produce a jelly like mix - which wouldn't be good for coolant flow . Didn't want to find out whether this was true or not even though the OAT is only available here from the main dlr at about €17 per litre - I can buy 5L of blue from the motor factors for about the same .

 

[battenberg]

I replaced the coolant on my TD5 after putting a hole in the radiator...The Rave CD's were very particular about the coolant..

Red/Blue??? the stuff I used was glow in the dark yellow!!


From Rave:

Anti-freeze
Use Havoline Extended Life Coolant (XLC), or any
ethylene glycol based anti-freeze (containing no
methanol) with only Organic Acid Technology
corrosion inhibitors, to protect the cooling system
CAUTION: No other anti-freeze should be used
with Havoline Extended Life Coolant.
The cooling system should be drained, flushed and
refilled with the correct amount of anti-freeze solution
at the intervals given on the Service Maintenance
Check Sheet.
After filling with anti-freeze solution, attach a warning
label to a prominent position on the vehicle stating
the type of anti-freeze contained in the cooling
system to ensure that the correct type is used for
topping-up.

The overall anti-freeze concentration should not fall,
by volume, below 50% to ensure that the anti-corrosion
properties of the coolant are maintained.
Anti-freeze concentrations greater than 60% are not
recommended as cooling efficiency will be impaired.
The following recommended quantities of anti-freeze
will provide frost protection to -48C (-53F):

TD5
Concentration 50%
Amount of Anti-freeze 4 litres

 

[Pikey]

Yep ask Sirus about the colour of the coolant in the Disco I sold him. That was Glow in the dark yellow as well.

 

[Pikey]

I found that by leaving the expansion cap a tad loose the level barely dropped over hundreds of miles . At this time of year it was a way of keeping the pressure in the rad down.

The whole idea of pressurising the coolant system is to raise the boiling point of the fluid in the system. The lower the pressure the lower the boiling point and the higher the pressure the hotter the fluid can get before it starts to boil. If your system isn't pressurised then there is a far far greater chance of cooking the engine if you get caught in traffic.

 

[Pikey]

also - what's the general opinion r.e my disco - it's a 2000 Td5 auto with 70k on the clock and it's started losing half a top up tank of coolant every 7-800 miles - there are no obivous leaks so is it likley to be the rad or the head gasket??? (slightly worried as i'm off to the French Alps on Friday with 3 kids in the back!!)

cheers

Wilf

If your losing fluid with no obvious leaks (have you looked with the engine hot and still running. Use a torch to find the steam) then there is a possibility that you have a faulty head gasket and the water is escaping into the exhaust and passing out the end of the pipe as steam. I'd have it checked before you drive to the Alps.

 

[disco_steve]

Mine's a pinkish colour (red) and still the original (changing this summer main service)

 

[dooroy]

I know that upping the pressure increases the boiling point and maybe this would be even more important if going to higher elevations as atmospheric pressure decreases the higher you go .
I'm fairly new to Td5's but up to this I 've had 300Tdi's and 2 years ago I advised my brother to remove the viscous fan during the winter which he did . However when summer came he didn't bother putting it back and to my amazement he got through the summer with no problems despite spending quite a bit of time stuck in city traffic - having driven 30 mls or so beforehand so everything was nicely warmed up. I read on some forum that a cooling system designed to cross the Sahara would - barring leaks etc- have no difficulty keeping it's cool here even in Summer , and the above would bear this out .
Regarding the loss of coolant from the Td5 I had to remove a lot of cowling etc before I tracked the leak down - even when hot there was no sign of steam ; the only sign when I got in close was the orangey deposit .

 

[Pikey]

I know that upping the pressure increases the boiling point and maybe this would be even more important if going to higher elevations as atmospheric pressure decreases the higher you go .
I'm fairly new to Td5's but up to this I 've had 300Tdi's and 2 years ago I advised my brother to remove the viscous fan during the winter which he did .

The issue isn't whether a landy can run with out it's viscous fan or not the problem is that if you depressurise the system you run the risk of the coolant boiling. where another landy with the expansion cap on doing the exact same job wouldn't boil because of the increased pressure. If it boils you'll kill the engine. Also cooling systems are designed to run under pressure and theres a chance that some waterways won't get enough water thru them if theres no back pressure to force the water thru. I'd have no problem advising some one to remove their fan. You'd have to be an idiot to depressurise the system by releasing the expansion cap, and driving it like that long term.. Given that the OP is going to the Alps on Friday do you still think it's a good idea to release the expansion cap.

 

[dooroy]

I was acknowledging in my post that keeping the system pressure up was even more important if going to higher elevations due to the reduction in atmospheric pressure as you climb. The idea of leaving the cap slightly loose was only a suggestion that could help reduce the amount of coolant loss on a temporary basis - if there is a leak in the system you are losing pressure anyway , even if the cap is fully tightened . In the case of the Tdi for example the level of the coolant is critical due to the elevated position of the water pump in the system.
IMHO setting out on such a trip ( to the Alps) would require all systems to be functioning at 100% efficiency.
A friend of mine once had a VW Jetta dsl which would lose a lot of coolant with the cap fully tightened. Solution (suggested by guess who ): tighten cap fully . bring engine up to normal operating temp , loosen cap very slowly until you heard a slight hiss. Leave it at that . Car in use on a daily basis for 5 years , including pulling trailer etc and was topped up about once a month - half litre or so . Some idiots would try anything - and even get away with it sometimes .

 

[disco_steve]

I was acknowledging in my post that keeping the system pressure up was even more important if going to higher elevations due to the reduction in atmospheric pressure as you climb. .

I wouldn't think a 'reduction' in atmospheric pressure would really be an issue . . . unless you're planning on driving up the 'Eiger' or 'Mont Blanc'

Atompspheric pressure with respect to 'mean' sea level is generally refered to as '1 BAR' (14.7psi) as you climb, you are quite correct, it reduces . . . at an altitude above mean sea level of 5,486 metres (18,000ft) it has reduced by 50%, and at 8,376 metres (27,480ft) it is still at 25%. i.e 3.67 psi !!

The real effect is to effectively reduce the boiling temperature of the water (in your rad) to below 100 deg C (water will 'boil' at approximately 5 deg C lower for each 1,500 metres (5000 ft) of increase in altitude)

However, and here's the conundrum, with each (approx) 1,000ft temprature will decrease by approx 2 deg C

Therefore if you're driving over a 3,000 metre high mountain pass, the water may well have a boiling point of 90 deg C, but the outside air temp will generally be 6 deg C lower than at sea level . . . .

Unless you're going over the Timmelsjoch, Passo del Rombo, (el. 8232 ft./2509 m.) high mountain pass, the link through the Alps along the border between Austria and Italy. ????

I don't think you really need to worry, othert than keep an eye on the engine temp, and carry some extra water

 

[slob]

I wouldn't think a 'reduction' in atmospheric pressure would really be an issue . . . unless you're planning on driving up the 'Eiger' or 'Mont Blanc'

Atompspheric pressure with respect to 'mean' sea level is generally refered to as '1 BAR' (14.7psi) as you climb, you are quite correct, it reduces, but . . . at an altitude above mean sea level of 5,486 metres (18,000ft) it has reduced by 50%, and at 8,376 metres (27,480ft) it is still at 25%. i.e 3.67 psi !!

The rea effect would be to reduce the boiling temperature of water to below 100 deg C, water will 'boil' at approximately 5 deg C lower for each 1,500 metres (5000 ft) of increase in altitude.

However, and here's the conundrum, with each (approx) 1,000ft temprature will decrease by approx 2 deg C

Therefore if you're driving over a 3,000 metre high mountain pass, the water may well have a boiling point of 90 deg C, but the outside air temp will generally be 6 deg C lower than at sea level . . . .

Unless you're going over the Timmelsjoch, Italian: Passo del Rombo, (el. 8232 ft./2509 m.) high mountain pass the link through the Ötztal Alps along the current border between Austria and Italy. ????

I don't think you really need to worry, othert than keep an eye on the engine temp, and carry some extra water

thats all very well but does the heat produced by the engine drop as yer climb?
also as yer go higher yer oxygen content of the air will drop so yule be running lean which will increase the temp at which yer injun will be running.

therefore yule end up with..
a lower boiling point
an engine running hotter than normal

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

with only Organic Acid Technology[/SIZE]
corrosion inhibitors, to protect the cooling system
CAUTION: No other anti-freeze should be used
with Havoline Extended Life Coolant.


TD5
Concentration 50%
Amount of Anti-freeze 4 litres

Having only just read this fred (yu bastid, Yella - Uncle Charlesy is the OAP - not me . The important bit above is only O.A.T (which is usually RED in colour) should be used on a TD5.

 

[disco_steve]

Depends . . . on LR's with an ECU, it will be monitoring the air/fuel mix ratio and also reducing the amount of fuel to attempt compensate for the reducing 'density of air'

The actual amount of Oxygen in air ALWAYS remains proportionally the same at approx 21% . . it's the atmospheric pressure which drops, this is not normally a problem below about 8,000ft, above that altitude and you would suffering from Altitude sickness . . a blinding headache initially, which would make driving difficult !!!

Last year in the French Alps, I drove my Disco up to an altitude of just over 2,000 metres (6,550ft) and was also towing me van, and didn't really notice a loss of performance . . . so the ECU etc was obviously doing a good job !!!

 

[disco_steve]

Having only just read this fred (yu bastid, Yella - Uncle Charlesy is the OAP - not me . The important bit above is only O.A.T (which is usually RED in colour) should be used on a TD5.

Hey MHM, keep up will ya, we is ok wiv THAT, were up on top of mountains and boiling and heat and lack of air an .. an ... ovvr tech stuff NOW

 

[slob]

dunt really matter as its still bonkers to run with yer cap orf or slack except in emergencies. they int designed to run like that especially with a lowered boiling point and we wint even mention the likelyhood of coolant spillage or lose through expansion.
lots of folk have dun it to limited losses through a small leak but most of these folk would have repaired it at the earliest oppurtunity and not set orf on a journey with a cooling fault

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

i sed i only just red it, ffs. - an who cares about discos gettin altitude sickness anyway?

 

[ROY_H]

We're talking 2 grand or more of engine here and you're talking about putting supermarket economy anti-freeze in! Surely the few extra quid the proper stuff costs is worth it!!