1994 Defender 200 TDI - Q Plate.

[RV6A]

Good evening,

I’m new on here although I’ve owned Land Rovers for many years.

I currently have a 90 Defender County. It’s a late 200TDI as it has a very high engine number. It’s one of the cleanest and straightest I’ve seen with only 55,000 miles.

It is a right hand drive export model for the Channel Islands and I’m pretty sure it’s 1994 and just before the introduction of the 300’s, as it has rear discs and a number of other points that date it to 1994.

I know the vehicle was exported to Jersey as new in 1994 and then brought back to the mainland in 2001 and that’s when it had its first DVLA registration on a Q plate.

I know it was registered at the old DVLA Office in Worcester in 2001, but as that office is now closed, there is no information available from Swansea.

I’m also led to believe that whoever registered it messed up the process and it was then given a Q plate.

I know Q Plate regulations inside out and am aware that usually it’s a Q for life, unless additional information is provided. However, I feel sure that I could demonstrate to the DVLA that it qualifies for an age related plate by examination by an expert.

In fact one of the DVLA officers told me that if i can produce proof of its year of manufacture, they will issue a new chassis number and age related plate.

I have all the information as far back as 2001, previous keepers etc.but unfortunately nothing from before.

Jersey DVLA couldn’t help without a chassis number.

I’ve even asked Gaydon if they could help with engine numbers either side of mine to date it and maybe find. a Chassis number close to it, but their response was that without VIN they can’t help.

I would like to get an age related plate, as it’s in excellent condition and I intend keeping it for my 7 year old son.

My question is: is there anyone on here who has experience of this or anyone who could assist with dating a producing that information for DVLA?

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

[Kev12]

So is the VIN plate missing? Have you crawled under and had a good look for the stamp on the chassis too? You may need a wire brush to find it

 

[Hicap phill]

Few questions.
Have you any paperwork for the export or import? You could restart the registration again.
I have had old motors changed for the year built after military use but not from a Q

To get a general year look on all glass for a year date.
Alpine windows & small glass will have this. Match to the doors & you get an approx year.forget the windscreen as it may be changed.

As long as the axles/gearbox not been changed you may be able to get numbers checked.

Good luck

 

[RV6A]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

It has a new VIN starting SAB issued 2001 with the Q plate.

I’ve crawled all over it and it looks like the old SAL VIN has been obliterated by burning/welding it out.

It’s also not a rebuild it all original with a steel chassis

 

[RV6A]

I’ve no paperwork for the import as I didn’t do it and I believe the chap who did has now passed away. I wrote to him as being the first keeper from 2001.

The axle and gearbox are all original and the glass dates it as 1994.

Any suggestions on linking gearbox number, axle and engine numbers?

 

[Kev12]

I think you may be out of luck without the original VIN, unless any of the Jersey paperwork mentions it, or their DVLA can cross refernce it from the original reg no. Also maybe LR would possibly have it against the original reg (long shot tho)

 

[RV6A]

I’ve been down all these roads already without success.

LR have been particularly unhelpful.

There can’t have been many Coniston green Defenders on the export line for Jersey in 1994.

It was a case of the computer says no!

Is thee a link in to JLR for help on this site?

 

[Hicap phill]

Without a chassis stamped number you have no chance with dvla.
When it got the Q dvla would have checked the numbers to see if stolen but cannot guarantee the year of build.

 

[flat]

Why/when was the vin obliterated?

Seems a weird thing to have happened.

 

[RV6A]

The problem is that I’m dealing with people behind desks and on computers who offer little practical help or will go the extra mile to assist me. It’s all in the too difficult to do tray.

They must have records of the initial application to register it in UK, but all I get is: “If you give us the chassis number we’ll take a look”. I can’t give them that, so we go around in circles....

I’ve asked for the records from DVLA Worcester and the reply I get is that it’s now closed and they don’t know how to get them.

Very frustrating!

 

[RV6A]

I presume the old SAL VIN went when the new SAB VIN was issued. I don’t know as I didn’t own it in 2001.

It’s been registered in UK since 2001 gets MOT’d and is a straight motor.

It just appears that whoever registered it either wanted to hide its true age or messed the paperwork up when importing it. More likely the latter as I was told this by a previous keeper.

 

[Rougharse Racing]

Without a Land Rover VIN you do not have a snowball in hell's chance of getting an age related plate.

 

[lynall]

Have you noticed the year stamp on the chassis rails themselves, there are more than one?

 

[RV6A]

Year stamp on chassis rails?! I’ve not heard of those...... googling now. If you can assist with where I may find them please.

Also if I find axle numbers, gear box numbers, should that bring me any additional information as to the original chassis number?

 

[RV6A]

Hi Rougharse.... Totally agree with you there, however, with all the information to date about it starting it’s life in Jersey and being exactly the same vehicle that left the LR plant in 1994 that was returned, imported and registered on the mainland in 2001, there must be some way of tracing its original VIN.

 

[lynall]

Year stamp on chassis rails?! I’ve not heard of those...... googling now. If you can assist with where I may find them please.

Also if I find axle numbers, gear box numbers, should that bring me any additional information as to the original chassis number?

No help with the vin at all, but the stamp shows what year it was made, my 93 has er 93 or 93l stamped on it cant remember which!
Its all good info towards an age related plate.
Mates 93 snatch had the same markings.

Iirc it was on the outside face of the chassis both sides roughly under the seats?

Edit Ive just googled and cant find diddly!

 

[Hicap phill]

Year dates should be on brackets.
Dvla will still ignore these.
Some LR clubs can trace gearboxes /axles/engine numbers which can give you chassis info to go to dvla again.

My motor was a special build for the gas company & I found information/build behind the drivers door card

Have you thought of just removing the vin plate & having this inspected again ?

 

[RV6A]

I'd like to get an age plate the honest way, but that lot in Swansea are so difficult to deal with that it makes you wonder which way to go.

I get one chap who was extremely helpful, then the next suggested I'd stolen a Defender to build this one!

The old SAL VIN doesn't seem to be on the chassis at all. I've examined the chassis in the correct location and had the MOT guys root around and it can't be found. It looks like it was burnt/welded out and the new SABT number issued.

Could there be a second location for the VIN on the chassis?

None of the mechanics, MOT people or Landy aficionados can understand why it is on a Q plate, as it's all original and hasn't had any replacement parts, which would indicate that the first owner in the UK mainland messed up the paperwork when registering it as an import, or wanted to disguise its age by having a Q plate.

Unfortunately as Worceter DVLA office is closed (they did the approval in October 2001) and Swansea can't locate the paperwork.

There is no ID plate in the windscreen and the new VIN is in the engine bay on a plate.

I think need to try and get as much information from the component parts - gearbox, axles, engine number etc to try and move forward and get an expert to examine it and prepare a report.

Is there anyone who can do that? I don't mind paying for a service it it helps me with the DVLA.

The engine is definitely for a defender 200Tdi as its 11L, and it appears to be the original 200Tdi engine fitted from new and not a replacement one. It is also a late batch 11L engine as the number is quite a high for the model indicating 1993/94.

The rear discs would put it at the end of the 200 Tdi line as the 300 was about to be launched.

It is also a right hand drive export model as it has things like a gear box oil temperature warning light, so I thought JLR may be able to assist - No chance! ....and Gaydon will only work on chassis numbers, so no luck there.

It is in Coniston Green and is in fantastic condition for its age with only 57,000 miles, so it's a 'keepie' for my 7 year old son, so he can suffer with Land Rovers as I have!

Finally and unfortunately, the chap who imported and first registered it with the DVLA passed away some years ago, so unless Derek Acorah has got any better at talking to spirits, I'm snookered on that route as well...

 

[lynall]

Cyl head also has a casting date on it, drivers side Iirc, of course it may have been changed.

 

[RV6A]

All original...